Important Issue Here, and it Involves All of US...MIND POWER.

reply to post by constantwonder


This thread is not about skepticism, I would appreciate it if you would not turn it into one.

No one is asking you to buy into a belief system. So stop assuming. I respect your view and opinion and thought you had a good discussion going until your last post. There is a difference between discussing something and being arrogant...

Actually, there is a lot of scientific eveidence showing that collective consciousness affects outcomes. The studies on water molecules by Masaru Emoto show absolutely that concentrated thoughts on water affect its reality. Greg Braden lists many examples of scientific evidence accumulated lately that support the human mind and emotion affect outcomes.

And let us remember what one of our earthly masters of the quantum field left for us, lest we forget when the time of our coming of age occurs:

"He said to them, “Because of your little faith. For truly, I say to you, if you have faith like a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move, and nothing will be impossible for you.”

As we ascend consciously toward our 2012 appointment with the strong magnetic pull of the galactic center and the end of the last world age and great processional age, more will come to understand our human potential and use the energy of the mind as it was prophetically and cosmologically intended and collectively, all things are possible.

Originally posted by VenusOnTheHalfShell
The studies on water molecules by Masaru Emoto show absolutely that concentrated thoughts on water affect its reality. Greg Braden lists many examples of scientific evidence accumulated lately that support the human mind and emotion affect outcomes.

Both Emoto and Braden are very widely debunked. A simple google search will reveal much about their tomfoolery.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by ALLis0NE

The spoon is a part of your body...

No it is not. But thanks for the review on the effects of positive thinking and mental conditioning mixed in with the insults.

I didn't insult anyone. If highlighting your ignorance a.k.a. lack of knowledge of this subject is an insult, then I suggest you learn more about this subject.

By the way, YES IT IS. The spoon IS a part of your body. Especially when you are holding it, and if the spoon is conductive. This means you and the spoon share electrons! Electrons, protons, and neutrons, almost all matter is made of it. All of the universe is one object.

..but since your ignorance is more powerful than you, you can go ahead and live life in state of sleep like you are now.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
The guy claiming the "money trick" (his words) did not seem to be referring to mental conditioning and if he were, his "positive thinking visualizations" only amounted to correlating two unrelated events as I had already stated.

The problem is you have a major lack of knowledge in this subject so you only THINK that the OP was talking about something else... Obviously, the title of this topic is MIND POWER.

MIND POWER is achieved through mental conditioning, and also visualization.... and more....

So you have lost your battle already by proving you know NOTHING.

I came here to describe what the OP was talking about but in understandable terms. I have been studying what the OP is talking about for many years now and know the things that people wish they knew.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
The claimed power of belief or faith even by your own explanation still has no tangible effect on the actions of the external world and serves only to make a self-conceived correlation more plausible.

It only appears that way because of your ignorance on the subject.

What you are doing right now, and you have been doing since the beginning of the topic, is mentally "seeking and finding" every single thing that you think disproves the OP. This means you WILL find things that YOU THINK disproves the OP, even though it doesn't. You are effectively using exactly the technique that you are telling the OP doesn't work.

What you should be doing is seeking and finding every single thing that supports what the OP is saying, that way you will become enlightened.

Until then, you are a close minded sleep walking zombie that is controlled by the external universe. You think you know but you know nothing.... and you already prove it.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
Also, spoons are not part of anyone's body, nor can they be bent using simply the power of the mind. And you know what I was referring to since I referenced Uri Geller and there was no need to make the point that your mind has to affect your hand and fingers to actually bend one. I'm uncertain what the point of that statement even was.

Again, spoons ARE a part of your body, but you lack a very important set of facts that allow you to see that. Right now you are technically sleeping if you don't know this..

The ENTIRE UNIVERSE is a part of your body!

Answer this question:

Are you a part of the universe?

If you answer NO, you are wrong. YOU ARE THE UNIVERSE. Just thinking about that will give you a good grasp at all the possibilities. It does sound like some new age thing, but it is REAL, and very old.

A spoon, if made of a conductive material, is a part of your body while you are holding it. The electrons from the metal will be shared with the electrons in your body. You are physically a part of the spoon. The spoon is nothing more than a collection of energy, just like your body.

If the spoon is plastic, it is still a part of your body. However with your human sense of the idea, you would think it is not a part of your body simply because you can put space in between you and the spoon. In reality that space is an illusion.

What you think is your body, is not, that is only part of your body. Your entire body is the universe. You are the universe experiencing itself.

If you so truly wanted, you could bend a spoon with ONLY your mind..... Actually there is no other way to bend a spoon.



------

Let me tell you a neat story.... a true story... very true.

One day I met two people who were friends with my other friend. I was actually talking to them about "the law of attraction" that entire night. Later, we ended up going to a restaurant to get something to eat.

Then, one of the people I was with didn't have enough money to buy a meal. So I told her, "Go ahead and order whatever you want, I will pay for it. Don't worry about repaying me because I know I will be payed back some how, some way, by the universe". So the waiter takes all of our orders.

Then time passes and the waiter comes back with all but one tray of food. Then the waiter looks at the girl and says, "I'm sorry but we accidentally started to cook the wrong meal for you. The error has been corrected, however, your food will be late, because of that, the meal is FREE."

Me, the girl, and my two other friends were just amazed! Here I was telling them the universe will pay me back for buying her a meal, then all of a sudden the waiter is saying the meal is FREE!

If I hadn't told my friend to order anything, the restaurant wouldn't have made the mistake, and she wouldn't have gotten a free meal.

So, in the end.... with my MIND and only my MIND, I got her a free meal.

That free meal did NOT exist before I asked for it. That free meal wouldn't have ever existed if it wasn't for my mind. In a way, I made that free meal exist with my mind.

You have to see the bigger picture of how our minds effect everything.

This is a very hard subject to describe to people who can't see past their spoon fed knowledge.

[edit on 21-2-2010 by ALLis0NE]

I like the ideas in this thread. I believe in the possibilities. now that we have heard from people who believe and those who don`t and have given seeminly valid reasons for both. It would be nice to get past the disagreements and get on with discussion of possibility. So if anyone puts the ideas expressed here into action, and sees some results. no matter how small lets hear about it.
JMHO

I don't know if you guys know this guy, Bashar. Yes i know this type of thing is usually BS but just look into him.



These are only a few there are many more.


though I'm very skeptical of these types of individuals and the acts most of them display. The only reason I even consider this guys is because what he's saying isn't harming anyone and it's even helping some people so who knows, I like what he says. Plus a lot of things he's saying is comparable to our current understanding of quantum mechanics (which is close to nothing in this day and age).

And another series which I haven't watched yet.



[edit on 21-2-2010 by Ominousbeing]

[edit on 21-2-2010 by Ominousbeing]

Originally posted by warpcrafter
I personally believe that it should be taken a step farther. Research psi potential until a method has been discovered to awaken its full potential in everyone, without living as a monk for 50 years first. If we were all so empowered, the people behind the scenes would be powerless.

There's the root of your problem. You want it "all & you want it Now".
Meaning you don't want to spend the 40+ years of individual study and learning to develop your mind and all the hidden mysteries that go along.
Instead you want someone else to do all the work, then just say the magick phrases and POW you can do everything. Well folks. Thats never going to happen. Each person must walk there own path, and yes it does take a lifetime. There is no pill to take and bang you wake up the other 90% of the grey matter. There is no quick & easy way.

One other thing after 40+ years of walking the path ( occult ) all the things Ive learned do you really think I'm simply going to "Gift" them to everyone. Never going to haqppen. You haven't earned the right. Beacuse you were too busy with your own lives. Then someone says it "could" be the end of everything on a given date and you start looking for a way to save yourself.

::hands YOU a cookie::
::pats YOU on the head::

"Just relax and when you finish your cookie you'll feel right as rain. You won't remember any of this stuff, and you'll go about your life and be happy"..

Originally posted by ALLis0NE

I didn't insult anyone.

You seem to have a proclivity for claiming that I "know nothing", over and over and over again in order to get your point across. Perhaps when you can discuss a topic without employing this condescending tic we may one day have a conversation personified by reasonable discourse. Until then, good day and best of luck to you, sir.

[edit on 21-2-2010 by traditionaldrummer]

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by djbj597922
Show me some scientific fact that says the observer doesn't change things. Because I can show you the double slit experiment that proves it does.

There are all kinds of experiments that display and reveal the mysteries of quantum mechanics and I'm not here to debunk them. I will however demand citations and proofs from those who exploit such mysteries to validate their mystical claims and beliefs. Perhaps you were confused about my posts.

So you still didn't answer my questions. Do you believe gov debunkers exist???

And do you believe the observer changes reality???

Two questions I would love for you to way in on!!!

[edit on 21-2-2010 by djbj597922]

reply to post by ALLis0NE


In response to your story:

This is the kind of thing that I have a problem with when people set out to "prove" their powers, or whatever you would like to call them. All the evidence is anecdotal. None of this stuff can be proven in under controlled experimental conditions.

What about all the times you wished for something and it didn't come true? Hasn't that happened way more than instances like this meal story? Of course it has, it's just that you remember the meal story because it is in agreement with your belief system, and you forget all the times your powers fail you because those instances disagree with you belief system. This is called confirmation bias. If the effect was real, it would work every time. Real things that are actually true are consistantly true.

What about physics? What about the way that science has explained the world so successfully? Every experiment ever done supports in a general way the scientific world view; that reality is a process of cause and effect and the effects are linked to the causes by physical processes. What you are suggesting is that reality actually works in an entirely different way, and the evidence that you are offering is this story and others like it. That does not stack up against the mountains of evidence supporting the picture of the world painted by the conventional physical sciences.

How do you propose that your thoughts effected the cook at the restraunt? What actually caused him to make the wrong meal? There has to be some chain of causaly related physical properties that actually led to him putting the wrong ingredients in the oven. How did your thoughts make it out of your head and into his?

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


That is all you got?

You can easily "debunk" all these names and theories that people are dropping on you... and you can easily tell people to google this, and google that......

....but when someone "debunks" you and calls out your lack of knowledge on this subject, all you can reply with is that?

Well I'm sorry buddy.... your one line posts that fill this topic are an insult to everyone who has studied the power of the mind for years.

You insulted everyone just by constantly dismissing philosophical truths that have survived the ages much longer than you have.

Why don't you go use google as your brain some more... maybe, just maybe, you might come across something called "thinking for yourself", or even "common sense".


Good day.

Originally posted by OnceReturned
reply to post by ALLis0NE

 

In response to your story:

This is the kind of thing that I have a problem with when people set out to "prove" their powers, or whatever you would like to call them. All the evidence is anecdotal. None of this stuff can be proven in under controlled experimental conditions.

Google video Ninel Kulagina my firend then way in on what you just wrote. "None of this can be proven under controlled experimental conitions"???? Have you ever seen the videos of this girl??? Please respond once you have done a little research on this girl. You said there was no controlled experimental conditions.... This woman proves you wrong. Research is key!

[edit on 21-2-2010 by djbj597922]

reply to post by djbj597922


I have not seen those videos, but I will google her and watch what I can find, and respond.

On a separate but related note, and directed towards all of you, what - in your personal opinion - is the best evidence for the existance of psi? There must be some pretty compelling stuff out there for you to have formed such strong beliefs. I'd like to hear what did it for you.

[edit on 2/21/10 by OnceReturned]

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

You say:
"Both Emoto and Braden are very widely debunked. A simple google search will reveal much about their tomfoolery."

So, you say we should believe the debunkers and not the courageous few trying to awaken the sleepwalking sheeple and open human minds and spirits to our true potential? That is sad. Are we to also believe that the many experiments with placebos showing the power of the mind over matter are false too? That is laughable. Honestly, what you believe is your business and your right, but what I know is truth, is. That's the crux of it all.

[edit on 21-2-2010 by VenusOnTheHalfShell]

[edit on 21-2-2010 by VenusOnTheHalfShell]

[edit on 21-2-2010 by VenusOnTheHalfShell]

Originally posted by constantwonder
Perhaps all of you who like to throw around the "observer effect" and the double slit experiment should take a moment to learn what is actually meant by observer. The human mind isn't some magical "observer" and it is certainly not the only "observer"

How do you explain this...

If two identical experiments take place.
Both measure the slit the particle uses.

AFTER the experiment
The data from one experiment is deleted.

Now, looking at the back wall reveals that if the data is deleted the pattern is a wave pattern (interference) but if the data is kept the pattern is a particle pattern.

Data available = particle must use one slit
Data deleted = particle can use both slits and interfere with itself

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


Fortunately qigong master Chunyi Lin has clearly demonstrated that spiritual healing is real --

www.youtube.com...

Chunyi Lin has been working with the top hospital in the world -- the Mayo Clinic -- and here's video testimonials of people he has healed of serious diseases using mind energy:

www.springforestqigong.com...

There's hundreds of research results showing qigong works -- many from Harvard tests and published in Western peer reviewed hard science journals.

So spiritual healing is real -- the question then is how does one develop it and why does it work?

I did this research for my masters degree -- the main practice is called the "small universe" or "microcosmic orbit" and it's the basis for the kriya yoga lineage in India, mentioned also in Professor Eliade's book on yoga and is the basis for the book "Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality" translated by Charles Luk.

You can read about it here as well for free

www.scribd.com...

So the important emphasis is to use the lower body energy as the power for the mind.

I figured out that the ultrasound is created from mind focus and piezoelectric pressure -- and ultrasound then ionizes the electrochemicals of the lower body -- this works through the vagus nerve as parasympathetic relaxation.

And then the vagus nerve vastly increases the serotonin levels in the brain as ionization enables large molecules to bypass the blood brain barrier. And then as more mind focus ionizes the lower body then greater electromagnetic fields are created.

Finally the pineal gland is permanently magnetized. In the Level 3 class of springforestqigong.com... Chunyi Lin touches your forehead to permanently magnetize the pineal gland and then you can transmit healing energy to others through the mind.

The full lotus yoga posture is the most efficient -- 20 minutes is worth 4 hours of any other type of meditation. Chunyi Lin went 49 days in a cave in full lotus in China through qigongmaster.com... -- taking no sleep, no water and no food the whole time.

This is called "bigu" in China -- Chemistry professor Rustom Roy held a conference on bigu and there are Western published results proving people going weeks without water and food while maintaining normal levels of nutrition and health.

I, myself, went 8 days on just half glass of water and yet my electromagnetic mind energy got much stronger -- the top of my skull got soft and pulsated with electromagnetic energy and I could electrolyze water from the atmosphere. I was never hungry and I needed less and less sleep and I did powerful healings on people, also I had telepathy, telekinesis and precognition.

So this is done, again, through the "small universe" or "microcosmic orbit" because the energy first goes up the back and then down the front so it is properly balanced and then the increased electromagnetic energy is stored in the "Lower tan tien" or the energy field behind and below the stomach.

This isn't something that you can learn through others.

Everyone's mind is different, and everyone's journey to Light is different.

What one person does to Enlighten himself, may cause another to trigger their own schizophrenia.

Imagine if the entire world knew the power it held?

It would be a massacre.

Everyone does not have the same mindset as you do, or I do.

Imagine if murderers, thieves, rapists knew how to change the world around them.

What would the rest of us be? Superheroes?

We must be careful who we let in on these "secrets." Otherwise, they will fall into the wrong hands.

Or "minds," I should say.

Originally posted by OnceReturned
reply to post by ALLis0NE

 

In response to your story:

This is the kind of thing that I have a problem with when people set out to "prove" their powers, or whatever you would like to call them. All the evidence is anecdotal. None of this stuff can be proven in under controlled experimental conditions.

I wasn't trying to prove anything. I was simply telling you how my thoughts completely dominated the situation and the situation turned out in my favor.

I can replicate and reproduce the effect a millions times over. If you want proof, the proof is not in the "how" it works. The proof is found by being able to reproduce the effect.

"The law of attraction" is not some "new" belief system. It is a VERY REAL and old effect the mind has on the external universe. The law of attraction was discovered by people who have full mental control, and were able to see how their mind effects the universe.

The problem is, this mental effect on the universe is known to be very random.... meaning... if you want $20, you might find it on the ground, someone might give it to you, you might win it in the lottery, or you might find it in your dirty clothes.....you could find it anywhere, it's random.

This randomness fools everybody and is not noticeable until you pay attention. It could make you believe your mind isn't having any effect at all...... but that isn't true.

You must understand we are talking about something that is subtle. Not some super magical super hero powers.

I have 100's of stories like the one I told.... it all comes down to my mind, and what I was thinking at the time.

Your thoughts effect the universe in many ways.

Originally posted by OnceReturned
What about all the times you wished for something and it didn't come true? Hasn't that happened way more than instances like this meal story? Of course it has, it's just that you remember the meal story because it is in agreement with your belief system, and you forget all the times your powers fail you because those instances disagree with you belief system. This is called confirmation bias. If the effect was real, it would work every time. Real things that are actually true are consistantly true.

No actually. After learning the secret, I found that every single thought I had was creating my universe. There is no point at any time where this effect "fails". It never fails, and is constantly working, if you know it or not. If you wish for something and it doesn't come true, it's not because it doesn't work, it's because of your mind.

The things I wished for that didn't come true actually didn't come true because I "expected" something to come true. When you "expect" something that means it hasn't happened yet, and will not happen. That is why they teach you to not "expect" but to believe it already is happening.

It works just like lucid dreaming. Whatever you think with your mind has a possibility of happening.

If you think, "oh I'm rich" then you will be rich in your dream. If you think "oh I'm going to be rich", then you will NOT be rich in your dream, you will always be in a constant state of "going to be".

If I wish for something and it doesn't come true, that doesn't mean it isn't working......

Why do you believe that to be true??

You think because something isn't working, or something is instantly reproducible or noticeable that it doesn't work? That means you are living only in the physical universe. You are only believing in what your senses can sense, and it was long ago proven that humans don't even sense half the universe. You are on the wrong path.

You said "If the effect was real, it would work every time. Real things that are actually true are consistantly true." That is the most incorrect and ignorant statement ever read on ATS.

The story I told is not a case of "confirmation bias". It's just a case of confirmation.

I have 100 more, and so do some of the most famous people in the universe.

We have realized and seen with our own eyes that our minds effect the universe and our reality. The effect IS reproducible, however the actual outcome is always different.

I can say with 100% certainty that our minds effect the external universe, and simply changing your mind will change the universe and make things happen. It's already been proven all through history.

Originally posted by OnceReturned
What about physics? What about the way that science has explained the world so successfully? Every experiment ever done supports in a general way the scientific world view; that reality is a process of cause and effect and the effects are linked to the causes by physical processes. What you are suggesting is that reality actually works in an entirely different way, and the evidence that you are offering is this story and others like it. That does not stack up against the mountains of evidence supporting the picture of the world painted by the conventional physical sciences.

So you know. I am a scientist. I have been studying physics for many many years.... nothing you said is entirely true, and nothing I have said is not true.

Science doesn't "explain" the world at all. Science is only the study of what we can sense. Science is basically like trying to figure out how a computer works by studying what the computer puts on the screen. That is ridiculous... Science is the study of HOW, not WHY, and science is blinded by their own limitations of sense.

Nothing I have said goes against ANYTHING scientific. You said reality is a process of "cause and effect", but, did you know that your thoughts are PHYSICAL??? Yes, all of your thoughts are physical. Every time you think, there is a physical reaction inside your head.... so where is the effect??? It's happening all around you all the time.

I'm not trying to create a new science, actually, nothing I said goes against anything scientific. Psychology is the "science of the mind".... and basically everything I have been talking about has been known in psychology for years now. It was actually discovered by psychologists.

en.wikipedia.org...

The problem is, you are under the impression that OP is talking about super powers, or some unseen force of nature that makes things happen. The reality is, your mind and you are the force....... its much more simple yet complex at the same time....

You have to understand the butterfly effect, and the ripple effect, and have a complete understanding of the BIG PICTURE that we are all pixels in.

Originally posted by OnceReturned
How do you propose that your thoughts effected the cook at the restraunt? What actually caused him to make the wrong meal? There has to be some chain of causaly related physical properties that actually led to him putting the wrong ingredients in the oven. How did your thoughts make it out of your head and into his?

If I wasn't thinking, and I didn't tell my friend to order the meal, the waiter would have never told the cook to make the meal, and the cook would have never made the mistake.

The actual "mistake" was just the random way the universe decided to work that day. The randomness is a part of the entire process. If you ask for something, or want something, you can't always choose how or when you get it, it is random.

This randomness is what makes people doubt. It is what made this simple mind power hidden for so long.

I understand your position, and the position of others. I was once in the same position. I saw no direct link from my thoughts to the way the universe was unfolding, because I was confused by the randomness...

It wasn't until later that I learned the randomness was actually a part of the entire process, and you can learn to see the randomness in everything.

"Everything happens for a reason." That used to be a quote I would ignore because it didn't seem fully true. It wasn't until later that I learned that almost all the old quotes that I grew up with actually have a much deeper meaning to them...

I have more to say but this is a difficult topic to express.

reply to post by ALLis0NE

I like your answer and the clarity in which you presented it. In the next post, he wants proof and all that. Hell this is too new and if it works, it works. Yes when you see something and then it happens, this is close to the way it works. When I cause movement of these objects and concentrate, I at times see them move, even though they haven't yet, but then they do. It is almost as though I pr create the movement in my mind as a rehearsal.

When it comes to really doing things of power with the mind, I think discussion should all be on a level of YES, it can be done and throw out all the negative. We are like a needle on a meter, if we read to the positive, that means energy is flowing and when the needle is forced to the negative, well obviously nothing happens. I know, I can shut off and start up. Those whom love negativity in anything resembling this, win if one were to accept this into themselves. We give empowerment to these people. So what I learned is, they are there, walk around and don't react. It works and I had dancing wheels all morning and I don't need need to hear any negatives as to why or provide proofs to anyone. Also, there is evidence in my home that others may pick up on it through contact with another, but this is only conjecture. Any needing training in this, let me know I would love to help out.

reply to post by CleverNameHere

...Imagine if the entire world knew the power it held?

It would be a massacre.

Everyone does not have the same mindset as you do, or I do.

Imagine if murderers, thieves, rapists knew how to change the world around them.

What would the rest of us be? Superheroes?

We must be careful who we let in on these "secrets." Otherwise, they will fall into the wrong hands.

rapists & murderers have cut themselves off from the development or practice of this aspect of humanity. Their mind/brain/character is too dark and sinister --- they are like the non-swimmer, more than likely prone getting drowned in any water situation.


I would REVISIT the thread immediately before yours; by drew hempel - posted on 21-2-2010 @ 10:15 ...
who puts forth a great example.... Drews' example is not necessarily a singular, proven path, or roadmap... as you seemed to suggest in the first sentences of your post,

but the Unfolding the 'drew hemple' post presents, is very unlike the dark & sinister mindsets of baser driven individuals... so drews' work should lead to being able to perform these Mind Power ~small miracles~


nobody's whistling Dixie over here, Thanks