Its too late to do anything now the damage is done. For over 20 years people have been warning others that we need to change our lifestyles and policies. The siberian permafrost which has laid frozen since the last ice age is now thawing and at present is releasing 8 million tonnes of methane(20 times more potent than CO2) and that figure is set to rise over the next few years adding more greenhouse gas.
I cant believe the human race has a whole is so mentally challenged arrogant and ignorant. Well serves people right, you made your bed now lie in it.....

The only problem that you fail to see is that humans are not causing this climate change.

This is a natural cycle and nothing more.

Weather changes and it's not just about what is happening on earth that decides the outcome.

We as humans have such a minute amount of climate data that is absurd to even think we can predict how our climate should stay or change.

There is nothing we can do about it IMO, but we can stop polluting the earth for other benefits.

I find it so funny that we think that 100 years of climate data can even begin to tell the story of the earths cycles. People tend to forget that our time on this planet is basically a blip in time that means pretty much nothing let alone our tiny time-line of climate data.

Originally posted by TV_Nation
The only problem that you fail to see is that humans are not causing this climate change.

The only problem you see is actually not even stated in the OP.
I clearly say this in the OP.

Its not about the blame.
We have to deal with this reality now, regardless of whether you think it is a natural cycle or AGW.

So you point out that there is a problem in that I fail to see that humans are not to blame. This is your problem because you have invented it as a problem.
This is called a strawman argument.

This is a natural cycle and nothing more.

But we need to act to the cycle.
That is my point. The cycle has consequences, the video and photographic evidence points to climate change. Therefor we need to react to it regardless of its cause.

Weather changes and it's not just about what is happening on earth that decides the outcome.

I agree, but we as humans can effect the outcome of climate change on billions of other humans, hence my point that we acknowledge it as happening and act accordingly.

We as humans have such a minute amount of climate data that is absurd to even think we can predict how our climate should stay or change.

The video evidence and photographic proof are not predictions. Read that twice so it sinks in.

There is nothing we can do about it IMO, but we can stop polluting the earth for other benefits.

You think that this is just about the weather. This is about how water will rise, how precipitation across the globe will change, how water ways and sources of irrigation and drinking water will dry up as glaciers melt for millions and millions of people. It will effect populations,food production, agriculture and livestock around the globe.

I find it so funny that we think that 100 years of climate data can even begin to tell the story of the earths cycles. People tend to forget that our time on this planet is basically a blip in time that means pretty much nothing let alone our tiny time-line of climate data.

What is funny is that we have hundreds of thousands of years of Ice core data, correlated with soil data and tree ring data. This details hundreds of thousands of years of earths climatic history.
And one of those records, the ice, is disappearing.
One of those records is disappearing, that has given us hundreds of thousands of years of its history.
And it is disappearing. Faster than we thought.

I think we ought to take note and act accordingly.


[edit on 7/3/10 by atlasastro]

Originally posted by loner007
Its too late to do anything now the damage is done. For over 20 years people have been warning others that we need to change our lifestyles and policies.

It may be too late to act in relation to those that feel AGW is the cause, but we can act on the changes regardless. Scientists are aware of the implication of glacier melts will have around the globe. So we can act.

The siberian permafrost which has laid frozen since the last ice age is now thawing and at present is releasing 8 million tonnes of methane(20 times more potent than CO2) and that figure is set to rise over the next few years adding more greenhouse gas.
I cant believe the human race has a whole is so mentally challenged arrogant and ignorant. Well serves people right, you made your bed now lie in it.....

We are also increasing our output and I agree it is past the tipping point as there is evidence sinks like the ocean have reached the capacity to act as compensation.
But we can still act.
I believe we can.

Big deal:

1. Even if this is true, I doubt Humans are a cause or contribute any significant amount. And

2. Even if Human's are the main cause, I doubt there's any possible solution to reverse or stop the trend at this point. And

3. Even if there are possible solutions to reverse or stop the trend, I doubt the benefits would outweigh the harms of said solutions. And

4. Even if some miraculous solution did exist that was low on harm and large on benefit, I doubt our leaders could ascertain said solution, much less implement it in a pure fashion.

So, I'll just choose to adapt instead. Thanks!

Originally posted by reptoidsonice
Big deal:

It is a big deal.

1. Even if this is true, I doubt Humans are a cause or contribute any significant amount. And

What do you mean if it is true? Point out the conjecture in the video, or the assumptions. Point out wee the video's and photographic evidence of the ice loss is not telling the truth.
And, whether we cause it or not is not the argument. Humans don't cause cancer to exist as a disease, but we generally react to it when we know it is a threat to our current status quo. The melting of this ice is a threat to the current status quo of how we as humans live on the planet.

2. Even if Human's are the main cause, I doubt there's any possible solution to reverse or stop the trend at this point. And

again irrelevant and not even on topic.
Did I suggest we reverse it? There are solutions to the problems that the changes present. We need to act on those by first acknowledging the changes are taking place(which you seem to be in denial of:

1. Even if this is true,

and acting on the changes that will inevitably happen on a global scale.

3. Even if there are possible solutions to reverse or stop the trend, I doubt the benefits would outweigh the harms of said solutions. And

Please enlighten us with your risk assessment detailing the benefits of action versus the harm of the implementation of the solutions to said problems.
Please list the problems from the glacial melts, their local, regional, global implications in terms of water sustainability to serve existing demands for municipal, industrial, agricultural, and environmental uses especially in regions dependent on glacial melts. You can do the same with the effect of glacial melts on sea levels.
What are the risks and harm assessments of preparing action plans to relocate populations and to prepare alternative water sources.
What are the geopolitical risks associated with implementing policy(both nationally and internationally) in relation to resource security specifically regarding water.
Will you assess a risk to third party nations keen to reduce the movement of refugees predicted or displaced peoples due to sea level rises or drought inflicted regions as a consequence of the observed and continuing trend of glacial melts around the globe.
I am really looking forward to your thoughts.

4. Even if some miraculous solution did exist that was low on harm and large on benefit, I doubt our leaders could ascertain said solution, much less implement it in a pure fashion.

You should know, apparently you can answer this question simply with doubt-

3. Even if there are possible solutions to reverse or stop the trend, I doubt the benefits would outweigh the harms of said solutions.

So, I'll just choose to adapt instead. Thanks!

No you won't. Because you don't even know what the actual problem is, or the scale. What will happen is you will be told what to do, by your leaders, because you probably won't actually get involved in the process of trying to raise awareness, implement change or become active in the process. Apathy is not adaptation.


That is what will happen.

Untill 'western' governments stop dumbing down the populace, and educate them instead, not much will happen, apart from plants growing faster, which perhaps will mean more food production, one good thing from 'global warming/climate change/new ice age'.
I wonder if the speaker was fed his figures by a global warming fanatic or did his own research?
I just cannot see less than 0.004% of the atmosphere heating up the rest.
Volcanic activity has gone up 300% in the last 2,000 years, all that sulfur dioxide, particulates, nitrogen, CO2, etc, actually more than humans produce per year on year.
As my son noted, if 0.004% of carbon dioxide can heat up a planet this size that much, with Mars atmosphere being 75% CO2, why isn't Mars boiling?

Originally posted by pikestaff
Untill 'western' governments stop dumbing down the populace, and educate them instead, not much will happen, apart from plants growing faster, which perhaps will mean more food production, one good thing from 'global warming/climate change/new ice age'.

Maybe.

I wonder if the speaker was fed his figures by a global warming fanatic or did his own research?

What part of the video and photographic evidence taken by the speaker did you suspect was given to the speaker by fanatics. Maybe instead of injecting hypothetical scenario's you could research the figures you question and then come to a conclusion that they were supplied by fanatics.

I just cannot see less than 0.004% of the atmosphere heating up the rest.

Did you see the video and photo's of all that ice melting?

Volcanic activity has gone up 300% in the last 2,000 years, all that sulfur dioxide, particulates, nitrogen, CO2, etc, actually more than humans produce per year on year.
As my son noted, if 0.004% of carbon dioxide can heat up a planet this size that much, with Mars atmosphere being 75% CO2, why isn't Mars boiling?

What part of the fact that ice is melting and will impact on the globe do you not understand? Ask your son if all the glaciers on land melt, what happens to see levels? What happens to water systems supplied by glaciers. What happens to populations that depend on the land that will be covered by sea rises and what will happen to those people that rely on the water supplied by the glaciers.

Tell your son that Martian atmosphere is much, much thinner to earths, the surface pressure of the martian atmosphere is 100 times less than the earths. So while it may be 75% CO2, it is not anything like our atmosphere so as to equate the two. Martian greenhouse effect has little absorption of solar irradiation. So while its atmosphere is 75% CO2 it is really thin with not much else. A lot of the CO2 actually freezes in winter which further reduces the atmosphere.

Tell your son though, that Venus has an out of control greenhouse effect that has the planet at 900F. Its planet has a dense CO2 atmosphere 90 times that of earths surface pressure, without which the planet would actually have a temperature of below 0 if it did not have its dense CO2 atmosphere.

Thank you for your reply.
Say hi to your son for me.




[edit on 7/3/10 by atlasastro]