Important Issue Here, and it Involves All of US...MIND POWER.

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posted on Feb, 21 2010 @ 05:30 PM
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Slight change in topic for this page, but is relevant to the OP.







[edit on 21-2-2010 by Scarcer]




posted on Feb, 21 2010 @ 05:33 PM
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It's a real shame some people instantly associate any form of unconventional thinking as 'others' or some form of organization/cult etc.

I think this post is great, and over the last few years have started reading new scientist, which has got me very interested in particle + quantum physics, and although a lot of it goes over my head (ok WAY over my head) the links between spirituality, mental states and the completely baffling and unexpected events of things at a quantum level seem to share similarities.

I think there is a lot that can be learnt from some religions with regards to the meditative/shamanistic side of things if you don't instantly dismiss it all. And I think particle physics will start to slowly help link things and open up explanations of new ways of thinking; the more that is learnt about the physical makeup of everything around us, how particles and all energy seem to be linked etc it may open up new ways of thinking, and understanding about what the mind is capable of.

Either that or it will throw up even more insane and unexplainable situations that could lead to the end of all of us


But anyway, enough ramblings, great post... and I'm loving the video. It's great to have a super stupidified version of physics so people like me can understand things better
If only I'd tried a bit harder at school eh!



posted on Feb, 21 2010 @ 05:37 PM
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S&F for an incredible read.

Something I always thought about. Think to yourself, "I am going to freeze time for 1,000 Earth years". Did you? It can't be proven either way that you did or didn't, because everyone else would have been affected.

Then again, who knows what consequence a bunch of people freezing time for however long might have.



posted on Feb, 21 2010 @ 05:57 PM
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Originally posted by drew hempel
reply to post by traditionaldrummer
 


Fortunately qigong master Chunyi Lin has clearly demonstrated that spiritual healing is real --

www.youtube.com...

Chunyi Lin has been working with the top hospital in the world -- the Mayo Clinic -- and here's video testimonials of people he has healed of serious diseases using mind energy:

www.springforestqigong.com...

There's hundreds of research results showing qigong works -- many from Harvard tests and published in Western peer reviewed hard science journals.

So spiritual healing is real -- the question then is how does one develop it and why does it work?

I did this research for my masters degree -- the main practice is called the "small universe" or "microcosmic orbit" and it's the basis for the kriya yoga lineage in India, mentioned also in Professor Eliade's book on yoga and is the basis for the book "Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality" translated by Charles Luk.

You can read about it here as well for free

www.scribd.com...

So the important emphasis is to use the lower body energy as the power for the mind.

I figured out that the ultrasound is created from mind focus and piezoelectric pressure -- and ultrasound then ionizes the electrochemicals of the lower body -- this works through the vagus nerve as parasympathetic relaxation.

And then the vagus nerve vastly increases the serotonin levels in the brain as ionization enables large molecules to bypass the blood brain barrier. And then as more mind focus ionizes the lower body then greater electromagnetic fields are created.

Finally the pineal gland is permanently magnetized. In the Level 3 class of springforestqigong.com... Chunyi Lin touches your forehead to permanently magnetize the pineal gland and then you can transmit healing energy to others through the mind.

The full lotus yoga posture is the most efficient -- 20 minutes is worth 4 hours of any other type of meditation. Chunyi Lin went 49 days in a cave in full lotus in China through qigongmaster.com... -- taking no sleep, no water and no food the whole time.

This is called "bigu" in China -- Chemistry professor Rustom Roy held a conference on bigu and there are Western published results proving people going weeks without water and food while maintaining normal levels of nutrition and health.

I, myself, went 8 days on just half glass of water and yet my electromagnetic mind energy got much stronger -- the top of my skull got soft and pulsated with electromagnetic energy and I could electrolyze water from the atmosphere. I was never hungry and I needed less and less sleep and I did powerful healings on people, also I had telepathy, telekinesis and precognition.

So this is done, again, through the "small universe" or "microcosmic orbit" because the energy first goes up the back and then down the front so it is properly balanced and then the increased electromagnetic energy is stored in the "Lower tan tien" or the energy field behind and below the stomach.



Here is all the proof that one needs to know and understand that anything and everything begins and ends with the power of the mind.
I see there is not so much skepticism abounding on this topic thread but actually cynicism which is just as negative and unproductive as gullibility.

The mind is like a parachute, it only works when it is opened.



posted on Feb, 21 2010 @ 06:05 PM
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++++++++++++=


Reply to: "Scarcer" posted on 21-2-2010 @ 11:30
_____________________________________________________


Thanks for the vids... particularly the #2 video... it presents in high scientific terms what i said in laymens terms,
in the post immediately before your 3 vids.




St Udio
Aficinado - posted on 21-2-2010 @ 11:27 REPLY to: CleverNameHere


...rapists & murderers have cut themselves off from the development or practice
of this aspect of humanity. Their mind/brain/character is too dark and sinister ---
they are like the non-swimmer, more than likely prone (to) ---getting drowned in any water situation.


I would REVISIT the thread immediately before yours; by drew hempel - posted on 21-2-2010
@ 10:15 ...
who puts forth a great example.... Drews' example is not necessarily a singular, proven path
, or roadmap... [...] but the Unfolding 'drew hemple' post presents, is very unlike
the dark & sinister mindsets of baser driven individuals...
so drews' work should lead to being able to perform these Mind Power ~small miracles~



being less an academic than most, i put my ideas out in a flurry of ten-cent words instead of those fifty-cent words dealing with DNA, emotional psyche statures, vibratory resonances and the other stuff the video presented...


hey, thanks for the input


[edit on 21-2-2010 by St Udio]



posted on Feb, 21 2010 @ 06:05 PM
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Originally posted by jinx880101
reply to post by constantwonder
 


This thread is not about skepticism, I would appreciate it if you would not turn it into one.

No one is asking you to buy into a belief system. So stop assuming. I respect your view and opinion and thought you had a good discussion going until your last post. There is a difference between discussing something and being arrogant...


Yes calling people who come from the opposite side of this idea "d-bags" and "lost" is seriously lame. So when you critisize and call names then you are obviously expecting people to believe your idea or get lost. This is not what ATS is about.

Your lapdogs calling people names are the ones who originaly started the talk over skeptisism. I did not post anything to offend or for that matter impress you. I posted what i know to be factualy relevant to the discussion.

How was it arrogant to tell some guy that calling people "d-bags" over differing opinions that some people just aren't going to jump into some metaphysical hooplah just because you posted it.

I don't really care what your thread is about as long as you provide evidence and articulate arguments for or against. Peddling these pseudoscience ideas withouth having the slightest idea about what the physics and other sciences actually say about the subject matter is getting old.

We have a "what the bleep" style rule your own universe thread about 1 time a week. If everyone just came in and agreed with you what would that accomplish. . . . .absolutely nothing. Your trying to argue for your position trying to persuade the skeptics. That is the true spirit of ATS.

If you cannot handle rigorous debate and a few people who disagree with you then you may be in the wrong place. If you want everyone to respond positively to your posts how about some non-anecdotal evidence to back your theory. . . .

All I said was that calling names and barking barely masked insults is not going to get anything done. Not to mention the fact that the post wasn't even directed at you to begin with.

Believe me i would find it truely fantastic if the "what the bleepers" were right. However everything I know about physics, mathematics, and logic tell me that this is just another form of religion masquerading as scientific insight.

If you don't like my posts there is always that little button that says ignore., but if you hit it on everyone who doesn't agree with you then you may find alot of threads a little baren.

I will not blindly accept some whim of the imagination that has absolutely no substance. For faith to exsist one must have a reason to believe. Frankly I see no reason to believe in this as it's never so much as even given one piece of usable data.

I guess what I'm trying to say in short is pardon me if i don't jump on y our bandwagon. It's nothing personal



posted on Feb, 21 2010 @ 06:24 PM
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Originally posted by VenusOnTheHalfShell
Actually, there is a lot of scientific eveidence showing that collective consciousness affects outcomes. The studies on water molecules by Masaru Emoto show absolutely that concentrated thoughts on water affect its reality. Greg Braden lists many examples of scientific evidence accumulated lately that support the human mind and emotion affect outcomes.

And let us remember what one of our earthly masters of the quantum field left for us, lest we forget when the time of our coming of age occurs:

"He said to them, “Because of your little faith. For truly, I say to you, if you have faith like a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move, and nothing will be impossible for you.”

As we ascend consciously toward our 2012 appointment with the strong magnetic pull of the galactic center and the end of the last world age and great processional age, more will come to understand our human potential and use the energy of the mind as it was prophetically and cosmologically intended and collectively, all things are possible.



Here we go again playing the what the bleep card.

Masaru Emoto is a charlatain. Why? Because he doesn't share data he doesn't have any solid control samples in his studies. Why wouldn't he share his great discovery and all the data if it were really true. Also Masaru Emoto was offered 1 million dollars to recreate his results in a double blind study. . . he did not he is a fraud.

I won't even get into Gregg Bradens hogwas as the evidence against him is to much to count. ATS member Amenti has compiled a ton of it in this thread

www.abovetopsecret.com...

If you cared to do some resaerch you would find that there is no "galactic alignment" in 2012 nor any "alignment" of any kind. All it takes is the effort to google the information.

Then you go on to quote the bible. . . seriously what do you believe in? That passage is about faith in god not faith in your super psychic abilities. So are you telling me that god wanted us to have faith in some garbage a few new agers threw together to sell videos?

Remember when spouting about the faith the bible says you should have remember the verse Exodus 20:4


You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity




[edit on 21-2-2010 by constantwonder]



posted on Feb, 21 2010 @ 06:59 PM
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Originally posted by Jezus

Originally posted by constantwonder
Perhaps all of you who like to throw around the "observer effect" and the double slit experiment should take a moment to learn what is actually meant by observer. The human mind isn't some magical "observer" and it is certainly not the only "observer"


How do you explain this...

If two identical experiments take place.
Both measure the slit the particle uses.

AFTER the experiment
The data from one experiment is deleted.

Now, looking at the back wall reveals that if the data is deleted the pattern is a wave pattern (interference) but if the data is kept the pattern is a particle pattern.

Data available = particle must use one slit
Data deleted = particle can use both slits and interfere with itself


Doesn't this prove that it isn't the act of measuring but the potential to be observed by a person that influences the results?

[edit on 21-2-2010 by Jezus]



posted on Feb, 21 2010 @ 07:14 PM
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Originally posted by Jezus

Originally posted by Jezus

Originally posted by constantwonder
Perhaps all of you who like to throw around the "observer effect" and the double slit experiment should take a moment to learn what is actually meant by observer. The human mind isn't some magical "observer" and it is certainly not the only "observer"


How do you explain this...

If two identical experiments take place.
Both measure the slit the particle uses.

AFTER the experiment
The data from one experiment is deleted.

Now, looking at the back wall reveals that if the data is deleted the pattern is a wave pattern (interference) but if the data is kept the pattern is a particle pattern.

Data available = particle must use one slit
Data deleted = particle can use both slits and interfere with itself



show me this experiment. . . where is it said that taking data then deleting it would effect the system? thats backwards causality and thermodynamics (the most solid laws in the universe) says thats impossible. . . .



posted on Feb, 21 2010 @ 07:16 PM
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Originally posted by jinx880101
I think you are looking at it on the wrong scale...If we look at things at a molecular level, you will realize how something like an observer, can affect matter. (Which is what everything is comprised of, right?) Putting thought there, determines where the particles will come together, it's like they are waiting for a command...



oh no. i suggest that YOU are understanding this "on the wrong scale". you, and everyone else that is using quantum mechanics as their new religion.

in terms of scale, you are on a magnificently larger scale than a sub-atomic particle. and yet you are accusing someone else of confusing scale?

lets clear up this issue of scale and quantum mechanics, okay?

the ATOM is the observer of its constituent sub-atomic particles. only.

the MOLECULE is the observer of its constituent atoms. only.

the MACRO-MOLECULE is the observer of its constituent molecules. only.

the SUB-CELLULAR STRUCTURE is the observer of its macro-molecules. only.

.....

the PERSON is the observer of its constituent form, or body. only.
________

at each level of the micromacro-cosm, we are suggesting that each higher level "observer" acts as an organizing principle around which otherwise random "observed" processes collapse.

sub-atomic processes are random and uncertain in context of their own level. but in the context of an higher level form, the atom, their randomness coalesces into understandable behaviors.

each observer/observed pair is limited to its own higher/lower context. an observer CANNOT jump the system. period.

however, intelligence, itself, is an intersecting dimension of our 3D reality, and it expresses itself at every level of the micromacro-cosm.

thus: the will of YOU cannot bend a spoon....but the will of THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE can.


********

the question then becomes: how can you align YOUR will to the will of THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE?



posted on Feb, 21 2010 @ 07:33 PM
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Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by shagreen heart

thread totally derailed by traditional d-bag. he's lost, and he wants others to be lost with him.


Requiring proof and citation of fantastic claims and providing due criticism thereof is not derailing a thread. Not so surprisingly, instead of actually getting any proof of such claims all I can seem to get from the posters here are the kind of droll insults like the one you've delivered up.


if you actually care about this thread, look it all up yourself.

unless you're doing that, what you're doing is called derailing.

there was a beautiful time in our history when we investigated things simply because they needed to be known. now, it's easy not to care, or even be apprehensive of finding things out. especially when it comes to this subject, the inner self.

and most people are terrified to hold a mirror up to themselves. everything you deny and reject is a good example of that behavior. if you don't care or believe, why get involved?



posted on Feb, 21 2010 @ 07:37 PM
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Originally posted by djbj597922


So you still didn't answer my questions. Do you believe gov debunkers exist???


Frankly sir, I don't care. I was here to engage in my own conversations. The tendency to dismiss those with viewpoints differing from your own as "government debunkers" says a lot about one's perceptions.


Originally posted by djbj597922

And do you believe the observer changes reality???


I believe the observer perceives reality. Perhaps this is a reason you feel important enough that the government would hire professional debunkers to oppose your opinions on an insignificant web forum.



posted on Feb, 21 2010 @ 07:47 PM
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Originally posted by shagreen heart

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by shagreen heart

thread totally derailed by traditional d-bag. he's lost, and he wants others to be lost with him.


Requiring proof and citation of fantastic claims and providing due criticism thereof is not derailing a thread. Not so surprisingly, instead of actually getting any proof of such claims all I can seem to get from the posters here are the kind of droll insults like the one you've delivered up.


if you actually care about this thread, look it all up yourself.

unless you're doing that, what you're doing is called derailing.

there was a beautiful time in our history when we investigated things simply because they needed to be known. now, it's easy not to care, or even be apprehensive of finding things out. especially when it comes to this subject, the inner self.

and most people are terrified to hold a mirror up to themselves. everything you deny and reject is a good example of that behavior. if you don't care or believe, why get involved?


You seem to be under the impression that requiring citation of claims and proof of extraordinary notions is "denial and rejection" and "derailing". Please read more carefully next time. I do care and believe in human beings and request such citation and evidence when their thinking appears to deviate from known, established fact. Fantastic claims demand to be held up to scrutiny and if it can't, that makes the claimant the person in error, not me. If you or the others here are not up to the simple challenge of backing up their claims then perhaps the claimant or the claim has little value and may indeed be false. Are you here for truth or simply the notion that anything is possible and anything goes?



posted on Feb, 21 2010 @ 07:52 PM
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Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by shagreen heart

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by shagreen heart

thread totally derailed by traditional d-bag. he's lost, and he wants others to be lost with him.


Requiring proof and citation of fantastic claims and providing due criticism thereof is not derailing a thread. Not so surprisingly, instead of actually getting any proof of such claims all I can seem to get from the posters here are the kind of droll insults like the one you've delivered up.


if you actually care about this thread, look it all up yourself.

unless you're doing that, what you're doing is called derailing.

there was a beautiful time in our history when we investigated things simply because they needed to be known. now, it's easy not to care, or even be apprehensive of finding things out. especially when it comes to this subject, the inner self.

and most people are terrified to hold a mirror up to themselves. everything you deny and reject is a good example of that behavior. if you don't care or believe, why get involved?


You seem to be under the impression that requiring citation of claims and proof of extraordinary notions is "denial and rejection" and "derailing". Please read more carefully next time. I do care and believe in human beings and request such citation and evidence when their thinking appears to deviate from known, established fact. Fantastic claims demand to be held up to scrutiny and if it can't, that makes the claimant the person in error, not me. If you or the others here are not up to the simple challenge of backing up their claims then perhaps the claimant or the claim has little value and may indeed be false. Are you here for truth or simply the notion that anything is possible and anything goes?


the OP is an online article, and a movie anyone can watch.
stop playing dumb to derail a thread.

if you care as much as your ego does, investigate yourself.

behind every fear is a wish.



posted on Feb, 21 2010 @ 07:54 PM
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Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
I believe the observer perceives reality.




Are you aware that "observe" and "perceive" are basically the same thing?

Of course, the "observer" does "perceive".


He is asking you if you think the observer effects what it perceives, which is a totally different question.

Your answer is very...... telling.

If you don't think the observer effects what it perceives then you are basically ignoring a fact of life.



posted on Feb, 21 2010 @ 07:55 PM
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Originally posted by ALLis0NE

Why don't you go use google as your brain some more... maybe, just maybe, you might come across something called "thinking for yourself", or even "common sense".


Good day.


I'm sorry, sir. I have little respect for the opinions of an individual who is unable to carry on a conversation with someone without employing a constant and steady repetition of implying that their adversary is stupid. Once you choose to remain topical and engage in respectful discourse then perhaps we can have an engaging conversation about the topics at hand. Until then I hope you can overcome this arrogance and condescension and truly wish you the best. Have a great day, sir.



posted on Feb, 21 2010 @ 07:58 PM
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Originally posted by ALLis0NE

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
I believe the observer perceives reality.




Are you aware that "observe" and "perceive" are basically the same thing?

Of course, the "observer" does "perceive".


He is asking you if you think the observer effects what it perceives, which is a totally different question.

Your answer is very...... telling.

If you don't think the observer effects what it perceives then you are basically ignoring a fact of life.


This conversation was not between you an I. I expressed my opinion to the inquisitor's question. I am uninterested in the opinions of someone unable to remain polite in normal conversation - you had your chances. Good day, sir.



posted on Feb, 21 2010 @ 08:02 PM
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Originally posted by shagreen heart

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by shagreen heart

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by shagreen heart

thread totally derailed by traditional d-bag. he's lost, and he wants others to be lost with him.


Requiring proof and citation of fantastic claims and providing due criticism thereof is not derailing a thread. Not so surprisingly, instead of actually getting any proof of such claims all I can seem to get from the posters here are the kind of droll insults like the one you've delivered up.


if you actually care about this thread, look it all up yourself.

unless you're doing that, what you're doing is called derailing.

there was a beautiful time in our history when we investigated things simply because they needed to be known. now, it's easy not to care, or even be apprehensive of finding things out. especially when it comes to this subject, the inner self.

and most people are terrified to hold a mirror up to themselves. everything you deny and reject is a good example of that behavior. if you don't care or believe, why get involved?


You seem to be under the impression that requiring citation of claims and proof of extraordinary notions is "denial and rejection" and "derailing". Please read more carefully next time. I do care and believe in human beings and request such citation and evidence when their thinking appears to deviate from known, established fact. Fantastic claims demand to be held up to scrutiny and if it can't, that makes the claimant the person in error, not me. If you or the others here are not up to the simple challenge of backing up their claims then perhaps the claimant or the claim has little value and may indeed be false. Are you here for truth or simply the notion that anything is possible and anything goes?


the OP is an online article, and a movie anyone can watch.
stop playing dumb to derail a thread.

if you care as much as your ego does, investigate yourself.

behind every fear is a wish.


You're obviously unable to see beyond your fixed notion that I am here to "derail", or whatever you think. Perhaps you should investigate your own ego. I have watched the movie, have expressed my opinions and can't seem to get beyond a steady stream of people who are seemingly unable to handle normal and due scrutiny. But, feel free to believe in things that can't stand up to normal questioning and scrutiny.



posted on Feb, 21 2010 @ 08:03 PM
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reply to post by ALLis0NE
 




You said "If the effect was real, it would work every time. Real things that are actually true are consistantly true." That is the most incorrect and ignorant statement ever read on ATS.


Okay. Well, why don't you tell me something that is true about the way the universe works that is not consistantly true? I'll give you a hint: you can't, because thats not the way reality is.



So you know. I am a scientist. I have been studying physics for many many years.... nothing you said is entirely true, and nothing I have said is not true.


If you were a scientist you would appreciate the fallacy in what you have argued here, but since you don't, I am going to explain it to you very clearly.



The problem is, this mental effect on the universe is known to be very random.... meaning... if you want $20, you might find it on the ground, someone might give it to you, you might win it in the lottery, or you might find it in your dirty clothes.....you could find it anywhere, it's random.

This randomness fools everybody and is not noticeable until you pay attention. It could make you believe your mind isn't having any effect at all...... but that isn't true.

...

The actual "mistake" was just the random way the universe decided to work that day. The randomness is a part of the entire process. If you ask for something, or want something, you can't always choose how or when you get it, it is random.

This randomness is what makes people doubt. It is what made this simple mind power hidden for so long.

I understand your position, and the position of others. I was once in the same position. I saw no direct link from my thoughts to the way the universe was unfolding, because I was confused by the randomness...

It wasn't until later that I learned the randomness was actually a part of the entire process, and you can learn to see the randomness in everything.


So the effect is random? Then how can you possibly connect it to your intention? Random effects are called random because they are not connected to a causal precurser. The definition of a random phenomenon is that it does not participate in a cause and effect relationship in the conventional way. So how can you possibly say that you caused it? That's like saying, "I can think something, and it will cause something else to happen, but the thing that it causes will be random." Don't you see how rediculous that is? Promising that something will happen when you think about something is stating the obvious. Of course something will happen. I can think about blue elephants and the sun will rise tomorrow morning. How foolish would it be for me to say, "Oh look, the random effect of the power of my mind?"

You're claiming that your thoughts cause random events. Connecting random events to any specific cause is contradictary by the definition of the words. Furthermore your claim is not verifiable or repeatable, because you claim a random effect. There is no way to connect random results to a definite cause.




No actually. After learning the secret, I found that every single thought I had was creating my universe. There is no point at any time where this effect "fails". It never fails, and is constantly working, if you know it or not. If you wish for something and it doesn't come true, it's not because it doesn't work, it's because of your mind.


Don't you see the inherent fallacy of this? It is a tautology, it cannot be proven wrong under any circumstances. If the effect you predict comes true then you say you were right and it proves your theory. If the effect doesn't come true you say you were right and your theory is true, it's just that your mind wasn't working.

The halmark of a legitimate(not necessarily true, but legitimate) theory is that it is falsifiable. "Falsifiability or refutability is the logical possibility that an assertion can be shown false by an observation or a physical experiment. That something is "falsifiable" does not mean it is false; rather, that if it is false, then this can be shown by observation or experiment." The halmark of a bad theory is that it can be easily adjusted to make itself right under any circumstanes. That is what you have here; no matter what the reality, you will claim that your theory is correct.

These conceptual objections are very basic and fundemental. You're idea is senseless. It cannot be shown to be true or false, which makes it absolutely useless.



posted on Feb, 21 2010 @ 08:05 PM
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Originally posted by ALLis0NE
If you don't think the observer effects what it perceives then you are basically ignoring a fact of life.


yes. you are correct.


but HUMANS do NOT perceive ATOMS.

we perceive things that are much larger than atoms such as chairs and cars, which are themselves comprised of atoms. and we can act upon these things because they are at the same level as us.

Quantum Mechanics describes processes which we as humans are much much larger than......and as such, we can not directly influence their state.

yeeesh.





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