26 ft waves kill 2 on Mediterranean Cruise ship

reply to post by watcher73

I was speaking in terms of a given amplitude, in this case 26 feet. For a given amplitude a shorter wavelength gives a steeper wave.

I wasn't aware of the existence of rogue waves (or white squalls) being denied.
But that is what science is about. When you have evidence that doesn't fit the theory, you adjust the theory.

I noticed on the other thread they are calling them Tsunami waves.
Is that a mistake? Or is there an event being missed as in cosmic?
I swear, so many are these events of the past week, it seems we're living out a disaster flick and this is all the part where the story begins to build.
Melodrama, I know.



[edit on 3-3-2010 by randyvs]

reply to post by randyvs


No probs, just wanted to post the link so maybe both could link up and cuss and discuss.

It is someone else's thread, not mine.

Okay, so I'll post in this thread too then

Here's an example of the force behind a Rogue Wave...

This is from the Deadliest Catch series. They are sailing in 40ft swells already, 60 MPH winds. They were hit by a wave the size of a 5 story building.

Could it have something to do with the small earthquakes that have been happening over the past couple of days in the med

reply to post by findlesticks


I think Phage might field this question better not ignoring you for sure. Phage what do you say?

uberl33t

Here's an example of the force behind a Rogue Wave

Awesome vid. thank you for posting that.


[edit on 3-3-2010 by randyvs]

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by watcher73

 

I was speaking in terms of a given amplitude, in this case 26 feet. For a given amplitude a shorter wavelength gives a steeper wave.

I wasn't aware of the existence of rogue waves (or white squalls) being denied.
But that is what science is about. When you have evidence that doesn't fit the theory, you adjust the theory.

Oh I get you now. I think its funny that something theres usually only one of at a time has a thing such as wavelength.

On rogue waves:

wiki- Once thought by scientists to exist only in legends, because they did not accord with accepted models of wave motion[citation needed], rogue waves are now known to be a natural ocean phenomenon. Eyewitness accounts from mariners and damages inflicted on ships have long suggested they occurred; however, their scientific measurement was only positively confirmed following measurements of the "Draupner wave", a rogue wave at the Draupner platform, in the North Sea on January 1, 1995. During this event, minor damage was inflicted on the platform, confirming that the reading was valid. Satellite images have also confirmed their existence.

On white squalls:

wiki- The white squall, still thought by some to be myth, may be a microburst.[1]

In the movie White Squall, and probably in real life (movie based on a real incident) that the captain was found guilty of negligence because no one really believed in white squalls. I think this happened in the 1960's.

Before modern shipbuilding techniques and materials I think witnesses were few and far between since they both seem to have a tendency to sink ships.

A rogue wave in action, awesome power.

Originally posted by UberL33t

HEY!!! I mentioned it first I get to post it first!

~

Keep in mind that ship isnt small either. Between 150-200 feet. Awesome wave.



[edit on 3-3-2010 by watcher73]

Here's a good report that gives some of the characteristics of Rogue Waves.

Note: this is in pdf format, you'll need Adobe Reader to view.

Muller Rogue Wave

reply to post by findlesticks

Not related. Those earthquakes are tiny and these waves bear no resemblance to tsunami.

reply to post by watcher73

 

Keep in mind that ship isnt small either. Between 150-200 feet. Awesome wave.

Indeed, and the speed at which it was moving is rather breath taking as well...literally

reply to post by watcher73

Re: the wavelength of a "single" wave.

You seem to have no sense of context. Let me help you. This is the post I was replying to:

I don't see how this makes any sense at all . 26 ft ers should have no effect.
It's not like it could have been a breaker. At sea It would be swells? No?

This was my reply:

Storm seas are generally shorter wavelength (steeper) than swells. It takes a while for the seas which develop in a storm to change into long wavelength swells.

With long (though high) swells, a ship can easily ride up and over. With steep storm seas, the ship is more likely to plow straight into an oncoming wave rather than over the top of it.

I was explaining the difference between storm seas and open ocean swells.

But yes, there is wavelength associated with rogue waves, as this record (from your wiki source) shows, it can match the wavelength of the seas which produce it.
upload.wikimedia.org...
Even reported fair weather rogue waves have a wavelength, or they wouldn't be a wave. A rogue wave, like any wave, consists of a trough and a crest. The wavelength is twice the horizontal distance from the trough to the crest. Rogue waves, the ones that cause problems for ships, have relatively short wavelengths. They are steep.



[edit on 3/3/2010 by Phage]

Just in I been wanting to say that for a week now!

CNN is reporting that the wind is being blamed for the "freak" wave that
killed a German and an Italian man today. Just in.


CNN
We have another Quake in taipai 6.4. This is out of hand!

I glimpsed a thread a few hours ago that was saying something about
odd colored skies over Taiwan. Now a 6.4.

[edit on 3-3-2010 by randyvs]

so the ship sets back of to sail to carry on its journey once the two bodies' have been taken of. The ship has just been hit by a 26ft wave, lost two people and several injured but will carry on anyways, business as usual i gather

reply to post by anonymousproxy


Yeah I wondered about that as well, and what of the windows that were busted, are they able to replace those that fast? Not to mention overall bulkhead & deck integrity. How do they know this impact didn't knock a weld or 32 loose. I would be getting off the ship if I were a passenger.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by watcher73

 

Re: the wavelength of a "single" wave.

You seem to have no sense of context. Let me help you. This is the post I was replying to:

I don't see how this makes any sense at all . 26 ft ers should have no effect.
It's not like it could have been a breaker. At sea It would be swells? No?

This was my reply:

Storm seas are generally shorter wavelength (steeper) than swells. It takes a while for the seas which develop in a storm to change into long wavelength swells.

With long (though high) swells, a ship can easily ride up and over. With steep storm seas, the ship is more likely to plow straight into an oncoming wave rather than over the top of it.

I was explaining the difference between storm seas and open ocean swells.

But yes, there is wavelength associated with rogue waves, as this record (from your wiki source) shows, it can match the wavelength of the seas which produce it.
upload.wikimedia.org...
Even reported fair weather rogue waves have a wavelength, or they wouldn't be a wave. A rogue wave, like any wave, consists of a trough and a crest. The wavelength is twice the horizontal distance from the trough to the crest. Rogue waves, the ones that cause problems for ships, have relatively short wavelengths. They are steep.



[edit on 3/3/2010 by Phage]

I would have never guessed that even a single sinusoidal "wave" could still have a
"wave"length.


You seem to have no sense of context with the single rogue wave thing. Let me help. I was commenting on the fact that a rogue wave is usually just that, A wave, and that assigning a wavelength or FREQUENCY to something that is singular makes me giggle. But then again I was using the real definition of wavelength, and your reference was specific to the wave you were commenting on and really has more to do with some undefined ratio of wavelength to amplitude and ship size.

It's cool though if you want to forget you put "wavelength (steeper)" and concentrate on me not getting some supposed context that is mostly irrelevant to your mistake.

If you really want context, you just explained to all the retards that short wavelengths are always steep and long wavelengths are always not. Neither of those are true, but its what you said 'in context' with the rest of what you said.

Thanks for clearing all that up for me.






[edit on 3-3-2010 by watcher73]

reply to post by watcher73

You don't have to guess. If it's a wave it has a wavelength. If you want to measure that wavelength all you need is the distance between the trough and the crest. But since we're really just talking about the relative steepness of the wave that doesn't really matter.

No I'm not saying a 150 foot ship would have a hard time with 1 foot waves. I didn't say anything like that. You're being ridiculous.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by watcher73

 

You don't have to guess. If it's a wave it has a wavelength. If you want to measure that wavelength all you need is the distance between the trough and the crest. But since we're really just talking about the relative steepness of the wave that doesn't really matter.

No I'm not saying a 150 foot ship would have a hard time with 1 foot waves. I didn't say anything like that. You're being ridiculous.

Sorry I edited before I saw your reply.

Originally posted by sunnybunny
Perhaps this highlights the folly of mankind's attempts to predict and preempt disaster, i.e. Chaos theory reigns supreme. We mere mortals scrabble around to make sense of the data presented to us ...and are doomed to failure!

Chaos theory isn't the same as disorder. Quite the contrary, it means there's a natural order. Patterns repeat from the highest macro level to the smallest micro level. No sacred geometry or intelligent design required, it's just a function of nature.

reply to post by Crito

Yes, I already knew what chaos theory is thanks. Fundamentally, chaotic systems are unpredictable. I never said they were disordered!

I thought rogue waves happened in oceans. This on the Med. Are the size and depth of the Med. sea also important factors in wave formation? Did the smaller and shallower Med produce steeper or more powerful rouge waves than open ocean would?