If the first shots of the second American Revolution are fired, who are valid targets?

reply to post by Oaktree

There are people currently laying down their lives in defense of OUR Constitution and Republic, due to orders handed down by OUR government.

Yea, those brave men and women are part of our armed forces. They volunteered for that duty and do that job well.

It seems as if you feel that those who would choose to lay down their lives, at home or abroad, do not believe in our government, Republic, and Constitution as strongly as you.

That is ridiculous. Those men and women believe in our government and our constitution so strongly that they would be willing to put their lives on the line to defend them.

reply to post by whatukno

Yea yea yea, here is where the revolutionary pulls out the declaration of independence to show that they have a right to start blowing people away in the streets.

I remember the last topic of we had a discussion in. It went this same route. I said something and you put words and motives in my mouth. I'm not going to hesitate to just ignore if it continues like this.

The Declaration is our first law. If you don't like that then you are the type that really can "love it or leave it".

Childish saber rattling, because you are angry at a government for what? Being elected Constitutionally?

No. Once again, the Constitution created a Republic system of government. We are currently utilizing a Democracy system of government, otherwise known as "majority rules".

There is a reason the Founding Fathers specifically chose a Republic over a Democracy and that is because of the corruption of the majority/minority system. It is flawed and has forever been flawed. We should have no president where only 51% of the people prove of him, for that leaves 49% of the people to suffer under a decision that THEY did not make. Our current system is about as Constitutional as The Communist Manifesto.

So your only solution is to start blindly killing people because that is the only way you see to effect change?

Here, more words. Into my mouth. I don't appreciate it. There is no blind killing involved. The only place blind killing is involved is in this fantasy you have created in your mind that states all revolutions are lead by Neo Nazi's or Radical Islamic Jihadists. You view is corrupted and skewed. I am neither of those things and neither are the majority of the people I know that would lay down their life for YOU any day.

I have serious doubts that you want to fix this government through your revolution. My thoughts is that you just want an excuse to start blowing people away. You don't have any clue what to do afterwards, because in your heart you don't believe you would survive. So it doesn't matter to you what happens afterwards.

Even worst then putting words in my mouth is when people claim to know me over the internet, when in reality they have no bloody idea who I am or what I am capable of.

If I wanted to blow people away, I would have done it already. I have the means, I have the resources. I of course would die at the end of my spree, but according you you I already have no faith that I would survive, so what is the difference.

You will learn that pre-judging people will be a downfall. My heart is pure. I don't need to explain this again. I have no malice in my mind except for those who wish to oppress others. And as for knowing what to do, I have an exact plan for what to do. While I would like to survive to see the day where freedom is paramount in this nation, I understand that fact of realism and that I may not. Therefore I will pass on my plans and my creed so that somebody may follow in my stead.

Whatever you imagine me to be in your head, know now that I am NOTHING like that image.

You want real change, get yourself elected to office, change it yourself, see if you really have what it takes to be a leader and fix what is wrong in this country.

As I said before, I'm still waiting for the activists from the 60's, 70's, and 80's who were going to do just that. They had their high hopes of changing the system and fixing the wrongs. Where are they today? Whatever is left of them make up the corrupt leaders sitting in Washington. The others never made it, some of them still sitting in local government positions and changing nothing, others retired or moved on to more realistic things.

Going against the system politically you need the odds to be in your favor. They are not. They never have been. Going against the system via revolution - you only need numbers and the knowledge to do so. Substantially less requirements than the pipe dream of peaceful change that has been going on for half a century.

The power of voting is stronger than you think. Why do you think they spend all of that money on campaigning? Because everyones vote counts.

Actually, you are thinking a REPUBLIC where every vote does indeed count. However, what we has is in all actuallity a Democracy, where only a certain portion of the votes count.

For instance, in 2008, 53% of the American people had their vote "count" while the remaining 47% had their vote thrown away. It literally meant nothing. This is true on all levels on the Democratic system that we ARE NOT supposed to have.

We don't have to target anyone or start a revolution. Thats the beauty of the system. We can get together as people and vote the bad apples out and the good ones in.

Yeah... sort of throws that idea out the window.

A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine. -Thomas Jefferson

^
If you won't take my word for it, take that guy's. I heard he was a pretty smart dude.

"We the People are the rightful masters of both Congress and the Courts--not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution." -Abraham Lincoln

reply to post by whatukno

Yea, those brave men and women are part of our armed forces. They volunteered for that duty and do that job well.

I volunteer to be a part of the revolution. Yet somehow I am no brave?

That is ridiculous. Those men and women believe in our government and our constitution so strongly that they would be willing to put their lives on the line to defend them.

I believe in the Constitution too. What makes me and those who with to reinstate it to its former glory and less of men? I have already stated numerous times that I would die for this country if need be.

I don't know, you logic seems pretty flawed. How do you know those soldiers aren't just looking for an excuse...

to start blowing people away in the streets.

I guess because our government advocates it and tells us it is ok, then in your mind murder and death is just fine. However, if Big Brother doesn't give the signal, "Jihad" "bloodbath" "Zeikiel"

Double standards run amok.

Goodnight.

Most Nazi soldiers were family men just doing their jobs. But without them Hitler couldn't have accomplished anything. Do I feel sorry for all the good Nazi soldiers who were run over with tanks? Nope. They have no one to blame but themselves.

Just say no to domestic fascism.

since nobody has the balls to say what they really think and are trying to sound like cool little badasses by being civil and keeping things 'hypothetical' in a 'who would we kill?' situation (yah, ironic) i have no problem stepping up and saying very clearly that i would by killing anyone that worked in/for the fed and the IRS.

the fed is where all the power lies--the money. the fiat bull# it pumps out and completely controls our life with enslaves us, the system is so ****** up it hurts, sometimes i clutch a fistful of dollars so tight with hate... ugh.

anyway, boom, all dead. 13th amendment = bull#. the federal reserve = bull#. jackson tried to stop it. he was murdered and the bastards put his face on the 20. kennedy had full intentions to stop it. he was murdered too. is that not enough? dig deeper if you want. i'm preachin to the choir though.
we are being prodded with debt and begged to retaliate so they can write new laws to shackle us down with 'clean hands'.

whatever amount of native american i have inside me HOWLS with rage when i think about how this life... this world revolves around money. and then i swallow it, and send that rage into all my sinews and tendonds when i think about how it's all staged, a game for the rich to stay in power. they should be afraid. they have every right to fear us, because they cheat us and they know how much they opress us. if you ask me, they have no right to defend themselves, unless they wear armor made of $100 bills. then i'll show them how greedy they want me to be.

this is no joke anymore, stop talking hypothetically. the fed shouldn't have lasted a single working day in this country.

reply to post by gwydionblack

As I said before, I'm still waiting for the activists from the 60's, 70's, and 80's who were going to do just that. They had their high hopes of changing the system and fixing the wrongs. Where are they today? Whatever is left of them make up the corrupt leaders sitting in Washington. The others never made it, some of them still sitting in local government positions and changing nothing, others retired or moved on to more realistic things.

Going against the system politically you need the odds to be in your favor. They are not. They never have been. Going against the system via revolution - you only need numbers and the knowledge to do so. Substantially less requirements than the pipe dream of peaceful change that has been going on for half a century.

Why on earth would you wait for someone else to do your dirty work for you? Good lord man, I am glad our founding fathers didn't have that mindset or this country would have never gotten off the ground.

You want this government to change, run yourself, get yourself elected and change it dammit, don't wait for some old hippy to come along and change it for you, that's pretty lazy thinking right there.

If you want a revolution stop whining about it on the internet, go out and collect signatures, get on the ballot, get the looser that has been in office way too long out and change this country into what it should be. No one else is going to do it for you.

Don't give me this crap of the odds stacked against you, that's a defeatist attitude. I am trying, so can you. I might loose, but at least I can say is I tried, and if I am elected, I can only swear that I will do my best to make damn sure that our government changes to where it should be. That's the only promise I am making in my campaign. I will do a damn good job and work hard to listen to my constituency and make informed decisions that will benefit the nation and lead us back to freedom. I may not succeed, but I will give it my best shot.

You want a revolution? If I am elected I will give you one, and no one will need to fire a shot. It will be hard to do and I can't do it alone, I will need others with me. So why don't you join me and get yourself elected and change this country to what it needs to be instead of ranting on the internet about revolution?

I believe in the Constitution too. What makes me and those who with to reinstate it to its former glory and less of men? I have already stated numerous times that I would die for this country if need be.

Well, let's see, you, I wouldn't trust with a toaster, our soldiers, marines, airmen, and sailors have taken an oath to protect and defend this nation.

I guess because our government advocates it and tells us it is ok, then in your mind murder and death is just fine. However, if Big Brother doesn't give the signal, "Jihad" "bloodbath" "Zeikiel"

Damn straight, and you actually know the reason why.

Yup, political change is the ONLY way to fix the problems and have a good final outcome.

A clean transparent electoral system (no Diebold or electronic vote rigging)
Close public scrutiny of politicians, vote out anyone corrupt or immoral.
Clean up law enforcement and the Judiciary.
It would take DECADES to get right, and it just ain't going to happen.

As always, Americans want to see some action, some swift deadly force applied.

So you will get your revolution.
There will be much bloodshed, chaos, and total anarchy.

But to what end ?
What is the game plan ?

Do you really believe that enough looting, killing and destruction is eventually going restore prosperity to America?

reply to post by Silver Shadow

Yup, political change is the ONLY way to fix the problems and have a good final outcome.

A clean transparent electoral system (no Diebold or electronic vote rigging)
Close public scrutiny of politicians, vote out anyone corrupt or immoral.
Clean up law enforcement and the Judiciary.
It would take DECADES to get right, and it just ain't going to happen.

That's what I am saying. It is up to us to fix this government, after all it is our Republic.

You are right too, it's not going to happen right away, it will take time, but it can happen. If people want it to happen badly enough it can change and get better.

And it would work out much better for everyone than a bloody revolution. Least you know what you would end up with.

The answer is simple:

If the terrorists win:
They aren't terrorists anymore, they are revolutionaries.
Every casualty not a terrorist/Freedom fighter (remember, same thing, just different side of the issue) was justified

If the revolutionaries loose:
No target is justfied. It's murder from the first to the last victim.

Well if you fall asleep at the wheel and you wake up just in time, it maybe necessary to jerk the wheel a bit to get a necessary course correction.

However, there are very serious rumors that the course correction is being done with citizens backed by military support. The primary issue is one of Law -versus- Legal. We may very well be returning, in the very near future, to true Common Law and a pre civil war States United republic. It may not ever be known to the masses that it has occurred but judges and politicians may either come on board and stop the theft or loose their status immediately. Vast numbers of people within the government including high ranking military will back a legitimate peaceful course correction. This will include amnesty for all in office who choose to comply. The bottom line is that all the events have not only woken people up but made the fed up with the unlawful corporate state. The scam may die in the very near future.

Originally posted by Wolf321
Interesting.

So anytime you would hear a story about a cop,or an assembly worker at Smith & Wesson, or National Park Ranger getting killed by a person fed up with the government taxes/wire taps etc, you would think they had it coming?

Did I say they "had it coming"? No.

I was providing a list of valid targets during a violent revolt, otherwise known as a war. Nothing more, nothing less.

A perfectly interesting thread and hypothetical discussion is being ruined by off-topic conversation.

Thanks ATS, you do it every time.

On topic please?

Here is how I see it. Yes America needs a radical change from where we are now. I truly believe that if George Washington were alive today he would be one of the loudest opponents of what we have become as a country. Our "representation" on Capitol Hill are only interested in helping themselves, they tell the sheeple what they want to hear in order to get another term in office.

I would hate to see this country go through another violent revolution, but I am scared that we are reaching a point where there will be no other option. It frightens me to think of the country my children will be inheriting someday.

Before shots are fired though, I would hope that we could use the system to fix the issues. A long shot I know, but I can dream. The first thing I would change would be the two party system. All it has done for us in my lifetime is cause problems. During the Bush and now Obama administrations nothing gets accomplished. Even if the bill could be good for everyone. A person with an "R" beside their name won't vote in favor if someone with a "D" proposed it. On and on it goes. The people that are supposed to be looking out for us are too busy playing partisan politics and screwing the rest of us because of petty nonsense.

I am not a Republican. I am not a Democrat. I am not a Libertarian. I AMan American. As should be everyone else be in the country. I say we get rid of labels, of stupid little letters beside our names. I want to see an American Party. Founded, formed and filled with people who actually care about America. People who are willing to put aside their petty differences, people who will be willing to reach a compromise, people who will actually LISTEN to those they represent.

Maybe I've just gotten cynical, but I don't actually ever see this happening. Sad as it may be. I don't want to see this country fall. We were great once. Why can't we be great again?

reply to post by whatukno



My man you need to tool up your knowlege.

Your saying if it has two legs it must be a duck. Dont get so rightious just becouse you go out and collect signatures. I am all for you but dont be a fool about the political realities of the use of force.

The first shot in any revolution is purely the desire of the anti-christ spirit spoken of in the past which is now present. Any issue this vile spirit can exploit it will use to raise itself above whatever stars it may see. So when we all try to start the blame game, we should all remember what is to gain from whatever side of the line seen. When this is considered more closely we will see childish immaturity in the spirit of anti-christ "marching" towards a goal at what cost to others is no concern, only victory over the competition soon known as the manifested evil spirit of Cain murdering Abel. As these events compel mean to say the unthinkable and then the psychosis of committment to irreversible action, the spirit of the Anti-Christ will again manifiest in one man and all hell will follow him under a banner of greedy vain false justice.

What? Kind of question is this?
seriously?
NO COMMENT.
And on a more feet in the dirt response.
The first people to always become targets are the ones standing beside you in the crowd as the S&it tears loose, and then maybe just someone making it to the store or home and they have no Idea whats going on.
A populace.......organized?.......going after targets?
OH man

reply to post by Logarock

My man you need to tool up your knowlege.

Your saying if it has two legs it must be a duck. Dont get so rightious just becouse you go out and collect signatures. I am all for you but dont be a fool about the political realities of the use of force.

The signatures I am collecting are to get me on the November ballot to be elected as a representative. I also want to change the way this government is run. But instead of advocating the violent overthrow of a government that is by the people and for the people. I intend to change it through the means the founding fathers intended it to be changed.

The knowledgeable use words, fools use force.

reply to post by whatukno


Yeah, tool up on history indeed.

The "means" of the Founding Fathers?

You must mean a complete and utter violent revolution, which was deemed necessary by most of them except for John Adams, and it was basically stated that it would be necessary in the future.

You honestly speak as if you are the first person ever to grow a set and get elected into office on the chance of freedom. The point I made about the people from the past is that they were JUST LIKE YOU. And JUST LIKE YOU they are going to accomplish NOTHING in this corrupt system.

The most you are going to accomplish is making a crap load of political enemies and perhaps making a few people happy here and there. That is the extent of your "revolution". That is considering if you even make the ballot, and that is considering people actually vote your in. Like I said, save all the talk of change you are going to bring until you actually make office. It is all fun to talk about like it is just around the corner, but when you get to the reality of it, it is going to more than likely be a let down.

Of course it all depends on what position you are running for. Local government? State government? FEDERAL government? Gets harder as you go and you gather more enemies along the way.

I will take my chance on the REAL American Revolution so that people like you, who DO want to make a difference, can actually be considered for this faulty government.

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by gwydionblack

 

Yea yea yea, here is where the revolutionary pulls out the declaration of independence to show that they have a right to start blowing people away in the streets.

Childish saber rattling, because you are angry at a government for what? Being elected Constitutionally?

What? Is there a problem with running yourself? Getting elected yourself, and changing what is wrong in this government?

Wait! Don't tell me, it's a conspiracy and you wouldn't be elected because you aren't THEM!

So your only solution is to start blindly killing people because that is the only way you see to effect change?

I have serious doubts that you want to fix this government through your revolution. My thoughts is that you just want an excuse to start blowing people away. You don't have any clue what to do afterwards, because in your heart you don't believe you would survive. So it doesn't matter to you what happens afterwards.

It's juvenile angst against authority, combined with fundamentalist ritualistic dogma. Simply put, it's a bunch of [snip]

You want real change, get yourself elected to office, change it yourself, see if you really have what it takes to be a leader and fix what is wrong in this country.

We wouldn't be blowing away people in the streets. "Blindly killing people"? No. The purpose of this thread, as stated before, was to determine who would be valid targets, ie: justifiable. "Valid targets" being the ones who hold influence over, and offer corruption to our government; Those who let corruption prosper throughout our government. It's not "juvenile angst against authority" It's knowing our rights and being prepared to use them if no other means are possible.
Getting elected wouldn't do a whole lot of change. Half of us here would likely fall into corruption ourselves or be overwhelmed by the complete facade.