When was Venus first seen?

Alright, to get back to one of my original questions regarding what was the "Birth of Venus" to the mayans, and why did their calendar start on the date of 3114 BC.

I have found in Hindu history/myth this:

www.encyclopediaofauthentichinduism.org...

Lord Krishn ascended to His Divine abode at the end of dwaparyug and immediately kaliyug started in 3102 BC. Krishn lived for over 125 years. He descended on the earth planet in 3228 BC. The Pandavas, after winning the Mahabharat war, ruled for 36 years and 8 months. Accordingly, the date of Mahabharat war comes to 3139 BC..

Krshn, or Lord Krishna (beatles fans will remember george Harrison's song, my sweet lord, which mentions Krishna: my sweet lord) is one of the most important gods in Hindu religion and is sometimes refered to as the supreme being.

So there is a great battle all over India around the time of the "Birth of Venus".

Venus is almost always associated with Love and War. What the hell happened 5000 years ago!???!?!

Originally posted by BeastMaster2012
Have you ever calculated or thought about how long a mayan long count would be with 360 days instead of 365?

I agree with Solasis in that these are two different measures of time. I can't really answer your question because I don't know enough about the Maya calendars. Here is a link to an ATS sticky on Maya Calendar Research and even though there is a lot there to read I believe that this is only a small portion of the original calendar system from the Maya. In other words there is a ton of information that is missing and I blame this as the reason why the Maya are so enigmatic.

Our Solar year is one orbit around the Sun which is also called a tropical year (equinoctial alignment). If I were to guess I would say the Maya long count is based on a 365 1/4 day calendar year, or more precisely a 583.94 day Venus synodic alignment which is based on the same tropical year for Earth.

One of the odd things about the Maya long count is that it was started by the Maya, presumable from earlier information (Toltec/Olmec?), in the middle. They back dated the calendar to start somewhere at the end of the 4th millennium BC (around 3114 BC IIRC). I have speculated that this might be due to the arrival of Venus at that back dated time and the reason for the delay in the calendar start time is because of the destruction of the civilizations that recorded these events. The Olmec, Toltec and Maya civilizations have all come and gone mysteriously long before the arrival of the Spanish conquistadors.

Originally posted by Equinox99
Yes but how did they know we were on a large planet, and they were gazing at planets?...
How were they able to tell that what they were looking at were in fact round planets?
The Sumerians foretold the planets pretty accurately. How are they able to see Mercury?

Originally posted by BeastMaster2012
I believe the egyptians had the ability to tell latitude and longitude...
...by measuring the shadows of the sun from different points on the earth at the same time, they were able to figure out that the earth was round.

Both of you have pointed out confirmations that the ancients knew far more the we did just 4 centuries ago. Further research will show that they knew more than we did just 100 years ago and I believe that they knew more than we do today. This is a very profound observation and should not be taken lightly, the ancients were far more advanced than we were not long ago and perhaps even above our understanding today.

By considering the possibility that they could have been more advanced than we are today leaves open an opportunity to better understand these civilizations, ourselves and our place in the Universe.

ADD: Think of all the information that was never followed up on because of the egotistical belief that they couldn't have possible known that therefore this must be incorrect and does not exist.

[edit on 3/24/2010 by Devino]

reply to post by Devino


I firmly believe that the ancients new more than we know today. It is amazing how we can not explain how the pyramids and other megalithic sites have been built by the ancients.

A documentary on Egypt discussed the use of obsidian scalpels. The person compared obsidian with steel scalpels by cutting paper and magnified the results. The steel cuts were very jagged and rough while the obsidian cuts were almost perfectly smooth. Using it on humans would mean less scaring.

Funny that the ancient americans were known to use obsidian too..

I think egypt is hiding things. They recently built a wall around the pyramids 22 feet high!

There is a great documentary called the pyramid code that talks about the wall being built and hypothesizes why they could be building it.

I am really really fascinated with ancient civilizations and want to know the truth.

reply to post by Equinox99


The answer is that, for the most part at least, they didn't know. That's related to the Geocentric Model of the Universe, in which everything else orbits around the earth. The greeks, at least, were pretty sure that the planets were just weirdo stars or their equivalents; "Planet" actually means "Wanderer." They had no idea that the planets were kin to Earth in that sense; they thought Earth was unique. But I can't speak for the Mayans or Sumerians...

reply to post by BeastMaster2012


Modern archaeology suggests that the Egyptians didn't have nearly the sort of technology to travel to the poles and survive. Nor is there any such record. While it is possible, it's a needless assumption. They did indeed know that the Earth was round -- or, at least, the Greeks did, and the Greeks were in heavy duty contact with the Egyptians.

Probably the reason it's fuzzy before then is because humans weren't making as much junk that would outlast the years. Few records survive because few records were made.

reply to post by Devino


Actually, there's no mystery as to why the Mayans disappeared. In fact, they didn't disappear. Their civilization just lost its power. There are still Mayan descendants in southern Mexico and Central America. As for the Olmecs and the Toltecs, I don't know very much about them, but I believe their cultures developed into the Mayans.

reply to post by BeastMaster2012


Actually, we can explain how they built the pyramids and such. It's pure folly to think that they couldn't have moved those stones themselves. The idea that they couldn't have done it through traditional means is more because the things they did were so astonishing than because it's true.

The obsidian thing is pretty interesting, though. The Aztecs and the Maya used loads of obsidian, mostly because it was abundant in the areas that they had settled. But I didn't know that the Egyptians had any significant volumes of it.

One of the odd things about the Maya long count is that it was started by the Maya, presumable from earlier information (Toltec/Olmec?), in the middle. They back dated the calendar to start somewhere at the end of the 4th millennium BC (around 3114 BC IIRC). I have speculated that this might be due to the arrival of Venus at that back dated time and the reason for the delay in the calendar start time is because of the destruction of the civilizations that recorded these events. The Olmec, Toltec and Maya civilizations have all come and gone mysteriously long before the arrival of the Spanish conquistadors.

Yes i have heard that they inherited from the Olmecs. I have thought that maybe they did back date the calendar, but i don't think so.

The reason i don't think it is back dated because it goes back 26,000 years with 5 epochs. We are in the last epoch, the 5th sun.

It is possible that the calendar was created around 400bc like they believe, but i don't know.

Have you read "Fingerprints of the Gods"? I HIGHLY recommend it. He talks about the true age of ancient sites in south america, central america and in egypt.

from wiki's page on the book:
en.wikipedia.org...

The book pivots on "fingerprints" of these civilizations, evidence of which Hancock finds in the descriptions of Godmen like Osiris, Thoth, Quetzalcoatl, and Viracocha. These creation myths predate history, and Hancock suggests that in 10,450 BC, a major pole shift took place, before which Antarctica was further from the South Pole than it is today, and after which it was moved to its present location. This civilization was supposedly centered around Antarctica, and later survivors initiated the Olmec, Aztec, Maya, and Egyptian cultures.

The book was influenced by Rand and Rose Flem-Ath's When the Sky Fell: in Search of Atlantis (1995/2009)in which they expand the evidence for Charles Hapgood's earth crust displacement and propose Antarctica as the site of Atlantis.

The Flem-ath's books are great too, i am currently reading "the Atlantis Blueprints" in which they make a strong case for a pole shift happening.

Anyways in fingerprints of the gods he talks about the possibility that Puma Punka and could be over 10,000 years old based on it's relationship to the amazing lake titicaca.

www.world-mysteries.com...

Puma Punku, truly startles the imagination. It seems to be the remains of a great wharf (for Lake Titicaca long ago lapped upon the shores of Tiahuanaco) and a massive, four-part, now collapsed building. One of the construction blocks from which the pier was fashioned weighs an estimated 440 tons (equal to nearly 600 full-size cars) and several other blocks laying about are between 100 and 150 tons. The quarry for these giant blocks was on the western shore of Titicaca, some ten miles away. There is no known technology in all the ancient world that could have transported stones of such massive weight and size. The Andean people of 500 AD, with their simple reed boats, could certainly not have moved them. Even today, with all the modern advances in engineering and mathematics, we could not fashion such a structure.

I personally think that this site holds the key to our ancient past more than Egypt.

I also think there are secrets in Antarctica that we will probably never know about.. more on this in a second

Ok i am all over the place, i apologize about that. But most of my friends don't give a care about ancient civilizations so i don't discuss this that often.


ANyways i watched a documentary recently about the path of humans out of Africa. Most humans, so this documentary said, left Africa around 50,000 to 60,000 years ago and slowly made their way to Siberia/Japan and around 14,000 probably crossed into america.

What i found interesting in the video was how many ancient american sites had humans settled in around 13,000 BC and reached south America.

I really wonder if a civilization was in Antarctica around 13,000 years ago.

I know scientists say that Antarctica is covered with miles of ice and it has been there for millions of years but if there was a pole shift some of Antarctica would be in a warmer climate.

This area that was probably in a warmer climate is very close to South America, to be exact there is only a 400 mile stretch of water between the continents. If they were to travel to Africa by water it would be 2,000 miles.

This is why i think South America's Tiahuanaco site is very important because it could have hints of an ancient civilization. The construction of some of those buildings are I N S A N E !

reply to post by BeastMaster2012


Antarctica is very oddly enigmatic, isn't it? HP Lovecraft had a couple stories in which there were the remains of an ancient -- and, of course, inhuman -- civilization down there. It's an interesting topic. I doubt there actually is anything, but it does pique my interest.

Yes, i am a little obsessed with Antarctica.. I am not familiar with Lovecraft, i will have to look that up now!

I made a post recently about Freemasons in Antarctica, check it out!

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I love the Admiral Byrd stories and especially his interview in Argentina after leaving the south pole in 1947:

ufocasebook.conforums.com...

QUOTE: "Admiral Richard E Byrd warned today of the need for the United States to adopt protective measures against the possibility of invasion of the country by hostile aircraft proceeding from the polar regions. 'I don't want to scare anybody but the bitter reality is that in the event of a new war the United States will be attacked by aircraft flying in from one or both poles."

If this interview is in fact true it is quite shocking. Hollow Earth anyone? :-D

Originally posted by Solasis
Actually, there's no mystery as to why the Mayans disappeared. In fact, they didn't disappear.

Apparently that's not what the Aztecs have claimed. They learned about the Maya culture from the abandon cities that were left, the same goes for the Maya with the Toltec people. The Maya learned about them from the ruins that were left behind, in other words no direct physical contact.

Their civilization just lost its power. There are still Mayan descendants in southern Mexico and Central America.

I can imagine that there are decedents found here and there but keep in mind what these ancient American civilizations consisted of. The Meso-American people had built numerous cities with several million people each at differing times. Some of these civilizations predated 3000 BC. How does a highly developed city of over a million people suddenly disappear without any record of where they all went. Perhaps once or twice in history might be somehow explained as a fluke but several times in several different locations...? Don't forget the North American Clovis, Anasazi and other native American peoples.

As for the Clovis they disappeared but left traces behind yet that is a totally different discussion that is also very interesting. There is evidence that the Clovis Indians were originally from Belgium some 13,000-14,000 years ago. This evidence turns science on its head again.

Originally posted by BeastMaster2012
Yes i have heard that they inherited from the Olmecs. I have thought that maybe they did back date the calendar, but i don't think so.
...It is possible that the calendar was created around 400bc like they believe...

Well, from what I remember reading about the Maya they created their calendar from the information left by the Toltec and/or Olmec and in this same way the Aztec people created their calendar.
Calendar Stone.

From this understanding it is then obvious that each civilization started their calendar from a point in history and counted up to their current position. The Maya calendar was supposedly created in around the 6th century BC (?) yet its beginning starts somewhere in the 32nd century BC so we must assume it was back dated.

The reason i don't think it is back dated because it goes back 26,000 years with 5 epochs. We are in the last epoch, the 5th sun.

You know, this does seem to be connected to the cycle of the Earth's precession of the Equinoxes. I now remember reading something about this, and with a connection between the calendar's 40 and 400 year cycle with Mercury (40 year cycle) and Mars (400 years cycle) I found this all to be a lot of information to take in at one time.

There is an inferior conjunction with Earth, Venus and Mercury every 40 years or so and Mars is added in opposition every 400 years or so. These alignments are not perfect, according to my celestial program, but close enough to really get me worked up over it. The understanding of this left me with a feeling that there is far more involved in this story, someone really knew a lot about astronomy, physics and mathematics to say the least.

Have you read "Fingerprints of the Gods"?

I have not read this book yet, although I have read many articles by Graham Hancock and have seen him on a few documentaries. One of the books I am currently reading is "Secrets of the Mexican Pyramids" - by Peter Tompkins.

Chapter 19 is about the city of Teotihuacan which is said to have a ceremonial area that represents our solar system. What I read was nearly unbelievable, the markers in this area indicate 9 planets with two additional markers between the Sun and the planet Mercury and another marker outside the orbit of Pluto. I doubt there is any confirmation for this theory and I began to have an overload of information feeling. This is all overwhelming so I am not sure how much more reading I am up for right now.

I really wonder if a civilization was in Antarctica around 13,000 years ago.

One would think that a simple ice core sample from Antarctica would answer this question. This is not something I have tried to look for. Subsequently the year "10,900 BC" is an interesting date (nearly 13.000 years ago), do a Google search and you will see what I mean.

Originally posted by Devino
Apparently that's not what the Aztecs have claimed. They learned about the Maya culture from the abandon cities that were left, the same goes for the Maya with the Toltec people. The Maya learned about them from the ruins that were left behind, in other words no direct physical contact.

Well, yes, they primarily learned about the preceding Mayans from the cities they abandoned. Much like we've learned the most about previous Egyptians from the tombs they left behind.

I can imagine that there are decedents found here and there

Not here and there. There are lots of them. They're one of the most subjugated groups in Latin America, so there are ever fewer.

but keep in mind what these ancient American civilizations consisted of. The Meso-American people had built numerous cities with several million people each at differing times. Some of these civilizations predated 3000 BC.

Actually, I'm pretty sure that none of the major cities predate 3000 BC. There are of course sites that predate 3000 BC, and there is, I believe, a surprising amount of architectural and cultural sophistication -- but nothing like what you're suggesting. I might be wrong on this point, though.

How does a highly developed city of over a million people suddenly disappear without any record of where they all went.

This one, though, I absolutely know is false. This is a myth. It's propogated by people like you who desperately want there to be a mystery. The fact is -- and I learned this in a college class about Meso-Americans, so that both raises and reduces its reliablility -- There is plenty of record of what happened. The Maya kept detailed historical records in a way that is very difficult to decode, and archaeologists are STILL figuring out most of their stuff. The Maya civilizations had hit some economic hardships. I can't quite remember what caused them; it might have been a combination of ill-advised wars and environmental factors. But to rectify this, the kings tried to impress the gods... with an increase in war-fare to get sacrificial victims and a massive increase in monument building. The entire Mayan budget went into things that did not help them recover their economy at all.

... Oh good lord this sounds so familiar.

Perhaps once or twice in history might be somehow explained as a fluke but several times in several different locations...? Don't forget the North American Clovis, Anasazi and other native American peoples.

As for the Clovis they disappeared but left traces behind yet that is a totally different discussion that is also very interesting.

Then it doesn't support your point at all.

There is evidence that the Clovis Indians were originally from Belgium some 13,000-14,000 years ago. This evidence turns science on its head again.

That's pretty fascinating. I need to look into it.

Originally posted by Devino
The Maya calendar was supposedly created in around the 6th century BC (?)

Actually, the "pre-classic period" during which the Maya civilization "began" was from 2000 BC 'til 250 AD. (Yes, I looked at Wikipedia to get the proper figures, but I've gotten basically identical information from scholarly sources before). So their civilization began at least a millenium earlier than you claim. Its extension farther into the past, about 3443 BC I think, is still interesting, though.

There is an inferior conjunction with Earth, Venus and Mercury every 40 years or so and Mars is added in opposition every 400 years or so. These alignments are not perfect, according to my celestial program, but close enough to really get me worked up over it.

This isn't particularly relevant, but I've always wanted to write a book where a huge number of supervillains, Bondian villains, and just cosmic coincidences are poised to destroy the world during a planetary conjunction. Some of them discover each other and fight over who gets to go; others need to get stopped by plucky bands of heroes, established and not. Do you happen to know if there's ever gonna be a time when all the planets have conjunctions -- preferably all Major?

reply to post by Devino

Chapter 19 is about the city of Teotihuacan which is said to have a ceremonial area that represents our solar system. What I read was nearly unbelievable, the markers in this area indicate 9 planets with two additional markers between the Sun and the planet Mercury and another marker outside the orbit of Pluto. I doubt there is any confirmation for this theory and I began to have an overload of information feeling. This is all overwhelming so I am not sure how much more reading I am up for right now.

Yes i have heard about this. I watched a documentary ( i watch a lot of documentaries) where they discussed this city. The name "avenue of the dead" was not the mayan name for the main avenue, the aztecs named it. Also the the names for the pyramid of the sun and the pyramid of the moon were miss named by the aztecs. They talked about the avenue not being a straight shot and they had small pools of water at different levels that were probably used as some kind of earthquake sensor, but who knows if this was true.

---

I have not heard about the possibilties of belgiums coming to america. I need to look up DNA testing done on native americans.

I can not find anything on google about belgiums coming to america. Was that discussed in a book you read? I would love to read about this.

---

As for Antarctica, i don't know if scientists are telling the truth about it. Weird things are happening there and i almost think that people are hiding the truth. I really think something is up down there.

en.wikipedia.org...

The Antarctic Treaty was signed in 1959 by twelve countries; to date, forty-six countries have signed the treaty. The treaty prohibits military activities and mineral mining, supports scientific research, and protects the continent's ecozone.

But anyways this isn't about antarctica! It is about Venus.

---

So if the Mayans, like the Aztecs, were given the calendar from the olmecs, we need to look into the Olmecs.

The olmec statues are intriguing and i haven't given much thought into them. Could the olmec's have been from Africa? The giant olmec heads do look pretty African.

i found this interesting:

www.raceandhistory.com...

The African-Olmecs also had religious practices identical to that of West Africans according to "A History of the African-Olmecs," (published by 1stbooks Library, 2959 Vernal Pike, Bloomington, Indiana 47404 U.S.A ww.1stbooks.com ) Olmec religions included the use of shamen, the recognition of the Venus planet complex, the use of the ax as a prop in the worship of the Thunder God and the importance of children in their religion.

In the African religion of Shango, shamen are used. In fact, a statuette of an Oni or Priest-king of ancient Nigeria falls in line with the description of the Olmec Shamen given by early American archeologists in the Olmec region of Mexico.

In the Shango religion of Nigeria, Trinidad and Tobago, Cuba, Brazil and other parts of African-Americas, the very same religion as practiced by the Olmecs is still practiced. As for Africa, the Venus complex is studied by the Ono and Bambara, both accomplished seamen who usd to sail the once sea-covered Sahara and the Atlantic.

The Dogon of Mali specialize in the study of the Sirius star system and are experts in their accuracy and charting methods, without any telecopes. The use of the ax and its connection to the worship of the Thunder God was also connected to the Olmecs. Both the Olmecs of Mexico and West Africans practiced religions that included children playing a significant part.

There is overwhelming evidence in all areas that the first civilization in Mexico was influenced tremendously by Africans from West Africa and Nubia/Egypt. All cultural and racial connections show this importand and crucial fact.

There is also a connection with the early Black and Mongoloid dynasties of ancient Shia and Shang Dynasty China, whose prehhistoric origins is said to be Mesopotamia during the Ku#e dynasties and Ku#e Sudan.

The statue of an ancient Nigerian Oni or Priest-king dating back thousands of years shows him holding religious artefacts that have been found among Olmec priests who are holding identical artefacts in the very same manner.

If the olmecs were black, who was quetzacoatl? Is that another civilization that visited them? Maybe that was the belgiums?

I love the Quetzacoatl and Viracocha stories of a bearded white man visiting and helping the mayans and south americans. It seems like central/south america was a busy busy place in ancient times.

Originally posted by Devino

Originally posted by Solasis
Actually, there's no mystery as to why the Mayans disappeared. In fact, they didn't disappear.

Apparently that's not what the Aztecs have claimed. They learned about the Maya culture from the abandon cities that were left, the same goes for the Maya with the Toltec people. The Maya learned about them from the ruins that were left behind, in other words no direct physical contact.

No, the Maya and the Aztecs lived at the same time.

It's just that the Maya civilization had suffered a steep decline.

They were eventually overcome by Spanish Conquistadors, just like the Aztec.

Their civilization just lost its power. There are still Mayan descendants in southern Mexico and Central America.

I can imagine that there are decedents found here and there but keep in mind what these ancient American civilizations consisted of. The Meso-American people had built numerous cities with several million people each at differing times.

No, they didn't.

Tenochtilan's population at the height of the Aztec Triple Alliance is estimated to be around 200,000 people. Tenochtilan was the largest city of the people we call the Aztecs.

Some of these civilizations predated 3000 BC. How does a highly developed city of over a million people suddenly disappear without any record of where they all went.

As was said, they didn't disappear.

That said, I should point out that many natives (as much as 2/3 of the population) died of smallpox, measels, the flu etc. before they even laid eyes on the Spanish conquerors.

There is evidence that the Clovis Indians were originally from Belgium some 13,000-14,000 years ago. This evidence turns science on its head again.

You are likely referring to the Solutrean Hypothesis.

More recent mtDNA evidence has weakened this idea. I'll start to lean toward it when they find a Solutrean point in North America, and not before then.

Harte

reply to post by Solasis
First off I would like to say I appreciate you calling me out on my errors. I embrace humility as a teaching tool.

Originally posted by Solasis
Actually, I'm pretty sure that none of the major cities predate 3000 BC. There are of course sites that predate 3000 BC, and there is, I believe, a surprising amount of architectural and cultural sophistication -- but nothing like what you're suggesting. I might be wrong on this point, though.

After reviewing my original assertions I think you're correct and I was overly exaggerating my point with the dates and numbers of people. The ancient sites that I was claiming to predate 3000 BC was in Caral, Peru but reviewing some of that information shows that they might have started in 3000 BC and more likely peaking around 2600 BC. Furthermore I was assuming that that ancient city had several hundred thousand inhabitants but Wiki claims only several thousands. There does appear to be a time barrier of around 3000 BC that these ancient civilizations do not predate.
Caral- Wiki.
Caral- BBC 50 min Video.

How does a highly developed city of over a million people suddenly disappear without any record of where they all went.

This one, though, I absolutely know is false. This is a myth. It's propogated by people like you who desperately want there to be a mystery. The fact is -- and I learned this in a college class about Meso-Americans, so that both raises and reduces its reliablility -- There is plenty of record of what happened. The Maya kept detailed historical records in a way that is very difficult to decode...

Keep in mind the Maya were not the only great civilization that existed and perished in the Americas and other parts of the world. As for the detailed records that are very difficult to decode this is enigmatic and ambiguous at best and only adds to the mystery that "people like me who desperately want there to be". To clear this comment up I would rather break open these mysteries with evidence and information and I am not desperate in any way. My objective is to "be still and know".

...archaeologists are STILL figuring out most of their stuff. The Maya civilizations had hit some economic hardships. I can't quite remember what caused them; it might have been a combination of ill-advised wars and environmental factors. But to rectify this, the kings tried to impress the gods... with an increase in war-fare to get sacrificial victims and a massive increase in monument building. The entire Mayan budget went into things that did not help them recover their economy at all.

This is also what I was taught, for the most part, yet I could say the same about these statements. "This is a myth, it's propagated by people like you [archeologists] who desperately want there to [not] be a mystery." The fact is we do not yet understand what happened to these people nor how advanced they were nor where they got their knowledge from nor how many different civilizations there were nor how many people lived in them. There is most definitely a mystery here and neither of us are the ones propagating ignorance yet blame does us no good. Much of this so called "knowledge and facts" is rather ambiguous don't you think? What is the difference between ambiguous knowledge, myth and mystery propagation?

As for the Clovis they disappeared but left traces behind yet that is a totally different discussion that is also very interesting.

Then it doesn't support your point at all.

Since my point is understanding these ancient civilizations and what happened to them then this is my point. I don't want to flood this thread with information about the "Clovis comet" (or Clovis Event), "Younger Dryas" period and the "Black Mat" charred layer found all over North America dating back to 10.900 BC yet this does point to a possible cause for extinction, global conflagration?

Actually, the "pre-classic period" during which the Maya civilization "began" was from 2000 BC 'til 250 AD.

You have better numbers than I do, I thought it was around 700 BC till 900 AD yet I haven't looked into it recently. My point isn't to focus on the Maya people as there were numerous other peoples around that area before and during the time of the Maya. I would like to stress the importance of understanding the knowledge that these people possessed and their epistemic inclination.

Do you happen to know if there's ever gonna be a time when all the planets have conjunctions -- preferably all Major?

I would like to point out that it was from the mysteries of these ancient astronomers and their calendars that got me deep into an understanding of the orbital motions of our solar system. I spent countless hours looking up and confirming the orbital parameters of the inner planets and plotting possible conjunctions through an astronomical program. With every answer came several more questions. One of the results from this work I did was the Venus pentagram that I posted earlier that many people say does not exist, BTW those dates and alignments are accurate down to the minute.

I plotted these conjunctions out and took hundreds of screen shots which I later looked at as a slide show. I noticed that every so often Mercury would join in these conjunctions (every 40 years I believe) and eventually Mars did also (400 years). The former were all inferior conjunctions and latter was a Mars opposition that was not exact, off by several days or more.

I have looked for potential alignments in 2012 (May- Solar eclipse, June- Venus Transit, and December 21st- winter solstice) of the planets and have found none. This is much more difficult than I had originally imagined so I keep in mind that I could be missing something. I did see a semi-proximal alignment with most of the planets but they were all offset in conjunction with the Sun, in other words they were not in alignment with the Sun on one end or in the middle. Because of this semi-proximal alignment I didn't pay attention to the date but I think it was in 2011.


[edit on 3/25/2010 by Devino]

Not much to add except thank you for making a thread about something that ATS really stands for... No Obama, No Antichrist, just good thinking and discussion.

Thank You Star and a Flag

Originally posted bt BeastMaster2012
I watched a documentary ( i watch a lot of documentaries) where they discussed this city [Teotihuacan].

I also like documentaries, can you link the one you're referring to? I'll do a video search and see what I find.

...they had small pools of water at different levels that were probably used as some kind of earthquake sensor, but who knows if this was true.

There is quite an interesting discussion in another thread on ATS about sound associated with these ancient sites that pertain to this statement I believe.
Sound - The Lost Secret of the Ancient Monument Builders is Finally Coming to Light!

I have commented on the use of water in these sites and the possibility as a use of wave function for whatever purpose. This opens up a whole new understanding for the evidence that is being presented.

I have not heard about the possibilties of belgiums coming to america. I need to look up DNA testing done on native americans.

There is a huge story of American history being uncovered here to put it mildly. From what I have read the Clovis Indians were Caucasian Americans that are thought to have come from Belgium linked together by their style of tool crafting. As Harte pointed out this is the Solutrian Hypothesis. The Clovis event wiped out these early Americans. This extinction event also killed off America's Woolly Mammoth, Saber-tooth Tiger, Horse, Camel, giant Sloth, ect...

As for Antarctica, i don't know if scientists are telling the truth about it. Weird things are happening there and i almost think that people are hiding the truth. I really think something is up down there.

Truth is the one thing that cannot be hidden, deception can veil the truth but if we look close enough it will be found. There are those that will lie to the public to "protect them" as they put it but again there are also many good researchers and scientists alike that openly publish their findings.

So if the Mayans, like the Aztecs, were given the calendar from the olmecs, we need to look into the Olmecs.

I love to read more about the origin of the Toltec/Olmec people yet I think this research can quickly bifurcate into a search for Atlantis. Here is some information about Maya temples, Tula Toltec Archaeological Ruins.
Notice the images of the statues on the site, "Telamons of Tula".

If the olmecs were black, who was quetzacoatl?

Quetzalcoatl is the plumed serpent, Lucifer, Venus, the Morning star and the Evening star or the bringer of light. This is the unity of these myths.

Originally posted by Harte
No, the Maya and the Aztecs lived at the same time.

It's just that the Maya civilization had suffered a steep decline.

They were eventually overcome by Spanish Conquistadors, just like the Aztec.

Well I had assumed that the Maya civilization ended around 900 AD, I stand corrected, and upon further reading I see that Wikipedia agrees with you.

As was said, they didn't disappear.

This was an assumption on my part with the word "disappear" that is repeatedly found in literature pertaining to these ancient civilizations. It is from this and the lack of evidence showing what happened to these people that ambiguity casts a shadow over their fate.

reply to post by Devino


Well, this still isn't quite accurate; the civilization did indeed crumble. But only in the way that the Roman Empire crumbled. The civilization did basically disappear, but its people and culture, not so much.

That's true.

After all, the Spanish met and wrote about the Maya.

They were still there then, in other words.

Harte