The Modern Art Idiocy

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posted on Oct, 13 2011 @ 06:49 PM
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Greek and Roman sculpture still amazes people today. I wonder if in 2000 years from now people will be amazed at a block of red paint, or a urinal, or a pickled cow...?
edit on 13-10-2011 by FOXMULDER147 because: (no reason given)




posted on Oct, 13 2011 @ 07:17 PM
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reply to post by FOXMULDER147
 


I wonder if 2000 years from now, we'll amazed to rediscover the useful survival art and technique of flint knapping.



On topic... conceptual art has varied throughout history and is no different today. For instance Chavin Art, stylized and symbolic, has been around since the Lithic Period (10,000 - 3,000BC).

Just because it's not 'Classic Greek' doesn't mean it's not art.



posted on Oct, 13 2011 @ 07:26 PM
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reply to post by FOXMULDER147
 


The red velvet curtain floating up from black ; ) yeah i think people could see it as beautiful hundreds of years from now. The other stuff you listed? Prob not it's pop art stuff.



posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 10:17 AM
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I'm always surprised when people don't see the connection - art comes from an idea

ideas are art



posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 01:06 PM
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An interesting thing would be to hear from the opponents of post modern art their philosophical thoughts on the aesthetic appreciation of music.

How does their insistence of recognizable realistic forms in the visual arts translate into the abstract world of music?

How does their insistence on complex techniques square with a three-cord garage band?

How does their revulsion of ordinary objects as a medium match up with the washboard or jug or spoons in early folk music?



posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 02:09 PM
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First, art is subjective. Just because you think it's bogus or nothing doesn't make it so.
Second, today at work I heard a hilarious story about modern art:
In a modern art museum a bunch of very distinguished quests were on a tour. They were analysing a coil of electric cable left on the floor. How the black parts represented dark and night and the white labels represented day. The electrician came by and then picked up the coil he accidentaly left behind... So yeah



posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 02:17 PM
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Originally posted by Spiramirabilis
I'm always surprised when people don't see the connection - art comes from an idea

ideas are art


Do you know, that is exactly it, and most people just don't get it. I can draw brilliantly, technically, no problem whatsoever. You tell me what to draw, paint, or even sew, embroider...etc, and I can do it, but can I come up with the idea? No, not at all. I cannot, in that way, express myself originally.

That is why art moves me so.



posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 02:22 PM
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reply to post by Skyfloating
 


I don't have a whole lot to offer to the subject besides "that's ridiculous!"

But you might be interested in this movie.

It showcases how profit driven some "artists" are. It might be a hoax, but it's an interesting film nonetheless.



posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 02:29 PM
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As an artist, I don't mind criticism of my work from anyone. Because what ever I make, be it 2D, sculpture, music, film; I make for myself, not an audience. It's entirely process not product oriented. When a piece is finished; my emotional involvement has ended and has already been taken over by the next project.

I know that's a hard concept for a consumerist society to grasp but my art is a totally selfish endeavor, a passion, my identity, my love, the reason I greet each day with a feeling of excitement and promise.

I am obsessed by making art. Just as some are obsessed by exercising power over other people; I am compelled to create something that didn't exist until my mind and hands put forth the effort to "geeter done"

And I would also like to thank my patrons that have allowed me to live a lifestyle free from the normal constraints most people have to endure. I have been truly blessed.
edit on 14-10-2011 by whaaa because: y5y



posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 02:56 PM
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reply to post by GringoViejo

Hi Gringo -

Sometimes I feel that 'good Art' is something that one instinctively 'knows' but cannot always put into words - sort of like the dog who sees a cat - he can't tell you what it is, but he'd know it when he saw it...

But separating out 'good art' from 'bad art' from 'not-art' is always going to be a little subjective...despite the efforts of the Greeks e.g. Aristotle to put mathematical-geometrical etc. parameters around it to see if one can define exactly 'why' something is 'art' while 'something else is just 'noise' or 'junk paper' or 'a pile of rubble' etc.

Fux in his Gradus Ad Parnassum (published in Vienna in Latin in 1725) quoted the Roman orator Cicero when he said in his chapter 'On Taste' ( 'De Gusto') = quote: 'de gustibus non disputandum est' - which roughly means something like: 'when it comes to matters of Taste, there can be no cogent or scientific Arguments...' and went on to describe a man who lived in a tree house for 20 years rapturously listening to what he called 'Divine music of Nature' i.e. listening to the the squauking of birds all day and night - whereas another person (with a 'different idea of 'taste') would be driven stark raving mad by the din of birds constantly clucking away..

In other words, to some, the 'sounds of birds' constantly 'singing' is called 'Music', to others it is a bird-language, to others it seems just like some soothing background noise (remember one of the Latin words for 'hell' is...'Avernus' lit. 'no birds', and to others, bird-chirping is nothing but random sounds that can give a person a big migraine if exposed to it too long etc.

Most of the classical definitions for 'art' (without going into what the differences are between 'art' and 'good art' and 'great art' and 'a masterpiece' etc.) in the past (e.g. Leonardo in his unfinished 'Treatise on Painting') stated the axiom: 'All True Art MUST follow the Dictates of Nature in its basic Design structure' in other words the closer something can use 'divine proportions' that 'exactly mirror or copy the mathematical proportions found in Nature' the more it may be called Art - and the further away from 'the proportions of Nature' any so-called 'work of art' is, the less it may be called Art -

whether it be based on the 'Divine' proportions of Nature found in e.g.

The Fibonacci Sequence = 0, 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, 89, 144, 233, 377, 610, 987, 1597, 2584, 4181, 6765...

or the so-called 'Golden Ratio' (1.61803398874989...)

or if it makes use of the so-called Pi Ratio =


3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375105820974944592*64062862089986280348253421170679...)

and other 'natural' proportions e.g. in music (1:1 = unison ; 1:2 octave ; 3:2 = 'perfect' Fifth; 4:34 = 'perfect' 4th) etc. which veer further and further off from the perfection of UNITY (1:1) - which series according to 'Pythagoras' produced a natural series of 'overtones' in a sort of Musica Mundana, echoed in Alberti's Treatise e.g. 'we shall our Rules for the Finishing our Proportions, from Composers, who are the greatest Masters of these Numbering Systems, and from those Things wherein Nature shows herself most excellent & Compleat." Leon Battista Alberti (1407-1472) - and all sorts of 'rules' to approaching perfect intervals in music were invented ('you may not approach a perfect consonance by Direct Motion...') and approaching 'dissonances' also had their own rules according to Fux and others - 'every Dissonance in Music must be first PREPARED, before being EXECUTED then strictly RESOLVED according to the Rules layed out...' - such 'rules which govern taste' influenced the music e.g. of persons such as Handel and Vivaldi, and Bach and W.A. Mozart and Josef Haydn and Christoph Ritter von Gluck and Franz Schubert and Ludwig Beethoven etal.

Some would argue that e.g. rap 'music' does not follow the strict rules of composition laid out by persons such as Johann Josef Fux of Vienna (who used the strictish polyphony of Palestrina as his role-model) and is therefore not 'art' ---but I suppose there are those who might disagree...!!



posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 03:08 PM
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James Joyce used to ponder this one:

If a man hacking away at a block of wood to make firewood for the winter, not paying attention to what he's doing, whistling, not thinking, by pure chance carves an elephant out of the block. Is that art?



posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 03:13 PM
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Originally posted by FOXMULDER147
James Joyce used to ponder this one:

If a man hacking away at a block of wood to make firewood for the winter, not paying attention to what he's doing, whistling, not thinking, by pure chance carves an elephant out of the block. Is that art?


I don't know...but if another man took a photo of the wood elephant....is that art?

Perhaps it boils down to motivation and intent.

Aesthetics is a slippery slope but one that makes us uniquely human and sets us apart from the beasts.



posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 03:18 PM
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Originally posted by Sigismundus
reply to post by GringoViejo
and other 'natural' proportions e.g. in music (1:1 = unison ; 1:2 octave ; 3:2 = 'perfect' Fifth; 4:34 = 'perfect' 4th) etc. which veer further and further off from the perfection of UNITY (1:1) - which series according to 'Pythagoras' produced a natural series of 'overtones' in a sort of Musica Mundana, echoed in Alberti's Treatise e.g. 'we shall our Rules for the Finishing our Proportions, from Composers, who are the greatest Masters of these Numbering Systems, and from those Things wherein Nature shows herself most excellent & Compleat." Leon Battista Alberti (1407-1472) - and all sorts of 'rules' to approaching perfect intervals in music were invented ('you may not approach a perfect consonance by Direct Motion...') and approaching 'dissonances' also had their own rules according to Fux and others - 'every Dissonance in Music must be first PREPARED, before being EXECUTED then strictly RESOLVED according to the Rules layed out...' - such 'rules which govern taste' influenced the music e.g. of persons such as Handel and Vivaldi, and Bach and W.A. Mozart and Josef Haydn and Christoph Ritter von Gluck and Franz Schubert and Ludwig Beethoven etal.

Some would argue that e.g. rap 'music' does not follow the strict rules of composition laid out by persons such as Johann Josef Fux of Vienna (who used the strictish polyphony of Palestrina as his role-model) and is therefore not 'art' ---but I suppose there are those who might disagree...!!

Thanks for the reply, very interesting. All art is subjective, I don't think anyone would really argue that. You could even say that the artist that the film I posted features, who is purely motivated by profit though hid cleverly, produces art whether he truly means to or not. Whether he cares about art at all or not.

Also, I love this: - 'every Dissonance in Music must be first PREPARED, before being EXECUTED then strictly RESOLVED according to the Rules layed out...' After I was done (in a school environment) learning music theory, I became very interested in incorporating dissonance in my music. It works much better when analyzed first, whereas other music may be easier to foster from a more organic approach.

A person who has always fascinated by is John Cage (you probably know who he is, the link is for those who might not), I can't stand his music, but the man is a genius.

Personally, sheet music is art to me. Especially today when you can compose a whole piece on the computer. I enjoy actually arranging music with paper and pencil, i don't know why, it's just fun. I think that the greatest artistic creation in history is the universal language of music we have today.



posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 03:27 PM
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I actually had a huge argument of the definition of art with one of my photography teachers. Her argument was that art is defined by the pre thought intent of the artist. I argued that art is in the eye of the beholder and part of that is how it is presented. My point was that you can take mona lisa and show it to someone as a .jpg and it's just a nice picture to them. However you can pick few holiday snapshots, maybe few failed shots from someones archive. Frame them. Light them well and present them well. Many people would see that as art piece.
I still think I won that argument



posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 04:41 PM
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reply to post by GringoViejo
 


Cage was the sole reason I bumped this thread. He might of had high points but the video I showed on the previous page was not one, despite what most will try and tell you.



posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 04:52 PM
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reply to post by pazcat
 




Yes! I loved studying him. But that's about all



posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 04:57 PM
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Originally posted by pazcat
reply to post by GringoViejo
 


Cage was the sole reason I bumped this thread. He might of had high points but the video I showed on the previous page was not one, despite what most will try and tell you.


I think your mistake was to assume that what Cage was trying to do in that clip was music, when in fact it was more conceptual performance art, movement and dance with a piano as a prop.

I probably wouldn't have paid to have seen Cage. May he RIP.



posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 05:24 PM
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Originally posted by whaaa
Don't blame the artist. A true artist makes what he wants and stays true to his sense of aesthetics.

Blame the agents, and the scum that hype and market Art.

As I write this, I am working in my co-op gallery hoping to sell wonderful, beautiful and affordable works of art and craft. People have free will and have diverse opinions as to what is beautiful, valuable and desirable.

I don't pretend to know what drives the high end art market but I can tell you that it's not the artist. And no one is twisting the arms of the collectors to buy anything; they make their own decisions as to whats valuable or not.

What do you have against the free market system? If anything.

[edit on 14-2-2010 by whaaa]


I think you pretty well wrapped the answer up here, whaaa. Having removed myself from the art 'industry', many years ago, due to this very real abomination of individual creativity.

I remember a gallery opening of my own paintings, which were, cynically, all priced at a million dollars.
I had created the first stepping stone to the intrigue that the 'leeches' of the art world (i.e. those that profit from others' work) have a fascination for.

I had practically given all the paintings away before they went up, to peers and friends.
An industry type took me aside at one point, dressed in the mandatory garb of the 'fine art' officianado (whatever that means!)...he talked the talk, but when it came to the price...there seemed to be a problem!

All of a sudden my WORK was being bargained away by some leech in a penguin suit...i turned around to the leech and told him, if he had a problem, he should lift his lazy, leeching fingers...and produce works of his own and sell it at whatever price he thought was appropriate.

And, so begins the climb up the price ladder! Leech buys my work, leech puts my work on the 'market' (at a profit!), leech becomes known vicariously through my work (and others')...

...without ever having done anything himself/herself!

The poor tortured artist, compelled to create, is caught up in this whirlwind, where thier work becomes a commodity, against thier will...but they are compelled to create!

I 'personally' rest my case!

Akushla



posted on Oct, 31 2011 @ 07:36 PM
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Once, he told me if he’d grown up differently, he might have become a mathematician. He spoke reverently about colleges and loved walking around the Stanford campus. In the last year of his life, he studied a book of paintings by Mark Rothko, an artist he hadn’t known about before, thinking of what could inspire people on the walls of a future Apple campus.
www.nytimes.com...

from a lovely eulogy - it felt relevant



posted on Oct, 31 2011 @ 08:44 PM
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Originally posted by akushla99
I remember a gallery opening of my own paintings, which were, cynically, all priced at a million dollars.


I think I may just try that myself at my next showing. Should create a bit of buzz...

Great idea.





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