The Modern Art Idiocy

Originally posted by ArMaP

Originally posted by masqua
For some reason I truly can't nail down, his style of painting, in the later years of his life, reminds me so much of Vincent Van Gogh (who was my earliest inspiration).

Could it be the way the brush strokes overlap instead of mixing with each other?

I'm going to say it's pathos

Which I know is almost impossible to explain

Like masqua - Van Gogh was the first to really get under my skin too

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


Oh, it's not about dissent!
One of the most fun times I remember was having a heated discussion in an Amsterdam cafe regarding Van Gogh and Rembrandt. I adored it.

"Dissent" implies discussion - and the discussion part ran out very quickly.
That's the problem, as I see it: there was (almost) no discussion. Nay-saying while ignoring other people's arguments is no discussion.

And I was really looking forward to that.
Because art - or rather, the question what IS art - is more important a subject than it may seem at first glance.
And to me, personally, it is an endlessly enjoyable topic.

reply to post by Vanitas

Because art - or rather, the question what IS art - is more important a subject than it may seem at first glance. And to me, personally, it is an endlessly enjoyable topic.

Absolutely agree with you here - I never get tired of discussing it either. Some of the best conversations I've had in my entire life were all about art, communication - creativity in general

:-)

I do have very warm and fuzzy feelings about this thread though. It's fascinating to read back through it. It's as divided as some of the political threads - and isn't that interesting?

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


Again, I don't think it's really divided.
It's more like a series of parallel monologues (sometimes insulting).

But I do get a warm and fuzzy feeling about you and other posters like you.
And I am not being sarcastic.

Well, I'm not an artist or even someone that considers myself a valid art critic. However, I do enjoy going to art galleries.

My view on modern art has changed over time. When I was a kid (elementary/middle school), I used to have a complete disdain for modern art. Literally, a lot of it would make me angry because someone making millions off of a piece that looked like a preschooler could produce seemed like the embodiment of The Emperor's New Clothes to me. Looking back, I wonder how hilarious/annoying it was to see a little kid loudly complaining about the art.

However, my appreciation grew as I got older. It's interesting to look at, it makes you think, and a lot of it seems to be political/activistic in nature. I don't avoid the modern art galleries now. I still prefer other types of art, but modern art has its place.

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis


Look! It's more than just blotches of paint :-)

Well....those are quite good in my eye. They are not blotches of paint.

I am a Science fiction /fantasy artist I have been insulted by popular art culture for a while,witness my ire:
news.bbc.co.uk...

reply to post by Skyfloating


Which beggars the question: Why would an artist, who is so adept at magically re-creating reality, spend even an hour being entranced by the effects of 'splotches' of colour on a canvas?

I can understand it because I've done it and I liked it. Whether or not it's appreciated by anyone else is secondary to the experience. In other words, true artists don't really care what others think and only those who pander to the general public's idea of what art 'should be' do so for the $$$$'s alone. In that respect, there's a million paintings of cute kittens and Elvis Presley you can find in yard sales for $5.00.

reply to post by LeSigh


It sounds like you actually invested thought in the whole process - which is the most anyone could ask for regarding art.
Nobody has to LIKE anything (and, as I said much earlier in this thread, there really is a lot of pretentious, vapid crap in modern art). In this case it really is the thought that counts - meaning the thought that is invested in trying to understand (REALLY understand) what it's all about. It's a win-win situation.

So thank you for this short review of your changing attitude.
I enjoyed it.

In that respect, there's a million paintings of cute kittens and Elvis Presley you can find in yard sales for $5.00.

They cost five dollars?
Now THAT's an obscene price.

(Yes, I know: if they make someone happy when they look at them, if they really cheer them up... heck, why not? They are worth every penny.

Myself, I would still prefer Dali's self-portrait as Mona Lisa. )

Originally posted by cavtrooper7
I am a Science fiction /fantasy artist I have been insulted by popular art culture for a while,witness my ire:
news.bbc.co.uk...

I don't know what you mean by "popular art culture", but I can assure you, Duchamp does not fit any of the possible descriptors of such a category.

If you were "offended" by it, that was the initial reaction that Duchamp had intended - however, it was intended as a TRIGGER of further thought about the role of art and society, not as an offending gesture for its own sake. It was a statement - and a very valid one.

(Here is what I wrote about The Fountain in an earlier post.)

Oh, and I can tell you I did not hesitate to vote for his Fountain.
It IS the defining piece of the course of modern art in the 20th century.

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis


Look! It's more than just blotches of paint :-)

Well....those are quite good in my eye. They are not blotches of paint.

same blotchy artist - did you scroll down?

yes - there's a message in there somewhere...

:-)

reply to post by Vanitas

It's more like a series of parallel monologues

perfect

and thank you - I feel the same about posters like you :-)

on the other hand - sometimes, if you listen very carefully...you can also hear some kind of warm, fuzzy affection-like qualities in the sarcasm and derision

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Eric Clapton sells blotches of paint for 21 Million

Gerhard Richter?
He's one of my favourite late 20th century artists.
Thanks for bringing him up.

sometimes, if you listen very carefully...you can also here some kind of warm, fuzzy affection-like qualities in the sarcasm and derision

I actually know what you mean. :-)

Originally posted by simus

Originally posted by krossfyterso why do you feel they evoke a feeling of utter dismay????? can u articulate that further?

and yes like the previous poster pointed out for you ... it is subjective.

May be. But the subjects who appreciate abstract art themselves can't tell it from the paintings produced by animals.

we all are animals to an extent.


thats part of the point of abstraction.


its certainly sometimes primal.


a reflection of work done against learned ways of mark making.


you and some others seem to go about criticizing a style of mark making without understanding part of it's purpose. or being aware of its purpose.


and pretty cool how this thread keeps going and going.


hah

The problem in the World of Art is that a few Self Anointed People have risen to the ranks of THOSE WHO DETERMINE WHAT IS OR IS NOT ART. Now this has always Pissed Me Off!

As a poster has already said...a painting on canvas of a bunch of paint splotches is Labeled ART and sells for 12 Million Dollars while a artist who can paint an almost perfect depiction of reality goes hungry. Art is very subjective to say the least but when people are stupid enough to pay $12 Million for a picture of a Circle or Triangle or Thin Rectangle...I have to laugh! LOL!

The very worse are these publicly purchased Metal Scrap Constructs that are placed in the center of a Public Park at the Cities expense that any welder with a Junk Yard close could make. I can paint, draw, design, sculpt and I am also a Musician. I can see value in certain ABSTRACT ART or sculpture...but $12 Million for a Circle? A CHILD could paint that!

Then a bunch of kids on a field trip to the Metropolitan Art Museum visiting a display on tour look at the art and say...I came here to see this!?? People are something! Split Infinity

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
The problem in the World of Art is that a few Self Anointed People have risen to the ranks of THOSE WHO DETERMINE WHAT IS OR IS NOT ART. Now this has always Pissed Me Off!

As a poster has already said...a painting on canvas of a bunch of paint splotches is Labeled ART and sells for 12 Million Dollars while a artist who can paint an almost perfect depiction of reality goes hungry. Art is very subjective to say the least but when people are stupid enough to pay $12 Million for a picture of a Circle or Triangle or Thin Rectangle...I have to laugh! LOL!

The very worse are these publicly purchased Metal Scrap Constructs that are placed in the center of a Public Park at the Cities expense that any welder with a Junk Yard close could make. I can paint, draw, design, sculpt and I am also a Musician. I can see value in certain ABSTRACT ART or sculpture...but $12 Million for a Circle? A CHILD could paint that!

Then a bunch of kids on a field trip to the Metropolitan Art Museum visiting a display on tour look at the art and say...I came here to see this!?? People are something! Split Infinity

I once 'tagged' an exhibition of 12 paintings at 1 million dollars each (for the fun of it)...interestingly, I was surrounded by suits with dollar signs in thier eyes, trying to bargain me down...

I understand Your frustration...but I mean the reality is...the canvas, stretcher, ground, paint, time, inspiration - hey, just plain old 'good will' incorporated into a unit which comes off the production line has to be worth something...we might not like volkswagons, but we appreciate the quirkiness of them and are willing to pay the price...

Truth is, exhorbitant prices for artwork happens wayyy after the artist has dispensed with thier 'children'...it's the failed artists, the 'critics' that are playing the tune...artists have worked this out and for a while have started the bar higher...consequently the end price just keeps getting higher...

By the way, I know many industrial welders that became artists in thier own right, artists in thier own right...

A99

reply to post by SplitInfinity

Your post about a "$12 Million for a Circle" reminded me of the legendary power of the circle...

"Pope Benedict sent one of his courtiers into Tuscany to see what sort of a man he was and what his works were like, for the Pope was planning to have some paintings made in S Peter's. This courtier, on his way to see Giotto and to find out what other masters of painting and mosaic there were in Florence, spoke with many masters in Sienna, and then, having received some drawings from them, he came to Florence. And one morning going into the workshop of Giotto, who was at his labours, he showed him the mind of the Pope, and at last asked him to give him a little drawing to send to his Holiness. Giotto, who was a man of courteous manners, immediately took a sheet of paper, and with a pen dipped in red, fixing his arm firmly against his side to make a compass of it, with a turn of his hand he made a circle so perfect that it was a marvel to see it Having done it, he turned smiling to the courtier and said, "Here is the drawing." But he, thinking he was being laughed at, asked, "Am I to have no other drawing than this?" "This is enough and too much," replied Giotto, "send it with the others and see if it will be understood." The messenger, seeing that he could get nothing else, departed ill pleased, not doubting that he had been made a fool of. However, sending the other drawings to the Pope with the names of those who had made them, he sent also Giotto's, relating how he had made the circle without moving his arm and without compasses, which when the Pope and many of his courtiers understood, they saw that Giotto must surpass greatly all the other painters of his time."

from: rodcorp.typepad.com...

So it seems highly valuable circles are not only a modern day phenomenon.... at least in legend, that is.

reply to post by NIcon

Your post reminded me of the BILLIONS UPON BILLIONS of DOLLARS in rare ART that the VATICAN has deep in it's Treasure Vaults. I have respect for anyone's religious beliefs but when people go to Church and they pass around the Donation Bucket or Basket and a good portion of that Money is sent to the Vatican...I ask myself...WHAT? IS JESUS SHORT A FEW BUCKS?

Just think of all the GOOD that money and ART and GOLD could do if it was used to help the POOR and the SICK?
This is one of the MAIN REASONS that I do not believe in any RELIGION! I am an AGNOSTIC. I have seen things that have made me OPEN MY EYES and I KNOW that there is more to the MULTIVERSE than people can fathom.

Thing is...I believe what is...is much more COMPLEX and INTERCONNECTIVE than any Human Mind has the capacity to understand.

This is what the MATH DICTATES and in all of History...there has never been an occasion that something existed that the MATH did not already dictate to be a reality or possible. The MATH dictates that in an INFINITE SYSTEM...and that is what our Multiverse is...an INFINITE SYSTEM...HAS A 100% PROBABILITY THAT EVERY POSSIBILITY MUST EXIST AS WELL AS EVERY VERSION OF EXISTENCE OR NON-EXISTENCE.

Thus...there is a 100% PROBABILITY that the MULTIVERSE contains a UNIVERSE in which there EXISTS A GOD.....there is also a 100% PROBABILITY than in this INFINITE SYSTEM...there is a UNIVERSE where GOD DOES NOT EXIST.

THAT....is the MATH! It also dictates that in an Infinite System there is a 100% PROBABILITY that there are many versions and constructs of both GODS and NON-GOD EXISTING UNIVERSAL REALITIES. Again...this is the MATH TALKING! So if it Pisses you off....BLAME YOUR 12TH GRADE PHYSICS TEACHER! LOL!
Split Infinity

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
I have respect for anyone's religious beliefs but when people go to Church and they pass around the Donation Bucket or Basket and a good portion of that Money is sent to the Vatican...I ask myself...WHAT? IS JESUS SHORT A FEW BUCKS?

I hope not to turn this into a religion or Vatican related discussion, but are you sure about that "good portion of that Money is sent to the Vatican"? From what I know (through other people) the money is to be spent in that specific congregation.