22 YO Man Dies Of Dehydration After 3 Days In UK Hospital

Originally posted by Mr Sunchine
reply to post by Aggie Man

 

I fully agree that you are entitlted to your opinion. It is just that your opinion made me feel as though you are just another irrational Progressive/Socialist who would sell their soul to the devil if it meant that the government could take over healthcare in the US.

I don't fall on that side of the argument any more than you fall on the other side...this is simply an isolated tragedy that is being manipulated to be used as anti-socialized health care propaganda. This same type of neglect occurs in privately operated medical facilities as well. This is an issue with individual medical practitioners, not the system as a whole.

I certainly wouldn't sell my soul, but I do believe that health care should be available to all and that the health care industry is one that should be operated strictly as a non-profit industry. The people/corporations that profit off of illness are the ones that are making deals with devils.

reply to post by Aggie Man


Funny how it seems these 'isolated tragedies' of neglect seem to come from government run medical facilities, doesn't it? Can't be a sign, could it?

reply to post by Ferris.Bueller.II


wow, somebody dropped the ball,

I wonder Did he need IV fluids?

My daughter almost died from ketoacidosis, one of the side effects is dehydration, it took 12 liters of fluids to bring her back.

So sometimes it is not just like making sure they are given a glass of water.

What a shame.

reply to post by Ferris.Bueller.II


Not in the end result, no. There were deaths in both cases. A misdiagnosis is a mistake the same as not giving the patient water. If the patient was n.p.o. then he shouldn't have gotten any water, I don't know that whole case, and if he was n.p.o. then he should have gotten IV fluids. Two mistakes that both ended in death. Or are you saying that they purposely didn't give the patient water because they wanted death? I'm not sure I understand why you're making the distinction, is one mistake better than the other?

reply to post by zerbot565

just stop war mongering and selling your infrastructure overseas, simply as that ,

not only will you get free heathcare&medicare but you ll still have a buck for the elderly and disabled and last but not least , the school system and its pupils.

We could stop the wars and we still couldnt afford to provide healthcare to all while competing in a global economy and paying off our debt.

If you factor in our debt plus the unfunded portion of SS, Medicare and Medicaid we are like 114trillion in debt. That is even before we start passing out healthcare to people who cannot afford it now.

If we didnt spend anoter dime and used every tax dollar to pay off debt and unfunded liabilities we would spend rougly the next 50 years doing nothing but that.

A real good well ran healthcare system is a good idea, but it is just not something we can afford now or anytime in the future. Plus, people need to learn to fend for themselves. The government shouldn't have to become your parent.

reply to post by Aggie Man

I certainly wouldn't sell my soul, but I do believe that health care should be available to all and that the health care industry is one that should be operated strictly as a non-profit industry.

Glad to hear you wouldnt sell your soul. You could operate it as not for profit but the fact is then you give less incentive to be efficient or to innovate, because the fact is people are motivated to profit and not so motivated when they gain little more by trying harder. Sorry but it is just human nature.

Originally posted by Mr Sunchine
reply to post by Aggie Man

 

I certainly wouldn't sell my soul, but I do believe that health care should be available to all and that the health care industry is one that should be operated strictly as a non-profit industry.

Glad to hear you wouldnt sell your soul. You could operate it as not for profit but the fact is then you give less incentive to be efficient or to innovate, because the fact is people are motivated to profit and not so motivated when they gain little more by trying harder. Sorry but it is just human nature.

The care givers are not motivated by profit, the corporations are. The incentive to the care givers is the same as it always has been...to give care.

It seems like every quarter, the corporations make profit...but simply making a profit is not enough for them...they got stock holders to answer to and the stockholders want an increase in profit...it's not enough to remain steady...for them it's increase profit margins or bust.

When they have squeezed every penny they can out of the system, there is nothing left to squeeze except for the patients.

reply to post by Mr Sunchine


MY daughter, doesn't have health-care she is a type one diabetic, and the hospital did not discriminate, they literally saved her life, they wrote off the bill.

Her doctor charges her a forth of the price that those with health care are charged and supplies her with insulin, they are not all monsters.

There are doctors that would rather see a self pay, at lower rates to avoid the insurance or medicare/ Medicaid, and paper work

Recently my husband had skin cancer taken off, a new procedure that they normally charge the insurance companies 10,000, they charged us three hundred.

Obviously we don't have health care,

Another rip off of self pay is the hospital and insurance companies negotiate the bill, while the self payer is stuck most often, with the whole amount.





[edit on 023131p://bSunday2010 by Stormdancer777]

[edit on 023131p://bSunday2010 by Stormdancer777]

reply to post by Stormdancer777


That was very kind of your doctor. Now expand that and imagine that all patients he had were without insurance and he had to drastically cut his income. Think he would still be so excited to go to work? Maybe he would, but would because he was born extra nice, but would the whole industry.

Beyond that I am talking about real innovation. Like R&D for drugs and equiptment. If there wasn't money to be made there would be little to no investment in these things.

I don't trust government run health-care by the way,

Here is the difference,

smaller countries that have socialized medicine most likely have an easier time with this issue then one the size of America,

I have grandchildren on medicaid, I can only go by our experiences,

The doctors wont see them, they wont take Medicaid patients.

Yes we need health care reform, but not as it is written now.

Our proposed bill is not like the other countries with socialized medicine.



[edit on 023131p://bSunday2010 by Stormdancer777]

reply to post by Mr Sunchine

Think he would still be so excited to go to work?

I totally understand this point.

Originally posted by Ferris.Bueller.II
reply to post by boaby_phet

 

OK. That pretty much says it all. If you want to keep your blinders on and refuse the facts, then that's your business. Good talking with you. Bye.

an ironic end to this discussion, someone who knows nothing about a system yet fiercely talks against it, tells someone who has lived in the system all their life and knows no different "blinded" and " refusing the facts".


the irony slays me to new levels of slayedom

btw, do you and america actualy realise that just because theirs government healthcare you HAVE to use it, you can still go private, it will be up to you ... again, like it is here in the uk.

really, whats all the fuss about (in the policitical discussion that it)

reply to post by Mr Sunchine


Part of the problem as I see it is many doctors, insurance companies, hospitals, and pharmaceutical companies are in bed with the government,

In a perfect world, no one would go without health care, go hungry, or live on the streets,

This shouldn't be happening in this country, and I don't have any answers, but with the uber trillions of stimulus money, surely they could make everyone's life easier.

My daughter shouldn't have to beg for insulin for gods sake, while alcoholics and drug addicts get SS benefits, she can't?

reply to post by boaby_phet

btw, do you and america actualy realise that just because theirs government healthcare you HAVE to use it, you can still go private, it will be up to you ... again, like it is here in the uk.

As I understand it, ours will not be like that we will get screwed.

reply to post by boaby_phet



Also,

Our people on medicare and medicaid are not being seen now because the government is so behind in paying the health care providers,

My grandchildren even though they qualify for Medicaid, go to a free clinic.

We have a big stink here in our state because even the state workers health-care providers are not being paid.

Originally posted by Pimpish
reply to post by Ferris.Bueller.II

 

Why don't we hear horror stories coming from Canada all the time if socalized medicine is so bad? They seem to enjoy the healthcare up there from what I can gather.

Maybe because you don't look or are ignoring reports!

Canadian malpractice and Neglect

More

Even More

Zindo

Originally posted by Pimpish
reply to post by Ferris.Bueller.II

 

Not in the end result, no. There were deaths in both cases. A misdiagnosis is a mistake the same as not giving the patient water. If the patient was n.p.o. then he shouldn't have gotten any water, I don't know that whole case, and if he was n.p.o. then he should have gotten IV fluids. Two mistakes that both ended in death. Or are you saying that they purposely didn't give the patient water because they wanted death? I'm not sure I understand why you're making the distinction, is one mistake better than the other?

I have a feeling a good majority of people, whether medical professionals or not, know that water is pretty much essential for someone to live. Now properly diagnosing a medical condition as in the article you posted, and prescribing a proper treatment I think is a little beyond your regular person.

A couple big questions that aren't answered in the article is, did the floor nurses the patient was pleading with for water ask the ward doctor(s) if it was correct to withhold all fluids from him? And also how often do the ward doctor(s) visit each one of the patients under their care? It sounds from this article it is no more than once per day in this hospital.

reply to post by boaby_phet


I disagree.

This IS due to the system, but not the system in the sense of a free at the point of need NHS.

The reason we are hearing of 90 odd people dying of C-DiFF and other bacterial infections in a single hospital (Maidstone, Kent), and cases where people are left for days on a trolley in the corridor (all over the NHS), and cases where people who die of thirst or even starvation in the NHS, is due to PRIVATISATION measures.

So, in actual fact, it's not due to a state run health system, free at the point of need, it's due to part privatisation of these places.

Contract cleaners, instead of in house staff IS the reason for the outrageously high death rates from hospital infections.

Putting hospitals into a 'trust' status, is another reason why people die or suffer serious neglect. They try to cut costs everywhere, causing staff to be overworked and demoralised which leads to this sort of thing.

Multiple administration staff for every doctor employed by the NHS is frankly a mental persons rationale. A bit like having a dentist's surgery, with one dentist, but ten appointments secretaries!

Doing away with ward Matrons and sisters, to oversee the nursing staff, was one of the biggest mistakes ever to be done to the NHS.

While my wife was in our local hospital, having our second child, there was smears of dried blood over the floor in her bed area, and i had to physically go and fetch the Nepalese contract cleaner to mop it up, before i'd allow my wife to enter. Even then, trying to explain to her what the matter was took five minutes, as she didn't speak a word of English. Even then, her half hearted light 'swish' with a barely damp rag cloth failed to lift the patches of blood from the floor, and i had to insist she used proper disinfectant and scrub the area. I was appalled.

The Nursing staff however where absolutely top notch, if a little frayed around the edges from overwork.

Both my wife and i have nothing but praise for them at our local hospital.

Do away with contractors. Reinstate Matrons, and fire 75% of the admin staff. Sorted.

reply to post by Ferris.Bueller.II


It's that rationing that no one wishes to address! ! Can't ask Dr's questions because then you must pay them for another visit!! @@:

Zindo:

reply to post by Ferris.Bueller.II


if single episodes or facilities are all it takes to convince you an entire system is bad, take this one for our system here in the US

gothamist.com...


Neglect leading to death, on film, in a hospital whose past is littered with similar incidents.

You can not rebut this. It renders your argument moot, as it uses your precise logic. Accept it, learn, and grow.