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Point out where I said it was bad! That is great, but what about all the lands that are effected, that are currently populated. It would only be the arrogance of ignorance that would lead one to cheer about all this new land whilst ignoring actual real people that will lose, in some cases, their entire island homes. Over 100 milion people live within a meter of the mean average sea level at the moment. So you do the math if we lose all that glacial ice. Anyway, who am I to suggest that we actually think about the effects on others of these observed glacial ice and climate changes. WTF am I thinking!
So since currently around 2/3's of the northern hemishpere is unusable for 6-9 months out of the year (siberia and n canada), how is it BAD that these vast fertile lands could become productive with a warming period?
It has happened before and it was a good thing......
www.nasa.gov...
Glaciers in west Greenland are melting 100 times faster at their end points beneath the ocean than they are at their surfaces, according to a new NASA/university study published online Feb. 14 in Nature Geoscience. The results suggest this undersea melting caused by warmer ocean waters is playing an important, if not dominant, role in the current evolution of Greenland's glaciers, a factor that had previously been overlooked.
Originally posted by atlasastro
Originally posted by TV_Nation
The only problem that you fail to see is that humans are not causing this climate change.
The only problem you see is actually not even stated in the OP.
I clearly say this in the OP.
Its not about the blame.
We have to deal with this reality now, regardless of whether you think it is a natural cycle or AGW.
So you point out that there is a problem in that I fail to see that humans are not to blame. This is your problem because you have invented it as a problem.
This is called a strawman argument.
But we need to act to the cycle.
This is a natural cycle and nothing more.
That is my point. The cycle has consequences, the video and photographic evidence points to climate change. Therefor we need to react to it regardless of its cause.
I agree, but we as humans can effect the outcome of climate change on billions of other humans, hence my point that we acknowledge it as happening and act accordingly.
Weather changes and it's not just about what is happening on earth that decides the outcome.
The video evidence and photographic proof are not predictions. Read that twice so it sinks in.
We as humans have such a minute amount of climate data that is absurd to even think we can predict how our climate should stay or change.
You think that this is just about the weather. This is about how water will rise, how precipitation across the globe will change, how water ways and sources of irrigation and drinking water will dry up as glaciers melt for millions and millions of people. It will effect populations,food production, agriculture and livestock around the globe.
There is nothing we can do about it IMO, but we can stop polluting the earth for other benefits.
What is funny is that we have hundreds of thousands of years of Ice core data, correlated with soil data and tree ring data. This details hundreds of thousands of years of earths climatic history.
I find it so funny that we think that 100 years of climate data can even begin to tell the story of the earths cycles. People tend to forget that our time on this planet is basically a blip in time that means pretty much nothing let alone our tiny time-line of climate data.
And one of those records, the ice, is disappearing.
One of those records is disappearing, that has given us hundreds of thousands of years of its history.
And it is disappearing. Faster than we thought.
I think we ought to take note and act accordingly.
[edit on 7/3/10 by atlasastro]
Originally posted by TV_Nation
I like how you state that even if it is not a man made problem then we still need to do something about it?
How do you go about changing something you have no control of.
And speaking of strawman arguments your statement about doing something weather it is man made or natural is exactly that...
Originally posted by atlasastro
Tell your son though, that Venus has an out of control greenhouse effect...
Originally posted by atlasastro
Point out where I say that lance, or the video states that, or the websites I linked say that.
Originally posted by Long Lance
so, because there are glaciers that recede we are all doomed?
Let's pretend for a moment that one possibility exists, A sudden shift in climate, at the end of a a warming cycle. A shift that drops temps to the majority of central America and up to 40 and below F. I am not reciting a movie here, Just showing a plausibility. Our Co2 levels in accordance to current data have never shown such high levels therefor puts us in uncharted waters so to speak.Meaning that in this event and at the rapid warming and melting that we ARE seeing Could cause a complete shutdown of the Atlantic current, of which moderates the temp of the planet. Throwing the world into the beginning stages of a deep freeze. THat is what could be so bad...
Originally posted by heliosprime
reply to post by atlasastro
When the "last" ice age ended the glaciers melted away forming the great lakes etc. This exposed and warmed what we now call north america....
What caused the glaciers to melt? and how was that bad?.....if mankind moved too close to the oceans, its out of his own ignorance, he can move away....but it is still left to be seen if sea level will rise......
So show me the unofficial version Lance!
Originally posted by Long Lance
o really? that's the official version, i know, but there are several issues which aren't spoken about clearly enough.
The temperature trapped by venus greenhouse effect traps more significantly then earth dues to its dense carbon dioxide atmosphere. That is basic physics. Anyway there is a link below from ESA that will help with the points you raise.
the first is Venus' heat balance, which is dubious to say the least and more importantly, the heat is distributed uniformly, even though a day is longer than 250 earth days there (longer than a Venus year). the sun can't heat the far side, can it, so that would require lot of convection to keep it up and then there'd still be a huge difference in temperatures.
Sorry Lance, but this is simply untrue.
all well hidden behind that nearly impervious veil and sourced by nasa alone.
Venera 9 (Russian: Венера-9) (manufacturer's designation: 4V-1 No. 660[1]) was a USSR unmanned space mission to Venus. It consisted of an orbiter and a lander. It was launched on June 8, 1975 02:38:00 UTC and weighed 4,936 kg (10,884 lb). The orbiter was the first spacecraft to orbit Venus, while the lander was the first to return images from the surface of another planet.[2]
although you'll all consider me out of whack, just remember it when the time finally comes (hopefully).
oh, good we aren't doomed well, have a nice day then and direct your energy to something worthwhile
all well hidden behind that nearly impervious veil and sourced by nasa alone. this Venus greenhouse is likely part of the whole sham, just tbh, although you'll all consider me out of whack, just remember it when the time finally comes (hopefully).
I like how you state that even if it is not a man made problem then we still need to do something about it?
Point out where I say we need to change the problem.
How do you go about changing something you have no control of.
Explain to me how that is so my friend.
And speaking of strawman arguments your statement about doing something weather it is man made or natural is exactly that...
It doesn't matter. It points out the false nature of claims you make as a way of arguing.
Originally posted by Long Lance
reply to post by atlasastro
Russia (soviet era) once operated a couple of probes, today they are defunct and won't be replaced anytime soon.
Long Lance
all well hidden behind that nearly impervious veil and sourced by nasa alone. this Venus greenhouse is likely part of the whole sham,
Given the false nature of your previous statement regarding NASA, why should I accept your statement regarding the ESA?
ESA? give me a break they're about as independent in space as they are militarily.
The only meme being invented are those put forward by you Lance.
the fact remains, greenhouse effects on Venus are at best a theory and i can see how such a meme could be easily invented for use in exactly this type of discussion.
.
all well hidden behind that nearly impervious veil and sourced by nasa alone. this Venus greenhouse is likely part of the whole sham,
You are trying to introduce a lies that have nothing to do with the OP or the questions I have put to you.
i'm not trying to convince anybody because i know i don't have the data required, i only want to introduce the concept, it may prove useful over time (read: necroposting)
Russia and the ESA also produce data and research supporting Venus greenhouse atmosphere that is driven by CO2. Again here are the links to numerous research and results detailing that climate driven by greenhouse CO2 that induces tremendous temperatures.
all well hidden behind that nearly impervious veil and sourced by nasa alone. this Venus greenhouse is likely part of the whole sham,
the melting of glaciers may have significant effects or it may not, either way, we couldn't prevent it even if we wanted to. the climate won't just 'hold its breath' just because it would help you feel better.
this Venus greenhouse is likely part of the whole sham, just tbh, although you'll all consider me out of whack, just remember it when the time finally comes (hopefully).
i only want to introduce the concept, it may prove useful over time (read: necroposting)
TV_Nation
I like how you state that even if it is not a man made problem then we still need to do something about it?
How do you go about changing something you have no control of.
And speaking of strawman arguments your statement about doing something weather it is man made or natural is exactly that...