God Does Not Want You to Know!

From what we have been led to believe about our existence, two people started out in a walled, enclosed garden. They did not have the freedom to roam the earth. They were confined. Why?

Was this due to a previous population that they were being isolated from? Were there other people outside of this Paradise Fema camp? Were they forbidden to interact with the outsiders?

What could have happened to bring the world to such a separation, where these two specimens were kept quarrantined?


In their compound there was an intrusion of some kind. It is referred to as the Tree of Knowledge. If they should eat the fruit they would have Knowledge of Good and Evil. (We know that "Tree" can refer to lineage of a species, like a "family tree". So "eating the fruit" may have meant having contact ( talking to or listening to) another being.)

Could the 'snake' have actually been someone from the outside who told them their true history? Had the world's population been wiped out again? Were Adam and Eve another genetic start, a quantum leap?

Why would God forbid his creatures to have Knowledge? Why would God not want man to be able to distinguish between what is right and what is wrong?

Originally posted by Alethea


Why?

like any experiment, to see the results.

[edit on 23-2-2010 by hautmess]

would you let your pedegree bitch wonder the streets with every possibility of picking up infections, disease or mating with a mongrel?

Pretty sure you would have it locked up too.

well, because there is no GOD like described in any book

what exists are people using and controlling people

thats why we cant evolve, we dont use our #ing brains

reply to post by Alethea


Because its just a story, that's why, and to the people of the time it placated their curiosity. It also works as a metaphor for our evolution, in that ancient people wanted to know where morality and social order came from, the Eden story explains that the reason we are self-aware, unlike the other animals, is because we ate this fruit that allowed us to understand good and evil. This is also the explanation for why we wear clothing. We have to remember that human beings have existed for at least 100,000 years and yet have only had written language for maybe 7,000 years meaning there were a lot of gaps in our history. People settled down and started larger and larger communities, legends and myths blended and changed and were eventually written down.

We're a species that has forgotten our own history

That's why there are so many legends and myths surrounding our lost years for which we have no record, even in modern day people postulate advanced civilizations or alien influence, well back then it was invisible gods on a mountaintop or in the sky.

reply to post by Alethea
The published version of this story was edited by people who were not about to entertain the existence of any sort of real god other than Yahweh. So a way of telling the story of the gods of the underworld is told in a metaphorical way, using terms that would have been familiar to the people of their day. All cultures have a concept of a tree of life, which is the handiwork of the benevolent gods. Also there are concepts of gods of death, since everyone has to become familiar with the fact of death, whether they like it or not. Fearing death and submitting to gods of death, wishing that their power can somehow defeat the natural laws, actually makes whatever sort of life you have, to become miserable. Being open to the benevolent god, in the clear light of day, and coming to terms with that spirit is what makes life enjoyable.

We were supposed to stay ignorant because it would be easier to control us that way. Why would "God" want us to become smart and take his place?
We were supposed to be dumb and just play around in the "garden" like any experiment should do. The"snake" saw that this was not fair and started to talk to us and showed us that this "garden" was not all that there was and that we were trapped and being lied to by "God".
How dare that evil snake show us the truth?
He ruined "God's" plan and we are evil and should die for listening to the truth.

Edit: Yes, there were others outside Eden, it is in the bible and other books. "God" marked Cain on the forehead so no one else would hurt him when he sent him out to the real world.

Edit 2: If you switch "God" with a scientist and the snake with an assistant and the words with newer words, then you can see this as many others believe it happened. I know that some of you don't like Sitching, but after searching and comparing stories, his explanation seems to be the most accurate and believable.

[edit on 23-2-2010 by Elieser]

[edit on 23-2-2010 by Elieser]

Ignorant people for a self serving God...the snake as always represents an adversary God and many times it's demonized, but in fact the snake should be considered our savior!

The whole Creation/Original Sin thing is where Christianity looses me completely. Creationist doctrine tells me that the basic order of the universe clearly indicates an intellligent designer. They often compare the universe to a well fashioned watch, whose delicately balanced mechanisms could only be the result of some superhuman mastermind.

If I am supposed to understand my existance as a sentient being on this planet as that of a mechanism designed by the devine then why is it that he insists on blaming me and the rest of humanity for eating the apple? If my car screws up I don't blame the car, I blame the manufacturer!

The Xtians answer to this conundrum is to assert that JHVH gave us little automitons "Free Wiill", but what good is free will without personal autonomy? Without personal autonomy Free Will is as useful as tits on a goldfish. If the Xtian doctrine is correct, then JHVH deliberately set us up to fail him! What does that mean?

Personally I have washed my hands of the whole organized Christian scene. Organized Christianity, like any organized religion, is nothing more than a for-profit business peddling salvation to the hopeless and the clueless.

Does anyone else think it's creepy that the end of the Book (Revelation) sounds a lot like the beginning (early Genesis) of the same book?

In Revelation it speaks of the New Jerusalem as being a city having gates. It seems like another Paradise Compound where certain chosen ones---perhaps those who are mind controlled and obedient---will be taken.

Has anyone else made that connection?



[edit on 23-2-2010 by Alethea]

Originally posted by ldyserenity
Ignorant people for a self serving God...the snake as always represents an adversary God and many times it's demonized, but in fact the snake should be considered our savior!

Here is an interesting postulation along those lines:

During the first and second centuries CE the serpent was worshipped with reverence by the Christian Gnostic sects of the Ophites and Naasseners.

These sects worshipped the Biblical serpent of the Garden of Eden that gave knowledge to Adam and Eve. The serpent was considered the hero because he supplied "gnosis" to the first people which God, considered the demiurge, kept from them.

www.themystica.com...

reply to post by Alethea


Did it ever occur to you that the gates could be to keep others out?
The book of Revelation is an end times book in the Bible.We are
living in those end times and time is running out.

hummmm...no shortage of blasphamy in this thread. God gave man everything He needed and it wasn't enough. Much like spoiled children today. The more you give the more they want.

This was after Adam and Eve ate from the "tree of knowledge"

Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever

This proves that "God" wanted us to be ignorant.
What does he mean by "one of us"?
Us means more than one, right?
So, the difference between humans and "God" was knowledge?
He gave us the tree of life so we could live for ever as a punishment?
Doesn't this stuff make you want to ask a few questions and look further in to what it all means?

And, No, the "Gods" did not give us everything, we were only pets and they liked us, we were amusing little talking monkeys and once we peed on the carpet, we got thrown out of the house like the rest of the other animals. It was going to happen eventually no matter what and it was not our fault. If we were just like the "Gods" then they were able to make mistakes as well and they did. The serpent was one of the "Gods" but he wasn't the boss.
I can go on and on about it but I really don't want to change your views, I prefer that believers keep believing as long as they don't hurt anyone else.

[edit on 24-2-2010 by Elieser]

[edit on 24-2-2010 by Elieser]

Original sin is a lie, how could we have sinned if we did not know what was right nor wrong?
Aparently we did not know much and we did not know that not following "God's" order was bad. After the snake talked to us is when we knew good and bad, right?
So, why are we cursed if we had no idea that what we were doing was wrong?

reply to post by Alethea

Does anyone else think it's creepy that the end of the Book (Revelation) sounds a lot like the beginning (early Genesis) of the same book?

In Revelation it speaks of the New Jerusalem as being a city having gates. It seems like another Paradise Compound where certain chosen ones---perhaps those who are mind controlled and obedient---will be taken.

Has anyone else made that connection?

It does seem to show a kind of continuity. I am most disturbed that it's a later developed model seen at the end. Instead of a garden, as at the beginning, it's a walled fortress city, with still an exclusion of undesirables kept out.

I fantasized at one time of being one living outside the walled fortress, wild and free, with a secret agent inside tossing fruit from the tree of life into the river that presumably would flow out at some point.

REV 21: 23 The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp. 24 The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it. 25 On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there. 26 The glory and honor of the nations will be brought into it. 27 Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life.

So really, it still ends up as a vision of a conquering emperor enthroned in a city with subjected people outside paying tribute(taxes). Not altogether satisfactory in my way of thinking. Must be nice living in that city off the labor of outsiders. I think I'd be looking for some area of the world outside of the reach of the empire. Live in some oak grove and eat acorns or something. Of course then I'd still suffer drought.

ZEC 14:16 Then the survivors from all the nations that have attacked Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the LORD Almighty, and to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles. 17 If any of the peoples of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD Almighty, they will have no rain.

I really don't want anything to do with that fortress. I don't want to attack it, except rhetorically, neither do I want to bow and scrape as a defeated person paying tribute in the fruit of my labor as a slave. There really should be some God more worthy than the one depicted here!

REV 22:14 "Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. 15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

Oh crap! I left out a whole bunch from the prophecy!

REV 22:18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19 And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

It's quite a frightening thing even to mention this book of Revelation. I added Bold mark ups. Oh crap! I guess I have the plagues too. Great!



[edit on 7-3-2010 by pthena]

reply to post by pthena

I fantasized at one time of being one living outside the walled fortress,. . .

I had something worse than just a fantasy.
I think it was a near-death out-of-body experience, back years ago, when I was in the hospital for two months, precariously on the edge of death.
Five demons came up through the floor and took me down a shaft, I suppose similar to what happened to Alice, falling and falling, then finding myself in another world. One where off in the distance was the walls of the "City of the Blessed", while I was stuck with people who really didn't know what it was, other than something to stay away from, lest you be killed.
To make the story short, remarkably it was God who saved me from this wretched sort of vision. So, maybe like you say, it is not such a good story, and not an invention of God.



[edit on 7-3-2010 by jmdewey60]

reply to post by jmdewey60

To make the story short, remarkably it was God who saved me from this wretched sort of vision. So, maybe like you say, it is not such a good story, and not an invention of God.

That sounds almost like an implication that the God who saved you isn't the same as the one enthroned in the city.

The book of Revelation bums me out. Plus I came across this thread after looking at another one about Christian views about Gentile dogs. The very idea of the existence of the concept of 'Gentile dogs' causes my hackles to rise. The OP of that thread was looking for Christian views, so I didn't have anything to add there, so I vomited my bitterness here.

Here's the link: www.belowtopsecret.com...

[edit on 7-3-2010 by pthena]

reply to post by pthena
This happened 25 years ago and I haven't yet figured out what I should learn from this experience.
Maybe that all the gloominess that is part of getting people properly religiously motivated is really only the work of demons, to trick everyone, or maybe just the preachers, into making sermons that only drive people away from God.



[edit on 8-3-2010 by jmdewey60]

reply to post by jmdewey60

This happened 25 years ago and I haven't yet figured out what I should learn from this experience.
Maybe that all the gloominess that is part of getting people properly religiously motivated is really only the work of demons, to trick everyone, or maybe just the preachers, into making sermons that only drive people away from God.

So much depends on a person's worldview. So much depends on a person's view of God. Demon, from the Greek root, means 'of divine origin', so the question is: are we demons or not? When and why did the word 'demon' become a pejorative? Why has it been demonized?

What God is it Christians are called upon to 'share' with the world? It seems to me to be the one who 'was in Christ, reconciling the world to Himself'. Would such a God be content to sit enthroned in a city, lighting the city while leaving those outside in darkness? Would any Christ sit content on a throne under those circumstances?

As for me, I have no use for a God sitting on a throne in a walled fortress. My God would be One who would say, "I myself will act the part of Prometheus. I myself will throw the fruit of the tree of life into the river. I myself will shake the tree, so the leaves meant for the healing of the nations are dispersed far and wide to the nations. I myself will break down the walls of exclusion. I myself will be the light shining in the darkness. I myself will be the air, the water, the nourishing sap rising through the roots and bearing fruit, the vine, the grape, the juice. Walls begone, go out my people, be the carriers of light."

If I, a poor benighted demon can imagine such a God, I should hope that God Himself can imagine even greater!