The $50 question: Grant or Reagan?

Time for a civics lesson:

1. No Reagan budget was ever passed by the Democrat Congress.
2. Reagan lowed taxes which quadrupled revenues to the Government.
3. The Democrat controlled Congress promptly spent it plus plus plus.

For those that are too young, the Soviet Union, which Reagan rightly called "The Evil Empire" was a huge threat. Reagan was a very strong leader during this time and his actions broke up the Soviet Union. There is no amount of recognition that goes too far to honor this man.

To answer the $50 question...Yes Reagan deserves to be on the 50 dollar bill.

Originally posted by Carseller4
Time for a civics lesson:

1. No Reagan budget was ever passed by the Democrat Congress.
2. Reagan lowed taxes which quadrupled revenues to the Government.
3. The Democrat controlled Congress promptly spent it plus plus plus.

For those that are too young, the Soviet Union, which Reagan rightly called "The Evil Empire" was a huge threat. Reagan was a very strong leader during this time and his actions broke up the Soviet Union. There is no amount of recognition that goes too far to honor this man.

To answer the $50 question...Yes Reagan deserves to be on the 50 dollar bill.

1)Please elaborate on why The Soviet Union was the 'Evil Empire'.
2)Please explain how Reagan 'won' the cold war.
3)Please explain what this man did that helped the people of this country, and not just benefited the top 1%.

reply to post by Carseller4


You make it sound like Reagan took a jet over to USSR and got in a fistfight with Gorbachev.

The Soviets pwned themselves by trying to compete against a free market economy with a closed market economy. The Cold War was a very tense standoff that spurred both countries into massive military spending. Reagan allegedly started this new 'trend' of deficit spending, but in reality he was just hoping that if he spent enough money he could beat the Russians, hopefully without bankrupting the country.

PUH LEEZ. It's impossible to raise revenue by taking less in taxes, let alone quadruple it. And even if he did manage to quadruple the government take, then the whole bit about him being the originator of deficit spending gets defenestrated, hard.



[edit on 3-4-2010 by Loki]

reply to post by Loki


I will explain the rise of revenue due to lowering taxes, it is actually quite simple.

It is called in business calculus as a maximum profit curve. I am a little rusty on this so bare with me.

Instead of explaining the tax component, let me put it this way, if you have a product and you sell it at a certain price you sell so many products. If you change the price you sell a different number. Now, there is a point where you will raise the price and you will no longer make more money. It goes in the other direction also. If you lower the price you can sell more product but then there is also a point lowering the price will make you less money.

Apply that to taxes in the same way, if you lower taxes, business will increase hence more revenue. Of course there is the same principle of max and mins to take into account.

Now just to make it really simple to understand, let us say you tax at 100%, do you think revenue would go up if you lowered taxes. Of course it would because no industry would operate at that rate, they would all be in another country with lower tax rates.

Clear enough for you?

leave it as is... it is not worth much anyways so why spend additional money we don't have.... not that the annointed one and his band of thugs care.

Originally posted by Carseller4
Time for a civics lesson:

1. No Reagan budget was ever passed by the Democrat Congress.

The Democrats did not hold majority in congress during the time of Reagan. From 1981 to 1987 there were more Republican representitives in congress overall than those of the Democrats. It true however that congress was still sufficiently split with the Republicans taking majority control of the senate and the Democrats taking majority of control of the house. No budget could get through without compromise, but the Republicans held most of the power at the time. That had the whitehouse, they held more representitives in congress, so I dont see how they cannot take any blame?

2. Reagan lowed taxes which quadrupled revenues to the Government.

Wheres your source for this? If Reagan quadrupled the revenues of the government how did the the nation end up with triple the amount of debt? This should be an interesting article from the Austrian School of economics and libertarian political and social theory:

In 1980, Jimmy Carter's last year as president, the federal government spent a whopping 27.9% of "national income" (an obnoxious term for the private wealth produced by the American people). Reagan assaulted the free-spending Carter administration throughout his campaign in 1980. So how did the Reagan administration do? At the end of the first quarter of 1988, federal spending accounted for 28.7% of "national income."

Even Ford and Carter did a better job at cutting government. Their combined presidential terms account for an increase of 1.4%—compared with Reagan's 3%—in the government's take of "national income." And in nominal terms, there has been a 60% increase in government spending, thanks mainly to Reagan's requested budgets, which were only marginally smaller than the spending Congress voted.

mises.org...

And no, Reagan didnt lower all taxes. he actually increased Gasoline taxes and welfare taxes towards the end of his term:
mises.org...

Where do you get your information from?

3. The Democrat controlled Congress promptly spent

Again you are repeating false information. The Democrats did not hold majority control over congress during the time of Reagan:
edition.cnn.com...

The Republicans controlled the Senate and held their own the whitehouse, the Democrats controlled the house. Overall there were more Republican representitives than those of Democrats. I will readily agree that the Republicans did require some Democratic support and vice versa during the Reagan administration, but much of the proposals were lead by Republicans.

And infact Reagans budget requests exceeded that of congress in spending:

Reagan asked for $29.4 billion more in spending than Congress passed.

zfacts.com...

For those that are too young, the Soviet Union, which Reagan rightly called "The Evil Empire"

Reagan didnt do anything to the Soviet Union beyond his acting. The Soviet Union collapsed by their own hands for a number reasons. One being that their system of communism inevitably failed them, another being the fact they overspent on their military to the point that their system could not sustain. There are other minor reasons to that as well, none of which has to do with Reagan and his rhetoric.

The conversation seems a little one-sided. So much for neutrality:

1) What of the fact that Reagan's second election carried 49 out of the 50 states? Seems some people thought the old man was doing okay in office.

2) What of fact that Reagan was often called the "Grandfather of the Country" because of his likability? Reagan always carried himself as an approachable type of person despite his and Nancy's glitzy Hollywood rich image. He was the teflon president, despite a divided Congress things were accomplished. Compare to today's super-majority.

3) Grant had a scandal ridden cabinet, caused a five year depression and often send troops to the South to protect Republican governorships during elections during Reconstruction. Let alone some of his behavior as a General: Drunkenness and General Order 11 forcing Jews out of three states.

Originally posted by Ahabstar
The conversation seems a little one-sided. So much for neutrality:

1) What of the fact that Reagan's second election carried 49 out of the 50 states? Seems some people thought the old man was doing okay in office.

2) What of fact that Reagan was often called the "Grandfather of the Country" because of his likability? Reagan always carried himself as an approachable type of person despite his and Nancy's glitzy Hollywood rich image. He was the teflon president, despite a divided Congress things were accomplished. Compare to today's super-majority.

3) Grant had a scandal ridden cabinet, caused a five year depression and often send troops to the South to protect Republican governorships during elections during Reconstruction. Let alone some of his behavior as a General: Drunkenness and General Order 11 forcing Jews out of three states.

1)When looking at his second election, you also have to take into account who he was running against. Mondale was not exactly a strong opponent.

2)"grandfather of the country" was as much an attack on his age as anything else.

3)And reagan brought us Reaganomics, which took a dump on the economy, he brought us GHW Bush, he is responsible for the biggest money laundering scam in history, The War on Drugs, he had a hand in Iran-Contra, he funded Osama Bin Laden and the mujahdeen(sp?) movement, he made sure elitest such as Paul Wolfowitz, Paul Volcker, Alan Greenspan and many more had a stronghold in washington....

Dont give me the 'his poo smelled like roses' garbage.

reply to post by captaintyinknots


I just threw it out there as a counterbalance for people to think about.

One of my best laughs in music was Prince's "Ronnie Talk To Russia" because of Reagan tough cowboy image against the USSR and communism in general. The Philippines used to exploit that for financial aid by repeatedly saying they were considering becoming a communist government. Reagan would have a signed check real quick.

[edit on 4-3-2010 by Ahabstar]

Originally posted by Dorian Soran

Originally posted by ProjectJimmy
What about also putting some great American non-presidential figure on the $50, perhaps Frank Lloyd Wright?

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

Please not him. He was WAY WORSE than any politician.

I grew up in the same city he was born in.

I got to hear about FLW the man - not just the myth or legend.

He left town oweing ALOT of people, including my grandfather.

His school in Spring Green was the site of many "personal" romps ( Affairs - so he is kinda like a politictian - Clinton anyway ) and it also included some murders and arson to cover up said murders - he wasnt in on the murders but....it was his place.

I could think of many better subjects to put on the $50 than Frank.

Just adding my worth to the collective.

Dorian Soran

The non-pandering doctor

Oh dear, terribly sorry I had no idea he did those things! I just tried to think of a famous American artist or architect and his was the first name that came to mind. Perhaps Georgia O'Keefe or Norman Rockwell instead?

The USSR collapsed because of Afghanistan and other things as mentioned in this thread.

But yes....let's continue making the same mistakes they did and fighting a war that will bankrupt our country!!!!