Health Care Bill To Cut Deficit: CB0, page 1

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Topic started on 19-3-2010 @ 12:14 AM by Sestias

Reuters

(Reuters) - Congressional budget analysts said on Thursday a broad healthcare overhaul would cut the U.S. deficit over 10 years and sharply expand insurance coverage, boosting the momentum for final passage in the House of Representatives.

President Barack Obama postponed a scheduled visit to Indonesia and Australia to help round up support on what is expected to be a close vote on Sunday on his top legislative priority.

House Democratic leaders unveiled the final changes to the overhaul, which the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office estimated would expand coverage at a cost of $940 billion over 10 years and cut the deficit by $138 billion in the same period through new fees, taxes and cost-saving measures.

Obama said the healthcare bill, which has faced solid Republican opposition, represented "the most significant effort to reduce deficits since the Balanced Budget Act" of 1993.

"This is history, and this is progress," House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said of the overhaul. The bill would represent the biggest changes to the $2.5 trillion healthcare system in the past four decades.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

Not only would HCR cover millions more uninsured, bringing the number of covered Americans to 95%, it would also decrease the overall deficit in the next ten years.

Everyone has been waiting to hear the numbers from the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office, as this will affect how many people will vote for HCR, and the Democrats are celebrating the results as good news.

There will still be people who say we can't afford it, but if health care costs keep rising at the rate they already are, without reform, we will be even less able to afford health care for the average person in this country, or even for those who are relatively well off.

[edit on 19-3-2010 by Sestias]

reply posted on 19-3-2010 @ 12:31 AM by kozmo

Bullocks!

First of all, those are "Preliminary" and "Unsubstantiated" pending a complete study.

To cover the cost of those changes, the compromise would impose a 3.8 percent Medicare tax on investment income for wealthy taxpayers, a levy that would come in addition to a Senate-proposed increase in the regular payroll tax for those families. And it would slice an additional $60 billion from Medicare, with the privately run program known as Medicare Advantage targeted for particularly deep cuts, bringing the total reduction in projected spending on the program to more than $500 billion over the next decade.

Source

Also worthy of noting... IRS gets new powers

Also of note... Healthcare WILL be rationed!

Finally, can you name for me just ONE program operated by the federal government that has run on or under budget? Social Security = broke and bankrupt! Medicare = being CUT to pay for this and is already broke! Every other initiative operates at a deficit! People who applaud this have no idea what they're about to get!

reply posted on 19-3-2010 @ 12:33 AM by VintageEnvy

Thank you for the thread. Im so glad he postponed those trips, we need him right now on this. I really hope they pass it. Can you imagine, 95% covered, what a wonderful thing that will be. I believe it will lead to a prosperity here in America. If people are not as stressed out about their healthcare then they will be happier and hopefully more productive. This is such a good thing thats happening, I hope this comes through. I do wish it included the public option though, that is a big letdown, but it was a compromise that had to be made right now I guess. Im sure something will happen in the future to remedy that.

reply posted on 19-3-2010 @ 12:45 AM by OutKast Searcher

reply to post by kozmo

Bullocks! First of all, those are "Preliminary" and "Unsubstantiated" pending a complete study.

So you don't believe these numbers from the CBO...but I bet you believe the cost estimates by the CBO...right???

It's ok to admit that it is going to cut the deficit and still not support it...but to basically say that the CBOs numbers are not valid is not being honest.

How are we supposed to have a discussion if you will only accept facts that help your cause, but deny any facts that don't??? How can you accept some of the CBOs estimates involving costs...but then not accept their estimates on savings???

How am I supposed to take your arguments serious if you only accept the facts that you support your views???

I just don't get it...it's frustrating trying to find someone to have an honest discussion with about health care reform.

reply posted on 19-3-2010 @ 01:00 AM by Sestias

Originally posted by kozmo
Bullocks! First of all, those are "Preliminary" and "Unsubstantiated" pending a complete study.

Neither preliminary nor unsubstantiated. These are the figures from the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office, through which almost all revenue bills must pass.

reply posted on 19-3-2010 @ 01:09 AM by Sestias

reply to post by VintageEnvy

I too would like to see a public option. It may still happen, but I'm not holding my breath. Even better would be single-payer, but that seems to have been completely defeated this time around. Hopefully it may evolve into that through future amendments.

reply posted on 19-3-2010 @ 01:17 AM by VintageEnvy

reply to post by Sestias

A very exciting time to be alive right now! Our kids kids will hopefully never have to even give this a second thought because they'll not understand a time when we didn't have universal health care. Also, I look at his 'political suicide' as refreshing. He's trying to get something passed for the good of the people not worried about his image or how it effects his 'career'. I'm very proud of this. Plus, it always just seems to be us 3 that chat on here about the good of this, that's a little disheartening, but hopefully this will help the naysayers even more then me.

reply posted on 19-3-2010 @ 01:39 AM by dolphinfan

reply to post by Sestias

Accounting is a funny thing. When you begin to collect for services that won't be delivered for 4 years, the accounting looks terrific. The fact is that if you start the calculations in 2014 and take it out until 2024, it is a massive hit on the deficit. It is the first three years of tax receipts with no delivery of new services that makes it look positive.

There are other issues that are not factored in which are budget negative, such as the excise taxes which are not included in these calculations.

Whether or not you are for or against the plan, if you think this is deficit neutral or better, you're crazy.

You need to understand how they are performing the accounting, what is included, what is excluded. You also need to take a serious look at the assumptions. Government accounting does not follow GAP (general accounting principals) which is the standard accounting rules and standards used in business and in our homes. That kind of accounting makes sense and is for the most part logical.

Government accounting is much different. If the CFO of a public company used government accounting guidlines in reporting the financial statements for their firm, under Sarbanes/Oxley, specifically rule 404, they would be placed in federal prison.

The CBO is a non-partisan entity and the numbers, sans the assumptions are generally unbiased, it is the very rules they are obligated to use or more specifically not required to use that make these kinds of statements a sham.

reply posted on 19-3-2010 @ 01:48 AM by skunknuts

reply to post by kozmo

Here is the ACTUAL bill, I have read it, and I support it:

Ammendment to 4872

Here is some actual information for those that like to form logic-based conclusions:

Best,
Skunknuts

reply posted on 19-3-2010 @ 02:36 AM by RDR17

I am simply amazed at some of you. Stunned actually.
These numbers are so far off from what the reality would be. Why do you think that the CBO score was delayed for this long on this latest attempt to get this bill, or a similar version of it, signed? CBO is like a calculator, it can only calculate what is inputted in it. The CBo doesn't "score" the effect this has on doctors or the middle class tax payer that's barely scraping by ( you know, the actual individual(s) ), the small business owners, etc., how could they, it's impossible. We simply can't measure all the effects that come with this bill.

It took so long to get the score back because it took all the lobyist that actually wrote the bill this long to tweak the language, skew the numbers, rosy up the projections, etc. etc.etc. All to make this monstrosity piece of utter trash legislation LOOK even remotely close to palitable to the people. Give me a break. This is a farce of Orwellean proportions and so many really truly don't see it. It astonishes me.

You notice that the dem leadership almost never speak about raising the quality of health care? Why do you think that is?

If you honestly believe that these numbers are going to even come anywhere near the ballpark of the actual reality, I emplore you to copy your posts and in 10, 15, 20 years from now go back and read them. There is just no way. I'm sorry but thats the world we live in. I too wish that it wasn't, but it is.
This issue is so so much bigger than health care. That is not what this bill is about!!! Stop believing and start actually looking about what's happening here.

Also, you do realize that 70 billion of the so called 180 billion "saved" is from the fedeal takeover of the student loan industry. Tell me why this is even part of this bill or this debate?!?!

You also realize that we ran a deficit north of 200 billion dollars last month right? LAST MONTH!!!!! Damn it pisses me off so much I can't tell you! To hear people applauding this is again simply amazing. Amazing.

The crafting of this bill and the deals they have made and the arms they have broken to get this thing passed has been the most underhanded and corrupt process in American History. You can't run on change and do this. We as a people just cannot stand for this type of politics. It is politics at it's abolute worst. It's just not change, it's just more of the same. Right out in the open with an arrogance like, yeah, so, what are you gonna do about it? A vote for this bill and support of it, is a vote for how it was crafted and for the procedures used to jam it through congress. Not one of us, from either and all side(s) should support the way this process has unfolded. Not a single one of us.

Please please reconsider your thoughts on this wrecking ball of legislation. Only you rank and file democrats can stop this now. We can go back to arguing about our other disagreements next week, but for now we all need to stand together in opposition. This just cannot be. We as a people and as indivduals cannot allow our "leaders" to behaive this way. The founding fathers understood just how rare individual freedom was and is in human history. They understood how precious it was. It's our turn to do the same.

reply posted on 19-3-2010 @ 02:36 AM by ANNED

What they don't tell you is just the government will benefit.

The average middle class family will be FORCED to buy health insurance.
at rates to be SET by the insurance industry.

The cost paid by the people for this health insurance will go up 50% to 100+% over the same next 10 years.
Nothing in this health care law sets ANY limits on what you will have to pay.

This will be a TAX paid by you not to the government but to the insurance industry.

Plus the government may add a tax on health insurance of some people to pay for others that have no income to buy insurance with.

And the insurance industry can under this law set limits on your health care cost, What drugs you will get and what treatments you get for a disease.
There is nothing in this law to stop them.

reply posted on 19-3-2010 @ 02:51 AM by Janky Red

I think if we wouldn't have gone thru the death panel red scare we would have a better bill. I agree with Kucinich, who feels leaving this up to the states would prove to create a more natural creation just like Canada progressed. On the other hand I still think certain measures could be enacted without the rest. I could also accept a straight up universal buy in plan... However this bill is not my favorite, it is weak in that it does not address the core of the issue, which is Healthcare is not the same as a Porche.

BEN FRANKLIN himself stated and believed that "healthcare" was vital to society and should be funded with public, private and charitable money. OF corse chicken pumpers don't like him...

I am still thankful for the people how shill for "freedom" and elite price gouging -

I love you guys, always waging some wonder and are no better than the bill. May the lot of you have your home reposed on account of illness, since thats the way, to bill the stinking bill will protect you

God Bless Amerika and the elites cheering on the southern freedoms, c

[edit on 19-3-2010 by Janky Red]

reply posted on 19-3-2010 @ 03:30 AM by RDR17

It would be laughable if it wasn't just so damn sad. You my friend are unwittingly supporting the "elites" you just railed against.

First, "the death panel red square" thing? Yeah that's was the problem with this bill. I'm still so amazed. Amazed.

Second, "Canada progressing". You know that Canada is bigger than the USA landwise yet has a smaller population than just California. How is this a comparison?

I just don't believe some of you. The logic is so flawed.

Don't buy the hype. This bill is a disaster.

reply posted on 19-3-2010 @ 05:13 AM by WhatTheory

Yeah, the ObamaCare costs 1 Trillion dollars and somehow, magically, it will reduce the deficit??

Don't make me laugh! Plus, knowing the government, if they say it costs 1 Trillion then in reality it will cost 3 Trillion.

Another point: The only reason the CBO can say this now is because of two reasons.

1) The estimate put out yesterday is only preliminary. They have yet to see the final bill as deals are still being worked out.

2) The costs for the first ten years is skewed because the HealthCare bill will not start until 2014 BUT the government will begin taking taxes immediately. So for four years, the government will be collecting money and not providing any services. Also, do you really think this money will not be used for other things? Does the Social Security "lock box" ring a bell?

This is a total disaster of a bill and it will sink America. BTW, also look forward to the IRS taking your rebate checks and garnishing your paychecks if they deem you have insufficient health coverage since they are going to be the HealthCare police.

Anyone who votes for this should be publically hanged for being a enemy of the state. Oh wait, they really did not vote for it, it was deemed voted.

Why do we even have a Constitution if our elected representatives are not going to abide by it. Sad & Pathetic!!

[edit on 3/19/2010 by WhatTheory]

reply posted on 19-3-2010 @ 08:21 AM by MysterE

I can't believe people actually beilive that the healthcare bill will cut into the deficite.

First, it does not take into account the 30 some million illegal aliens that will be added to our system once they go after amnesty.

Second, they are counting the 500 billion they are taking from medicade as a cut, but they are just reallocating the funds, NOT cutting them.

Third, THIS IS AN ESTIMATE, and a poor one at that. How do you come out with a budget when the bill had not yet been released? Thats ridiculous.

Lastly, the numbers are based on current rates of hospital visits. what is going to happen when everone, and their mom has health care? There going to use and abuse it.

I think the real conspiracy here is that people actually believe the garbage that is being spewed by our government. Enjoy having the IRS all over your wallet

-E-

[edit on 19-3-2010 by MysterE]

reply posted on 19-3-2010 @ 08:26 AM by MysterE

Originally posted by skunknuts
reply to post by kozmo

I want to say someting about your graph. The "Bush tax cuts did not COST the US anything, all it did was TAKE LESS FROM ITS CITIZENS. Your graph represents money going to the government. Its cute to attach it to the budget, now tell me, wouldn't a 90% tax increase look pretty good on your graph? Wouldn't that fix the budget?

-E-

[edit on 19-3-2010 by MysterE]

reply posted on 19-3-2010 @ 08:41 AM by marg6043

reply to post by Sestias

This are the final desperate measures of the party in charge to mandate health care in the nation.

Already the studies done has shown that the health care bill will only increase the deficit and nobody knows for how much, while putting a tag on the already burdened tax payer and their wallets.

They are desperate because Obama has promised to take care of the deficit and this has to be done by April.

The bill that will put the Obama deficit financial panels to cut the deficit will render the health care bill as an additional cost to the nation and it will nullified as a deficit cuts.

The dirty littler secrets that the Obama administration doesn't want you to know.

Can Democrats Dislodge the Debate Over Healthcare Reform?

If U.S. President Barack Obama goes ahead with a plan to have Democrats invoke a parliamentary gambit known as "reconciliation" to pass healthcare reform, a little known provision in the budget cycle ensures that Washington politicians will get to the endgame in less than 60 days.

One of the peculiarities of reconciliation is that it is a creation of the 1974 Budget Act and is linked to the annual budget cycle in Congress. It has been used to pass more than 22 tax cuts and deficit reductions over the years.

But the Budget Act specifies that Congress must complete action on its budget resolution by April 15 of each year. Once the budget resolution conference report is adopted by both the House of Representatives and the Senate, its terms govern the remainder of the budget process for that year - meaning no further spending measures can be introduced, including healthcare reform.

moneymorning.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The Obama administration and their health care bill is nothing but another big spending program.

They know it, I know it and many Americans knows it.

Everything is lie.

[edit on 19-3-2010 by marg6043]

reply posted on 19-3-2010 @ 08:51 AM by vor78

I'll believe it when I see it. I think its much more likely that it'll cost at least three times their projections if it is implemented. The very fact that they have to delay the benefits in order to keep their own estimate for the next ten years under $1 trillion is a pretty obvious clue that even they don't believe the bullcrap that they're selling.

On the bright side, it should be a great stimulus for the insurance industry. They have to be thrilled with the prospect of 30 million new customers that they can rip off.

reply posted on 19-3-2010 @ 09:15 AM by Avenginggecko

reply to post by MysterE

Do you understand monetary policy at all?

Yes, the Bush tax cuts took less from citizens (mostly upper class, wealthy ones).

No, it did NOT reduce the deficit. You see, when the government takes less money from its citizens, it should reduce Federal spending to compensate.

That never happened, which is why you see a negative impact on the budget, not because the tax cuts simply "took less".

The tax cuts actually took MORE from the US citizen in the long term because the budget wasn't slashed to cover them, therefore YOU and I will be paying the cost PLUS INTEREST and INFLATION.

Economics 101.

/facepalm.

reply posted on 19-3-2010 @ 09:20 AM by kozmo

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by kozmo

Bullocks! First of all, those are "Preliminary" and "Unsubstantiated" pending a complete study.

So you don't believe these numbers from the CBO...but I bet you believe the cost estimates by the CBO...right???

It's ok to admit that it is going to cut the deficit and still not support it...but to basically say that the CBOs numbers are not valid is not being honest.

How are we supposed to have a discussion if you will only accept facts that help your cause, but deny any facts that don't??? How can you accept some of the CBOs estimates involving costs...but then not accept their estimates on savings???

How am I supposed to take your arguments serious if you only accept the facts that you support your views???

I just don't get it...it's frustrating trying to find someone to have an honest discussion with about health care reform.

The CBO, by their own admission, have not certified these numbers and have warned REPEATEDLY that these are ESTIMATES based on their "understanding" of the bill. It was only made public yesterday and is over 2,200 pages long. Are you dim enough to believe that they were able to run the numbers in 4 hours???

I'm sorry, but there are just way to many gullible people in this country!

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