If Barack Obama fails today, we’ll all be swept away

Originally posted by SpacePunk
It's a perfectly good bill if you hold stock in the health insurance industry, otherwise it's grade A poop.

exactly, they're all about the money, they don't give a spit about those people!!!all they're going to do is screw us into the ground and the people who will be getting the worse "screw you", are those it's supposed to protect!!!!!

I just watched a few minutes of the health care summit. I listened to the Democrat speak, and he made sense, talking about insurance pools and how once you get labeled as having a preexisting condition, you get stuck in a high-risk pool, at high cost. Then I listened to John McCain speak, and he pointed out the backroom deals with certain states, and how the American people in other states want that cleaned up. Then Obama brushed McCain aside, saying they were done campaigning, and weren't going to discuss this issue. I was so angry! I wish everyone who DOESN'T want this 2000+ page document shoved through, would just get up, tell Obama where to stick it, and walk out. What a crock of poop! I can't watch anymore of it.

reply to post by novacs4me


So how is this helpful, if they're going to still screw you if you've got preexisting conditions???? What even denotes a preexisting condition, and who decides? The fat cats in insuranceland no doubt.

I thought that part of this bill was to help those with preexisting conditions?
Just as I suspected Obama is a lowlife, scumbag, douche of the century, lying, decietful, garbage double talker!!!! I knew he was screwing us!!!!!!

I agree with you we need to ban together and squash this self serving bill!!!! We need to tear down all that is and start from square one!!!!!

Why do you have to have all these insurance companies, why cant you just have a national insurance that everyone pays like here in the UK?

not sure I understand what Obama is proposing?

reply to post by ldyserenity
I may have been misunderstood. My intent was to show that reasonable points were being made by both sides, a Democrat and then a Republican. I was listening, trying not to second guess where the discussion was headed. It was when Obama decided to silence McCain, who had as valid a point as the Democrat who had just raised his concerns, that I got rip roaring angry. I don't know how the bill helps or hurts those with preexisting conditions at this point.

reply to post by novacs4me


Great debate being had here. I am not able to watch the proceedings at the moment but will check out the highlights later. Sounds like it is getting fairly heated? Is Obama not allowing discussion of certian details such as pre-existing conditions?

Woodwardjnr: Although the U.S communicates in the same language as we do in the U.K, their culture is quite different. Socilalism is a bad word over there stemming from, i believe their misunderstanding of the word and the propaganda that was thrown at them during the Cold War.

What many Americans do not seem to realise is that hey already have socialised programmes when it comes to many things they take for granted.Welfare, Medical care for the elderly, School system, Public Libraries, Emergancy services. This is all provided through the taxes you pay and that your State government and Federal government distributes for the greater good of the community. That is basic Socialism, stripped of the more extreme parts of the ideology.



[edit on 25-2-2010 by Peruvianmonk]

Here is a news story on what just happened between McCain and Obama.

Originally posted by novacs4me
reply to post by ldyserenity

 

I may have been misunderstood. My intent was to show that reasonable points were being made by both sides, a Democrat and then a Republican. I was listening, trying not to second guess where the discussion was headed. It was when Obama decided to silence McCain, who had as valid a point as the Democrat who had just raised his concerns, that I got rip roaring angry. I don't know how the bill helps or hurts those with preexisting conditions at this point.

You quoted that they'd be paying a higher price, which is something that was NOT supposed to happen, and you were right, he cut off McCain wrongly not letting him speak, I was agreeing with you, about the whole thing, that this is something we need to put an end to going through.

[edit on 25-2-2010 by ldyserenity]

Originally posted by ldyserenity

Originally posted by novacs4me
reply to post by ldyserenity

 

I may have been misunderstood. My intent was to show that reasonable points were being made by both sides, a Democrat and then a Republican. I was listening, trying not to second guess where the discussion was headed. It was when Obama decided to silence McCain, who had as valid a point as the Democrat who had just raised his concerns, that I got rip roaring angry. I don't know how the bill helps or hurts those with preexisting conditions at this point.

You quoted that thy'd be paying a higher price, which is something that was Not supposed to happen, and you were right, he cut off MCCain wrongly not letting him speak, I was agreeing with you that this whole thing is something we need to get rid of.

The Democrat was saying insurance pools are not fair when a person with preexisting conditions can't get out of an expensive pool into a cheaper one. I can't put that in context, because he was speaking when I tuned in. He may have been speaking about CURRENT practices.

Originally posted by novacs4me

Originally posted by ldyserenity

Originally posted by novacs4me
reply to post by ldyserenity

 

I may have been misunderstood. My intent was to show that reasonable points were being made by both sides, a Democrat and then a Republican. I was listening, trying not to second guess where the discussion was headed. It was when Obama decided to silence McCain, who had as valid a point as the Democrat who had just raised his concerns, that I got rip roaring angry. I don't know how the bill helps or hurts those with preexisting conditions at this point.

You quoted that thy'd be paying a higher price, which is something that was Not supposed to happen, and you were right, he cut off MCCain wrongly not letting him speak, I was agreeing with you that this whole thing is something we need to get rid of.

The Democrat was saying insurance pools are not fair when a person with preexisting conditions can't get out of an expensive pool into a cheaper one. I can't put that in context, because he was speaking when I tuned in. He may have been speaking about CURRENT practices.

Yes and isn't that the point at which he stopped McCain from speaking about it? Did I misunderstand?(oh he stopped him from speaking about the deals made with the companies...nm...sorry.) Mostly right now you cannot get coverage with preexisting conditions at all, that's how it is right now so I assume they're talking about the bill making people with those preexisting conditions pay more? I could be assuming wrong, but I can see this as being the truth of the matter, that he's still going to screw the little people in this bill.

The fact he didn't speak in depth about it, points me to this conjecture.

[edit on 25-2-2010 by ldyserenity]

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
Why do you have to have all these insurance companies, why cant you just have a national insurance that everyone pays like here in the UK?

not sure I understand what Obama is proposing?

Obama is proposing a massive forced give away to the health insurance industry by mandating that everyone be forced to purchase insurance. The bill does not even touch apon health care costs which is the pink elephant in the room that everyone pointedly ignores.

reply to post by ldyserenity
I believe the Democrat (I'm trying to figure out who he was now by searching for live blogs about the proceedings) was done speaking, and then the Republicans were given a chance to speak. John McCain didn't speak about preexisting conditions, only the lack of transparency in the preparation of the bill.

reply to post by novacs4me


Yeah I rereadthe post, my mistake. I guess I'll have to suffer and watch it later on youtube, ughhh...just don't want to get over boiled...I guess I can suffer thorugh it once to see what exactly he said.

From a seating chart, I can see that it was Rep. Miller who was speaking before John McCain. I still can't find a blog of what he said about preexisting conditions. He was rambling on about his son's acne, his hip replacements, and had a five page document listing preexisting conditions for which Blue Cross / Blue Shield can deny coverage. I do think he was talking about current practices.

reply to post by novacs4me

12:21 p.m.: Sen. George Miller, D-California, gets a laugh from his colleagues when he uses himself as an example of being excluded from insurance coverage for pre-existing conditions:

"I sit here with 2 artificial hips, a little bit of arthritis, and I have a kidney stone. I'm dead in that insurance market if I have to switch policies or switch companies or want to look for another chance.

"Now, why should that be? Those hip replacements have been with me for 15 years and I have no trouble. But it's a way of denying me care."

SOURCE: www.cnn.com...

reply to post by novacs4me


Oh I see...I think better than a blog with what he said is we need a link to the 5,000 page Bill so we can read it all through...IT may take awhile but we may be able to get an idea of what it says about preexisting conditions.

I also am interested what it may have to say about people like me, who have not seen a physician in 5 or more years. I am into the holistic thing, which is always out of pocket and does work, regardless of what the FDA thinks. So I also want to know where I stand if I refuse to buy into the insurance for myself, but cover my children only and if There's a loophole or something that would get me out of the "mainstream" medicine that I truly think is unheathy anyway??? Maybe I could say it's against my religion...lol!!!

[edit on 25-2-2010 by ldyserenity]

Here's what I found at the washington post website...

Real health-care reform is supposed to eliminate discrimination based on preexisting conditions. But the legislation allows insurance companies to charge older Americans up to three times as much as younger Americans, pricing them out of coverage. The bill was supposed to give Americans choices about what kind of system they wanted to enroll in. Instead, it fines Americans if they do not sign up with an insurance company, which may take up to 30 percent of your premium dollars and spend it on CEO salaries -- in the range of $20 million a year -- and on return on equity for the company's shareholders. Few Americans will see any benefit until 2014, by which time premiums are likely to have doubled. In short, the winners in this bill are insurance companies; the American taxpayer is about to be fleeced with a bailout in a situation that dwarfs even what happened at AIG.

healthcare bill wouldn't bring reform

That's what came up when I did a search on the terms for preexisting conditions and the senate bill.


[edit on 25-2-2010 by ldyserenity]

reply to post by Peruvianmonk


The reason the US is nearing bankruptcy over the "old" system.. is because entitlement programs drain the system, there are way to many people sucking at the Government's teets than there are people paying in ..

The "New" system combines SOME programs, and then expands to include "everyone" .. however to achieve it, a NEW tax must be created, so US workers will now pay several Federal Taxes, another of which is unrefundable for over taxation .. Social Security. Medicare. Medicaid. Federal Income and now Universal Healthcare.

The average quality of healthcare for the Middle Class will decline extensively. The rich will see no difference, as they will have private practice.

Even with the total combining of Medicaid and parts of Medicare, the total extended cost will be $2 trillion .. a Washington estimate that is probably so far underestimated that 5 years from now we will see headlines about "surprise increases" much like every other social program.

Unlike Britain, the US will KEEP all insurance companies AND private hospitals.. because the Gov will be trying to cut corners, they will loose on on much pay, the whole system could unravel.

Instead of Universal Healthcare the US Gov wants to essentially be the middle man between payer and insurance company

Either way, pass or fail, the US is down the road to bankruptcy.

reply to post by Rockpuck


That is a grim assessment.Not that I disagree but it makes me wonder why is he doing it?

I wasn't going to watch more, but I did and caught something I don't see people talking about elsewhere. The president was talking about the cost of health care in California, and why it is so high. He mentioned several reasons, such as mammogram requirements, but the reason he didn't mention was the high number of uninsured due to illegal immigration. Shhh.... Nobody wants to talk about that elephant in the room!