TV presenter gets death sentence for 'sorcery'

If the Saudia Arabia people go ahead with this, I imagine that they will, when they die, be sent to burn in fire in hell. The man is not a 'witch', and there is no place on earth for the twisted corrupted Saudia Arabians (with great respect to good Saudia Arabians). They can avoid this certain fate, if they change their ways! Or, they can do these things, and go to bed knowing that they will be sent to hell. I imagine the duration of the fire that they burn in is variable, before such people are sent to "black hole" never to set foot again.




[edit on 20-3-2010 by TheDailyPlanet]

Originally posted by Josephus23
reply to post by dzonatas

 

Nothing can happen to us in a court of law unless 12 of our peers say that it is acceptable, but if people do not know that they have this power, then do they have any power?

I don't think they have juries like the U.S. has, but they have judges that think they are more powerful their appeals courts. From the article:

El Khansa tells CNN that the Mecca appeals court then sent the case back to the original court for reconsideration, stipulating that all charges made against Sibat needed to be verified and that he should be given a chance to repent.

On March 10, judges in Medina upheld their initial verdict, meaning Sibat is once again sentenced to be executed.

"The Medina court refused the sentence of the appeals court," said El Khansa, adding her client will appeal the verdict once more.

Im sorry, I have been reading ATS for several years, and MANY MANY times, I have wanted to say something, specifically on some of the posts in the past 2 months (and I read all pages of threads on most posts), when someone is directly denying evidence or I can tell that they are deliberately avoiding standing facts, so I guess now is as good a time as any to make my first post. I just wanted to reply to this: "MISS CLEO, RUNNNNNNNNN ! ! !"

reply to post by dzonatas


well this i think goes back to the principle of karma.
if you deny someone else freedom of religion, you essentially deny yourself the same freedom. of course, this is all set within the context of civil law, so we don't end up with religions who have illegal practices as part of their rituals.
which in the case of a religious state, civil law is religious law and religious law is civil law, so they can make it illegal if it doesn't fit their religious viewpoint.

in the usa, it takes alot more than just some religious viewpoints to get a moral or religious standard codified into law. the decision making process is argued on the pretext of morality, and there's where people of different religious viewpoints clash.

talking about the future does not equal sorcery, automatically. if it could be somehow construed to be "seeing beyond," i dare say there are many who speak of future events in saudi arabia, and they are not seen as sorcerers. i wonder, does anyone know if they believe in the stock market?

when it all boils down to it, it's all in the pretext. such as:

1) was the person invoking the unapproved (by saudi civil law)
areas of the spirit realm to get answers?
2) or even more precisely, was the person using ritual to get answers that are not in keeping with the civil laws of saudi arabia?
3) or was the person a different religion, invoking prophetical futures that cast a dim light on saudi arabia (in which case it can be construed as an act of terrorism against the country's peaceful functioning)

reply to post by undo


That dragon can most certainly be ridden, perpetually eating itself at infinite speed. After that, just being. We already intuitively (sometimes hidden under layers) can be in symbiosis. The serpent is being revealed, and therefore rendered impotent for harm, not only in individuals, but worldwide. Amen. He he. Without a rigid self-definition of me inside. Rather an unfolding. A-me-n. He he. It was meant to net us all, to be fishers of men. To the extent that if we are corrupting the universe, we are put in bondage. We do not corrupt, we have our hands untied. If we are not an adversary, adding unnecessary verses, then our hands are untied. If we do not love, then we will not be loved; the universe will sever us. Of course, forgiveness in a very real sense is a way beyond, but all of these words maybe be taken softly,as they do no suffice to reveal what it is I speak of. That is an awareness that comes through the individual souls choices and beliefs and actions. Not licking the label, for it is poisonous. Rather allowing oneself to flourish.

[edit on 20-3-2010 by orwellianunenlightenment]

Incredible...It's like me, an average French, going on a pligrimage to Rome and getting arrested for being a humorist or cartoonist or something that the Church didn't like?
The hardcore wahabi ('version' of Islamic faith like sunnis and chiites) living in saudi arabia are worse than the ones the US are fighting in AFghanistan. The only thing is that they have OIL so they have a nearly eternal pass whenit comes to taking action against them. The democracy-lovers we all are have to face it : we say nothing OR we condemn and face a 500% growth in the oil prices. your pick

[edit on 20/3/10 by MattMulder]

Originally posted by undo
if you deny someone else freedom of religion, you essentially deny yourself the same freedom.

Well said.

in the usa, it takes alot more than just some religious viewpoints to get a moral or religious standard codified into law.

Except for "family law" which has been separate code from civil law.

The problem with "family law" is that there has been no 'will' of the people to codify the law. It has all been made-up, put in place by lawyers, and the people have had to fight to change it. Most people that want to change it can't because of funds. There have been several ballot attempts to change it and only a few lucky groups in a few states actually finally got "shared parenting" recently while the rest still have to fight custody battles... because custody battles put money in pockets of the lawyers that wrote the "family code".

I would digress if I continue on that note, but I still thought it was of interest in comparison to Saudi's system, or in comparison to any monarchy. Saudi Arabia just tends to have it 'religious' police, and that reminds me of the The Prisoner series:



The Prisoner


If that is to hard to wrap someone's mind around in order to compare what religious police do, then maybe the classic Catch-22 is a better example:

Catch-22, Joseph Heller

Catch-22 is the story of John Yossarian, who is furious because thousands of people he has never met are trying to kill him. Yossarian is also trying to decode the meaning of Catch-22, a mysterious regulation that proves that insane people are really the sanest, while the supposedly sensible people are the true madmen.

reply to post by dzonatas


What you are saying makes so much sense. The laws are made up. It is a reflection of the individual's desire to be God, in a very real way. Lucifer was God's most beautiful angel, until he desired to be God. I believe wholeheartedly that this is a reflection of a certain person who has perceived infinity, yet desires to rule them all. If this type of person would just be honest and love, then the world changes around him or her for the better of all, like ripples in a pond. But with the split in humanity, the corruption, the core-rupture, this individual can perceive that it is impossible to be, and as such just might decide to sling webs until those around will accept this being. This causes all sorts of magnified problems, but the universe always has a check, and they are solved. The cycles seem to get tighter with each iteration. This being initially means no harm, but simply wants to exist. It requires a sort of nuance, and it seems to require sitting perfectly still in a very real way, possessing no selfish angles.

It can be expressed in the metaphor of the serpent's tongue. Even though I have never seen "The Prisoner," that picture of a chessboard completely resonates. Some are trying to lay claim to universal law (perceiving others as pawns), when that natural law already resides within us. Or they are maybe just imitating their ancestors who imitated theirs ad nausem, completely unaware of the consequences, even though all works for reconciliation ultimately. All we have to do is be, and things unfold. We cannot operate from shadows trying to rise to the top. That is really all that is necessary for us to move beyond this.

I had to do some reading about the Mutawa'een, who they are and what they are about. Once again it is Sharia Law.

Why is it that Sharia Law is so often associated with atrocities that could be properly called evil acts? The abuse of women. Using children as bombs. Killing fellow Muslims in random attacks. Stoning women to death as a punishment for being raped. Things so vile as to indicate anyone in agreement with Sharia Law is evil themselves. I just don't see any way around that argument. You can not agree with Sharia Law without at the same time condoning these evil acts.

Pure common sense tells me that anyone who is apologetic for Sharia Law and its enforcement is so vile as to be a plague on this planet and shares fully in the guilt for the actions done in its name.

Diverting attention by pointing out the shortcomings of others, does not change anything. It just proves a person supports these travesties.

How many Muslims have to be tortured, abused or slaughtered in the name of Sharia Law, before they rise up and end it themselves? I think that is a fair question for anyone to ask.

All the Muslim people I know are kind decent people. All the Christians I know are decent people. Yet both our religions have allowed things like this to go on in our histories. Thank God my family came here in the 1800's and I hope as many Muslims as possible are able to escape.

I do not defend nor accept bad behavior from Christians who are not really Christians and I have no patience for Muslims who would apologize for the bad people claiming their faith. Good people do not defend the actions of bad people. It is that simple. People on the fence, share full guilt.

The American Government kisses Saudi butt even though they have just as bad or worse human rights violations as any other country on earth. Not to mention most of the Islamic terrorists that foment violence everywhere they can hail from there.

But as long as Bandar and the American ruling class are in bed together, nothing will change. And yes... despite the lofty talk, The United States does indeed have a ruling class.

reply to post by Angus123


It's deeper than that. The people of those countries have to want things to change, bad enough to act on their own.

Originally posted by orwellianunenlightenment
reply to post by dzonatas

 

But with the split in humanity, the corruption, the core-rupture, this individual can perceive that it is impossible to be, and as such just might decide to sling webs until those around will accept this being. This causes all sorts of magnified problems, but the universe always has a check, and they are solved. The cycles seem to get tighter with each iteration. This being initially means no harm, but simply wants to exist.

It's gonna take a lot to break down the monarchies of the world.

People can try to go on and on and blame Sharia Law, yet that doesn't even come close the problem of monarchies themselves.

This doesn't say that we all are perfect or have a better system, yet it is obviously that in the years of 1400-1600s, nobody could pick out Sharia Law as anything worse than what the other monarchies have done and did done.

Lot more example of Sharia Law place around the world that works fine for those that use it. Those that pick on one country as an example for Sharia Law is really a problem themselves when they ignore the rest of the world applies it.

Next, they come up with a list of 'honor killings', and etc etc.

Even if Saudi Arabia drop their religion, yet still maintained their monarchy, is it gonna change anything? Well, if we look at the example of England over the years and many changes of religion, nope.

reply to post by SportyMB

Man I am glad that this has came up in this forum because I have been doing my best to spread the word about Ali Sibat because this madness has to stop. I have been posting all over Facebook, myspace, and everywhere else to get the word across to help this man. I have even called an international human rights group in Europe which cost me 70 bucks on my phone bill to see if they could help. I emailed the whitehouse 127 times and even emailed Hillary Clinton over and over to see if something could be done, but nothing. I ran across this site with the prince of Saudi Arabia and bombarded his email and yet nothing. When I started posts on facebook and other sites about helping this man people just said "lol" like I was crazy or something. What is wrong with people? If a crap load of people did the same as I he might have a chance. I know ATS is better than that so lets see what we can do, numbersbring results. I couldn't sleep for a month after I read this story.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
reply to post by Angus123

 

It's deeper than that. The people of those countries have to want things to change, bad enough to act on their own.

Very true. I guess to some people backward is comfortable and safe.
Religious people are often that way.

What is mystifying about this story is that it made the news. Saudi Arabia is, I believe, a very closed society and so nothing gets broadcast except by design. There is the law passed in 1922 and then nothing until May of 2009 when the religious police announce a start to clamping down on this activity and now the story about this man, arrested in 2008, who claims to see the future. From what I have read of the middle east, prophets are revered as tradition. I had a friend who lived in Iran pre-K. and who, though not Iranian, told me that the Iranian people of that time looked at the news as, "what they want us to know." If that is still the view, shouldn't this story be looked at as something intended to manipulate and guide us in some way? Just a thought.

I was just fooling around here with my wizardry starter kit casting some spells and such when my crystal ball rang. So I looked deeply into it and low and behold there was a text message from Allah. He told me that he wants everyone to convert and become Rastafarian.

I guess I just ruined my dream of visiting beautiful Saudi Arabia. I hope I'm not extradited for my wizard skills, you never know these days what can happen with American laws.

[edit on

Originally posted by Blaine91555
Pure common sense tells me that anyone who is apologetic for Sharia Law and its enforcement is so vile as to be a plague on this planet and shares fully in the guilt for the actions done in its name.

But there is a difference between being apologetic and not wishing to get involved. Do you think that every person has the duty to risk their lives and that of their families by standing up to the extremists around them? After all it is the Extremists in all religions taking part in behaviour that is destructive.

Diverting attention by pointing out the shortcomings of others, does not change anything. It just proves a person supports these travesties.

I agree that there are many people who do this. However, I am reluctant to say they support these Extremist reactions in doing so. It seems to you that standing up for what you believe is right and true is the most important virtue. But that is your opinion. And that opinion might not mean much in a culture halfway across the world.

[...]

How many Muslims have to be tortured, abused or slaughtered in the name of Sharia Law, before they rise up and end it themselves? I think that is a fair question for anyone to ask.

I'm certainly no fan of Sharia Law and strongly oppose those who feel Western Nations should be under it. However, you have to remember that Saudi Arabia is a sovereign nation that is entitled to enact its own rules and legal system. Just because we do not agree with it does not mean we have a right to make them change what is standard practice in that country.

[...]

I do not defend nor accept bad behavior from Christians who are not really Christians and I have no patience for Muslims who would apologize for the bad people claiming their faith. Good people do not defend the actions of bad people. It is that simple. People on the fence, share full guilt.

As I implied earlier, people on the fence or those who do not want to get involved in something they did not create does not make them worthy of sharing the guilt for the actions of Extremists. You say you do not support bad behaviour from Christians, but if you fail to denounce their bad behaviour then are you supporting their actions?

[edit on 20/3/2010 by Dark Ghost]

Originally posted by TheComte
So, the Saudis arrested somebody who is not a citizen of their country for something he did while outside of their country. Kind of like what the Americans did with Marc Emery. Fortunately, Mr. Emery is not marked for death but this kind of behaviour is setting a dangerous precedent.

Hey, you ain't seen nuthin' yet! Just wait to the UN gets the NWO on track. Fact is, that nasty business has aleady started with the some of the holocast questioners. The rules of the UN will be the law of the land, not those of the individual country. Welcome to the NWO.

You have to be kidding, .... this has to be a bad Joke, ... how primitive are these people to have religious police ??

That poor guy must feel like Charleston Heston in "Planet of The Apes" .

I simply can't beleive that of all the people in Saudi Arabia no one is standing up and saying " this is wrong" !!! .

I still think we should just fence off parts of the Middle East and Asia and just let them annihilate eachther, or untill they can evolve past the point of dot headed apes. Then again who are we to judge ?? in a 100 years people will look back on us and call us barbarians.

reply to post by luxordelphi


The Creative force always protects what belongs to it. This man hasn't even done anything wrong.... He is just a victim of outdated fear and bias.

Now, I could say what it seems like you implying in your post, but I won't. I'm just going to say that if you're implying what it seems that you're implying, then I have to disagree.

This isn't some some scheme by a secret organization to undermine the Islamic faith. This is simply a revelation of the mind frame that the Islamic faith still has towards others who think or believe differently than they do.