Most Men Are Victims of Porn - Pornography as Social Engineering

reply to post by liquidsmoke206

Come on! A smart guy like you? Oh you know what my comment meant. Come on mate!

And uh my comment is far from off-topic cause male porn stars are usually cast for and proud of their "big" guns...aherm, I mean big sticks.

reply to post by Exv8densez


still dont get it.

why are you insistent on talking about my penis?

yer weirdin me out bro

Just a friendly reminder to stay on topic.

The subject is: Most Men Are Victims of Porn - Pornography as Social Engineering.

Thank you.

[edit on 3/13/10 by GENERAL EYES]

reply to post by joeofthemountain


Good first thread Joe! S&F

For all of you attacking Joe, please remember this IS his 1st thread and he may not have been aware of how things work here yet. After today, and especially after the reaction this thread received, I'm sure he'll know better next time.

I think the essay made some good points about how porn creates impossible expectations, makes it hard for men to see women as anything but sexual objects and has turned the definition of manhood from a protector and provider to one who seeks to move from one sex encounter to another with children being the last thing on his mind.



Welcome to ATS Joe and get used to being flamed. The Christian conservative viewpoint really takes a beating here and you'll just have to learn to get used to it.



Edit to add: Anyone who disagrees with me IS NOT ALLOWED TO POST ON THIS THREAD.

[edit on 13/3/10 by FortAnthem]

It doesnt seem like a very well thought out and scientific theory in my opinion. And the most interesting premise, that being bombarded with images of the beautiful (or handsome) lead us to discount the ordinary, is borrowed.

www.psychologytoday.com...

"The perception of the comparison pool is changed," says Gutierres. "In this context our partner doesn't look so great." Adds Kenrick: "You think, 'Yes, my partner's fine—but why do I have to settle for fine when there are just so many great people out there?'" All you have to do is turn on the TV or look at the covers of magazines in the supermarket checkout line to be convinced there are any number of incredibly beautiful women available.

I personally think that porn is simple supply and demand. I dont think it was designed as a corrupting influence.

I also dont think porn is anything new. I think that those who claim that the ancient "Venus" statues were more likely to be ancient porn than Goddesses are probably right.

www.welt.de...



[edit on 13-3-2010 by Illusionsaregrander]

reply to post by liquidsmoke206

Sorry, didn't mean to go "YMCA" on you!

Well, I'm not talking about just yours; I'm talking about all the penises: their symbolism of soliloquy and power and how porn just reinforces that symbolism.
How porn is catering to the silly but dangerous secret fantasy of men’s sexual organs as weapons (sublimely).

That’s what really lacks in Henry MaKow’s essay which leans too much on monogamous traditionalism.

I somewhat agree with the OP in that porn can be detrimental to one's health when it is viewed in excess. Otherwise, moderate porn viewing is healthy.

I disagree with the OP in that porn gets men to think about sex or view women as sex objects. The fact of the matter is people are sexual atoms. They do not need porn to think about sex when they are full of hormones.

Virtually all men, including myself, to some extent view women as sex objects. When an attractive woman walks by wearing tight clothes, most men don't think to themselves, "I bet she has a great sense of humor and a good personality." Most men think, "check out the boobs and/or butt on her."

That is not to say most men are incapable of seeing women as something other than sex objects. Most men are capable of viewing their female relatives, female coworkers, and female friends as not being sex objects. These men will however, under certain circumstances, view some women as sex objects.

It's funny how the pro-porn people have to jump in to defend their favorite past time.

Maybe someday if you pervs have a wife and children, your view on porn will change...until then have fun hardening your heart and mind to the obvious truth of porn being a sweet poison.

The exact same argument as the OP can be made about something from the Female drive for freedom.

Was it Playboy who did this considering the long and historical, synthesis of culture, nations and erotic depictions?

Well before the advent of Playboy and therefore Makow's focus of blame in modern society Porn and the sexualisation of the "Girl Next Door" was rampant.

You only have to see the predominance of British and European "Saucy postcards" to plainly see this.

For example peruse the following link to the "Girl Next Door" sexualisation of Victorian Britain.

Some find the pictures more tempting than a modern obvious "paid" and "Plastic" teen as seen in playboy, some are much much more erotic, and much more tastefully done, and includes sublte two girls and ane man with bondage, all openly been sold in shops around the country, sometimes outside on the stands and not in "Red Light Shops" with shadey guys, raincoats and no windows:

Victoriporn

The idea that this was a NEW thing is only relevant in relation to the new generation and liberation after the total control of the first and second world wars.

Makow is punching way way below his weight on this peice imho. (excuse the pun lol)
Maybe he was caught with some and scolded in his formative years?

Indeed the phrase "Peep Show" which conjures up sexual connotations in modern society was originally phrased due to the very first Moving Pictures, which as soon as produced included far more erotic or Porn material than any other sold at the time almost immediately after being created by a collegue of Thomas Eddison who used the new Celluloid film media to depict sexual scenes, and was a huge hit and popular, in "Uptight" Victorian times. Again openly sold on streets outside shops:

Dickson left Edison's company to produce the mutoscope, a form of hand cranked peep show movie machine. These machines produced moving images by means of a revolving drum of card illustrations, taken from an actual piece of film. They were often featured at seaside locations, showing (usually) sequences of women undressing or acting as an artist's model. In Britain, they became known as "What the butler saw" machines, taking the name from one of the first and most famous softcore reels

History of Erotic Depictions

The Porn Film never mind mags and photo's was massive and all pervasive in society before the first plane flew.

The history of this is well known to go back to times when no political control could be wrought by it, for example the Greeks and Romans are famed for their Open and blatant depictions, and in the case of Rome with a "Emporer" controlling everything, and the senate not by true civil vote, what was the "Political Agenda" behind that?

Most Roman, greek and even minoan pottery and interior designs of shared public spaces, included depictions of naked women, and often included them with multiple partners at the same time.

Infact the depiction of actual intercourse was not frowned on for the last 4000 yrs of modern history in most of the "advanced" societies, this is a false urban myth that something changed in the 50's and 60's in this regard.

What really happened was that the First and Second World Wars, instituted a total control over the populace and society, and changed it over a couple of generations, then as always re wrote the true history of the "norms" of society previous to that, as there was few alive left to remember how things really were.

What is differant now is the sexualisation of Children and young women that never happened before. The Bueaty Pagent and make up and continuous smiling to please some strange middle aged judges, by 5-13 yr old girls does seem to be a new and worrying trend esp in the USA.

However the true, change took place politically as a form of change, not in normal erotic literature, pictures, depictions by men sexualizing the "Girl Next Door", marriage and its solemn life long committment was not changed by this as it has always been there. The media was used as a fantasy, by the single and also married, but on a no touch basis.

The real change occured due to chemicals. Namely the introduction of effective contraception due to "The Pill".

People could look but took a great risk of pregnancy prior to this period, this "controlled" womens behaviour more than anything, making them more faithfull.

With the ability to have many sexual partners and not risk pregnancy, the Pill Politicised the sexuality of women. Which led to the feminist movement (in its most active and braod sense, not votes for women etc), and therefore the blurring of lines between the behaviour of Women and Men.

Infact it is deeply stated now by many such as Germaine Greer, one of the founders of Feminism, and "Burn the Bra's" that if they could see the effect the liberalisation of women would have had on the family structure and therefore society in general. In retrospect she would have "Embrassed the Bra" and marriage, not advocating now the changes that are taking place to in the world with "Ladettes"

WOMEN themselves by their choices made available due to technology not a media that has been available in one form or another for millenia, politicized themselves and the issue, allowing themselves to change their until then long lasting attributes and part within society.

Not any Man in the sixties just copying the Romans, Greeks, and victorians with a modern camera and a colour printing press.

The memory was forgotton post WW2, and as stated the real C change happened due to women's behaviour and choices due to new medical advances.

Kind Regards,

Elf

Thank FortAnthem - appreciate the warm welcome. It has taken some time for me to find the right way to "see" ATS and I hope that I can do a better job now that I begin to understand what it offers.

With this post, I hoped to start a discussion with Christians interested in examining Makow's experience with pornography as an illustration of possible pathways into their own families, how to recognize the damage, and with luck mitigate against it before it becomes a problem.

Many of the posters here are obviously porn aficionados and I really see no benefit to me or them in arguing the basic fitness of porn to a healthy soul and a healthy nation. I think their comments proved my anticipation to be correct. I do wish them well, but my hope is to delve deeper into the affect than "does too!" and "does not!"

Perhaps that is a vain wish!

Anyway, I hope at least Dr Makow's experience provided an alternative symbolism for pornography. He is obviously no prude and is obviously highly educated and intelligent. Since so many (now) Christian beliefs are mocked and ridiculed as ignorant, uneducated, etc., this ought to prove that ad homenim is not useful in discerning truth, although it is very effective in stimulus-response conditioning and thus I use the technique myself when appropriate.

Originally posted by FortAnthem
reply to post by joeofthemountain

 

Good first thread Joe! S&F

For all of you attacking Joe, please remember this IS his 1st thread and he may not have been aware of how things work here yet. After today, and especially after the reaction this thread received, I'm sure he'll know better next time.

I think the essay made some good points about how porn creates impossible expectations, makes it hard for men to see women as anything but sexual objects and has turned the definition of manhood from a protector and provider to one who seeks to move from one sex encounter to another with children being the last thing on his mind.



Welcome to ATS Joe and get used to being flamed. The Christian conservative viewpoint really takes a beating here and you'll just have to learn to get used to it.



Edit to add: Anyone who disagrees with me IS NOT ALLOWED TO POST ON THIS THREAD.

[edit on 13/3/10 by FortAnthem]

There was a song back in my day called "Centerfold". It was one of the more popular requests for the bar band I played with at the time.

What sealed the deal for me was a discussion with a friend of a friend who markets Internet porn and has made more cash money from it than most people would see in a lifetime. Incredible amounts of profit. Incredible.

Anyway, he is quite frank about how the smut is produced and what it takes to "make" a porn star. Trust me people -- you would not wish it on your worst enemy, to be abused as many female porn "actresses" are abused.

It's sickening even to think about it, but I can say it probably doesn't apply to the stuff made in California etc. This cat is a Russian Jewish immigrant and most of his contacts are out of country.

Still, it would turn your guts to hear him. He himself has never maintained a normal long-term GF let alone wife. It's no wonder why. The drugs do keep some of his female sex toys around for a good long time though. God Almighty I pray none of my children get mixed up in this.


quote]Originally posted by Romans 10:9
It's funny how the pro-porn people have to jump in to defend their favorite past time.

Maybe someday if you pervs have a wife and children, your view on porn will change...until then have fun hardening your heart and mind to the obvious truth of porn being a sweet poison.

To the OP, this is a waste of a thread.

Seriously what is the point of making a thread and not be willing to discuss or debate anything.

If you believe that this is true, then why do you not want people who enjoy it to open their eyes and see your truth. Isn't that the whole point of sharing this information to show people what you think is really happening?

If your not trying to open peoples eyes, then what are you trying to do? get a pat on the back by people who agree with you?

Edit: but thanks for sharing anyway, I hope you see why your idea of no debate isn't going to work out in future.

Peace.

[edit on 5-4-2010 by _Phoenix_]

I think it's sad that people try to turn eyes away from the beauty of the human body and all the acts we do with it. If it is between consenting adults.

Nobody has a right to tell another person what they should not watch in their own house. We don't need millions of idiots judging what is right or wrong for us to do with our minds.

Everyone is so anti-government yet we spend a heck of a lot of time trying to run other people's lives. Look in the mirror....that's the person you need to manage.



sorry..I just have to vent. What was the topic again?

Dear Phoenix,

Honestly, I simply don't like wading through dozens of posts like yours. Nothing personal, but I am a corporate executive with a family and do this to connect with like-minded people in search of answers to the terrible situation we face in the US and the West. I think our time is short before the US collapses under its own weight of vice and corruption and I do not want to be crushed under the dead hulk.

So... There is absolutely no point in my time spent debating teenagers and young adults on the morality issues. In my opinion, you are incapable of seeing the problem and I really don't have time to babysit you through them.

A question you may wish to ponder to your own profit is, Why this is a problem for you? Why do you care? Do you expect to be catered to for everything in life? Is it really all about you?

For that, please go to your parents who raised you in narcissism -- as I said, I have far more important matters to attend than your need for attention and engagement.

By this I mean you no ill will and should your mind open to external potentialities, i.e., based on the "test of time" rather than self-indulgence or outright selfishness, I would be happy to engage you with knowledge and wisdom.

Until then, peace be with you.

Joe

Originally posted by _Phoenix_
To the OP, this is a waste of a thread.

Seriously what is the point of making a thread and not be willing to discuss or debate anything.

If you believe that this is true, then why do you not want people who enjoy it to open their eyes and see your truth. Isn't that the whole point of sharing this information to show people what you think is really happening?

If your not trying to open peoples eyes, then what are you trying to do? get a pat on the back by people who agree with you?

Edit: but thanks for sharing anyway, I hope you see why your idea of no debate isn't going to work out in future.

Peace.

[edit on 5-4-2010 by _Phoenix_]

Manbird,

You just wasted a minute of my life. This is why I respectfully asked that you and others with your self-ish opinions to look elsewhere for your attention-getting. I am not your father but I dare say it would have been better for you had he spanked you a bit more.

Peace be with you, but please waste no more of my time with juvenilia.

Joe

Originally posted by manbird12000
I think it's sad that people try to turn eyes away from the beauty of the human body and all the acts we do with it. If it is between consenting adults.

Nobody has a right to tell another person what they should not watch in their own house. We don't need millions of idiots judging what is right or wrong for us to do with our minds.

Everyone is so anti-government yet we spend a heck of a lot of time trying to run other people's lives. Look in the mirror....that's the person you need to manage.

sorry..I just have to vent. What was the topic again?

reply to post by Romans 10:9


"you pervs"
Which pervs are you talking about exactly? Be specific.

Having a family DOES NOT do anything to deter men from viewing porn (I assume you think only males view porn and therefore they are the only ones that need wives and children). Like another poster said before, people don't need porn, as the sexual instincts are already there with the hormones and such, other people have just harnessed this as entertainment. And that's all porn is - sexual entertainment.

To the OP, the article makes some valid points, but again, why is it assumed that only men view porn? Also, like another poster said earlier, extreme overuse of porn CAN become detrimental, but not always.

Originally posted by joeofthemountain
Dear Phoenix,

Honestly, I simply don't like wading through dozens of posts like yours. Nothing personal, but I am a corporate executive with a family and do this to connect with like-minded people in search of answers to the terrible situation we face in the US and the West. I think our time is short before the US collapses under its own weight of vice and corruption and I do not want to be crushed under the dead hulk.

So... There is absolutely no point in my time spent debating teenagers and young adults on the morality issues. In my opinion, you are incapable of seeing the problem and I really don't have time to babysit you through them.

Wow, how arrogant are you man?

I didn't even give you my view on the subject, all I did was try to open your eyes to how this forum works. But I guess your stuck on your way of thinking.

Well peace to you too.

Thanks for sharing that article. I agree with the basic premise, though I wouldn't necessarily blame "Playboy" or the pornography industry. I don't know who or what to blame, but I feel, personally, that this can adversely affect women as well.

I'm honestly confused and disheartened by the way some other women behave and treat themselves, and then call themselves "self-confident" and "self-respecting". We obviously have a different worldview, and how they conduct themselves is none of my business, but at times it seems like we are all expected to "flaunt it" and "shake it" and whatever else.

You could call me a prude. That's probably correct by our current standards. But I have a 6yr old daughter and I want her to grow up and respect herself and have a healthy relationship/family one day. I want her to find true love with a respectful partner, and I think the likelihood of that is lower when you behave the way many women/girls do.

I want the same for my son as well. I want him to be a good man and have respect for women. I don't think the prevailing ideology in our society promotes that.

We certainly see a lot of sex and drama throughout our media, but few examples of loving, intimate relationships. I think tv shows, pornography, even music and music videos, are widening the rift between men and women, causing us to be less connected and less satisfied.

Intentional social engineering? Maybe. Either way, the effects are troubling to me.

in Pompeii they found paintings on walls in a house. they are women having sex with men. so in roman houses they had porn on the walls. so it is very old. I bet a cave mans stick drawing on the cave wall was some times porn!
if porn was that bad . it would stop us working. so they (Gov) would Not use it.

After researching and reading about sigil magic, I came to the conclusion that porn can cause homosexuality.

Working with the premise that everything is an archetype (based on things I wont get into here), which is basically the sum total of associations to any given topic, the climax or money shot is the only constant. Basically, the receptive area of the money shot is a variable, specifically the female parts. Be it boobs, face, or whatever.

The only constant in the equation is a spurting shlong. (forgive my terminology, but there is no other way to put it.) The maximum emotional stimulus is during the "climax", of which the male ejaculation is the only constant. The female role becomes an irrelevant variable, which could feasibly hardwire an individual to respond to the constant rather than the variable.