Health Care Bill To Cut Deficit: CB0

Originally posted by MysterE

Originally posted by Avenginggecko
reply to post by MysterE

 

Do you understand monetary policy at all?

I suggest you go back an read my post. I never said the tax cuts made money, I said they took less from Americans. I was referring to how the graph shows the tax cuts in big red negative terms. Off course tax cuts will not reduce the deficit, i'm not a moron, but taxing isn't the only way to reduce it. How about REDUCE SPENDING, LIMIT THE SIZE OF GOVERNMENT. But it you can count on higher taxes to help pay for the largest government takover thay are calling healthcare.

Do you understand government policy at all?
Govt. 101

-E-

Actually, the vast, and vastly out of proportion, bulk of the trillions of dollars in 'tax cuts' was nothing but a scheme to shift obscene amounts of wealth to the already most obscenely rich and powerful 400 families in the USA. Providing universal health care is a vast departure from the oligarchical dreams of GW et.al.

reply to post by marg6043


As I said earlier in this thread, I am opposed to a mandate to make everybody purchase health insurance. I think I understand why some people think it would be a good idea, but I, too, dislike the coercion.

Also, if it's true that insurance premiums are still high then maybe Mass. needs something like a public option to compete with the private insurers.

Of course the Mass. experiment probably has weaknesses. After all, the plan was basically put together by Republicans, who want to preserve the "free market" at all costs.

Trouble is, a lot of these Republican ideas are in the HC bill being passed in Congress now, even though the Repubs are voting against their own ideas.

The cheapest and most efficient way to go is still a single-payer plan. But I'm afraid that won't be in the bill, at least not in this go-around.

There are a LOT of weaknesses in the proposed bill, but if it's defeated I'm sure our country will never get any reform, at least not for 20 years or so. To me, some positive change is better than none.

reply to post by marg6043


Well, you have to note that Cahill is running as an independent candidate for Governor. When people are in campaign mode they will attack the opposition any way they can. Maybe's he trying to harness the conservative vote.

Originally posted by Sestias
Actually, the present health care bill very much resembles the legislation enacted by the state of Massachusetts, a few years ago, when Mitt Romney was governor.

Yoo hoo.

That's Mitt Romney, the Republican, one of the front runners for the GOP nomination in 2008. Remember?

I'm not a Romney fan BUT what you are saying is not entirely true. Yes, Romney did put forth a healthcare plan but what is currently law in Massachusetts is not his plan. The democrats who control the legislature there made dramatic changes to his plan to make it this mandated, universal healthcare nightmare.

Secondly, since we see how terrible it is there, why does anyone believe it will work on a larger more corrupt scale?

Originally posted by David9176
reply to post by Thirty_Foot_Smurf

 

Use enough question marks there spaz?

Sorry poopyhead, I'll pull back on the ?'s. Wouldn't want to get your panties in a bunch.

Insurance is distribution of risk. I'm sure you'll find that most will agree...since that is what it is.

But you said it was a tax...are you backtracking on that now?

[edit on 20-3-2010 by Thirty_Foot_Smurf]

Originally posted by Janky Red

Originally posted by Thirty_Foot_Smurf

So true so true. All one has to do is look at the blue states and their decades long socialist agendas and they can see that this great social justice experiment has been tried and is an abject failure. Their hubris prevents them from admitting that they are all wrong.

Maybe right...

But a measured man would say the same to trickle down economics, free trade, multinational mergers and Billionaire tax breaks = less wages - worse jobs - greater deficits and destruction of the middle class.
All since the introduction of such theories and practices; 80 on forward >

I would say there is hubris to go around and plenty of abject failure to top the wonders of success. All one have to do is track the deficits-

so???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????

[edit on 19-3-2010 by Janky Red]

Actually I'd move it from the 80's to the 30's.

Well, here it is...

Medicare Fix Pushes Bill Into The Red

I knew something was fishy when I read This memo from Harry Reid discussing the CBO estimates. In it, he admits that this estimate is based on a number of unlikely assumptions related to costs. Then, out came this memo from Harry Reid's office instructing other Reps to NOT discuss specifics in the CBO estimates. In this memo he describes the EXACT chicanery used to make the Bill appear to be deficit reducing, when it clearly is NOT!

So, in short, how did I know to investigate this further? How did I know that the Democrats were lying? Well, that was easy - their lips were moving!

reply to post by Sestias


I know you are against the mandate, but the truth is that even when this is the views of somebody running for government we can not deny the hard truth of what is going on in Massachusetts and their never ending budget problems and private insurance take over with a bill that never was Universal or free.

reply to post by kozmo


Thank you for adding that! I hope people take the time to actually read it since even those that are in favor of this bill are getting hoodwinked...again.

I don't know why anyone would take a CBO estimate on anything given the Stimulus Bill debacle. They gave that their thumbs-up approval based entirely on the notion that unemployment would never rise above 8%. And now look......oops.

Edit to add: The government just went through and upped Medicare costs across the board. My mother's was raised 300%. My guess is that the timing of this would help make Medicare not look quite as broke as it is. However, even with the additional increases just passed, it is still WAY in the red. This fact alone should give people pause. There is no ceiling to costs here.


[edit on 20-3-2010 by lpowell0627]

I'm curious.

Where are the religious objection clauses like SSN?

Oh that's right. You can refuse to receive benefits all you want just like with SSN, but they will tax you regardless like the AMISH.

Seems fair and like America to me.

cbo data is like everything u can read whatever you want to into it.

spending trillion and cut the deficit is crap.

where does it all stop. if/when this passes its a foot in the door whatelse comes after. at what point will it be enough?

im wonder if the following is in the bill god knows im sure they dont even know:


abortion
dental
vision
sex change operations
invitro
comestic surgeries

and if they arent in now they will be

reply to post by kozmo


This "medicare fix" was in the house bill...not the senate bill.

Dems have just decided to drop "deem and pass"...so that means they will be passing the senate bill directly with no changes.

So this "medicare fix" won't be in the final bill.


But it is funny now that you are SUPPORTING CBOs estimates...when it fits your needs. But earlier in this same thread...you said the CBO numbers weren't accurate.

Originally posted by marg6043

I know you are against the mandate, but the truth is that even when this is the views of somebody running for government we can not deny the hard truth of what is going on in Massachusetts and their never ending budget problems and private insurance take over with a bill that never was Universal or free.

The first article you quoted was written by three professors of medicine. While they are well educated and know medicine, that doesn't mean they don't have their own agenda. That's not a conclusive sampling of the whole population of Massachusetts.

The second article you cited was about a candidate who's running for governor and will say anything to show he's better than the Democrat or the Republican.

As I said, I've talked to a number of residents of Massachusetts and they seem to be satisfied that this program is not perfect, but better than what they had before.

I'm willing to guarantee that not a single piece of legislation ever has passed, or ever will pass, that would satisfy everybody. Somebody's ox is always going to be gored. You have to ask "que bono?" (who profits?)

Originally posted by kozmo
Well, here it is...

Medicare Fix Pushes Bill Into The Red

I knew something was fishy when I read This memo from Harry Reid discussing the CBO estimates. In it, he admits that this estimate is based on a number of unlikely assumptions related to costs. Then, out came this memo from Harry Reid's office instructing other Reps to NOT discuss specifics in the CBO estimates. In this memo he describes the EXACT chicanery used to make the Bill appear to be deficit reducing, when it clearly is NOT!

So, in short, how did I know to investigate this further? How did I know that the Democrats were lying? Well, that was easy - their lips were moving!

LOL, more fear based on another fake memo. A perfect illustration of how the opposition to the bill on the right have tainted and distorted reality in an attempt to create Obama's waterloo. The docfix was not part of this package when it was passed year after year before this bill even existed. Stop using insincere tactics and equations. If your bottom-line is REALLY cost-savings, push for a public option/ medicare part e(veryone), or, on the other-side, show integrity and refuse to vote for anyone candidate who refuses to publicly state he/she is for abolishing Medicare/ Medicaid/ and any other program that you feel must have been pervertedly enacted as legislation by the shadow fascist/socialist/communist or whatever other label is your cup of tea.

Best,
Skunknuts

Best,
Skunknuts

[edit on 3/20/2010 by skunknuts]

reply to post by skunknuts


You've dug all the way to the bottom... fake memo...

You remind of a person who is holding on for dear life, knowing full well that your grip is slipping. Believe the lies... I could care less. IN the future, I (and others) will repeatedly point out to you how you have failed yourself and the country by buying into the lies.

It's funny... Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, The Postal Service, Amtrack - all of those things are streamlined, solvent and benefitting the citizens without costing us a penny! The government does SUCH a GREAT job!!!