Rebuilt DNA Could Lead to Cloned Neanderthals

Rebuilt DNA Could Lead to Cloned Neanderthals

www.foxnews.com

As scientists come closer to completing a draft sequence of the Neanderthal genome, creating a living person from an ancient DNA sequence is becoming a real possibility, according to Archaeology Magazine.

In 2005, 454 Life Sciences began a project with the Max Planck Institute to sequence the genetic code of a 30,000 year old Neanderthal woman. Now nearly complete, the sequence will let scientists look at the genetic blueprint of humankind's nearest relative, understand its biology and maybe even create a living person

(visit the link for the full news article)

I wonder what the implications of doing this would be...

It isn't technically 'human cloning' but you can not deny that there is a GIGANTIC moral gray area that we art tap-dancing right into with this one.

What do we do next? Clone saints? I personally vote that we clone dinosaurs (it went SOOOOO well in that movie!)

The only real immediate positive that I can see coming from cloning Neanderthals is this:

Geico commercials will be AWESOME!!!!!

www.foxnews.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Making a neanderthal woman could be dangerous. There are a lot of sickos out there that might try to "get at it".
Than a new breed begins..
ack!!

I have nothing against cloning humans. It's the same thing as twins, just made differently. If we clone humans we can prove if humans have "souls" or not.

Wow, interesting...

A question...say we end up doing something dumb and killing ourselves...then lets say...squirrels become the new intelligent species on earth

down the line, they learn how to clone...would you want the squirrels to start cloning and bringing back humans? hmm...

dilemma dilemma

anyhow, if they are going to bring back our more gentle, slghtly dumber (arguable) cousins, they need to do a whole bunch of em and give em a island...a sort of "sorry bout that whole extinction thing" we pulled on them sometime back. doesn't have to be a massive amount...just perhaps like 10k male and females.

We could do that, but if the neanderthals are anything like gerbils (my usual standby animal of comparison) then 10k of them would become like 535413541543505343504 of them in NO time!

And you can't feed neanderthals to a snake...

reply to post by YourPopRock


Finally, my perfect date

Peace

The problem will be that we will actually be manufacturing our own protected class...

Next thing you know, you will be watching things like THIS on the news:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/604530237c2b.jpg[/atsimg]

Actually according to evidence, there might be people out there already who are a strain of Neanderthal.

I think my ENTIRE high school football team may have been a strain of neanderthal!

Honest question though... We clone them... where do they get to live?

They went extinct for a reason. Spitting on the face of evolution has some serious and dire consequences. Best to leave them to history books. At the very least clone one or two to study them, but good Lord, don't bring enough back for a sustainable population.

Originally posted by Zatiktoktal
They went extinct for a reason. Spitting on the face of evolution has some serious and dire consequences. Best to leave them to history books. At the very least clone one or two to study them, but good Lord, don't bring enough back for a sustainable population.

What would the dire consequences be?

Only thing I can think of is a dinosaur movie.

Originally posted by YourPopRock

What would the dire consequences be?

Only thing I can think of is a dinosaur movie.

You're reversing the outcome of the natural order of the world. We won, they lost. You are turning back that decision. It's like creating an evolutionary welfare state. We now have to compete with Neanderthals again, and while it might seem trivial now, I'm sure we meager little homo sapiens seemed pretty trivial and harmless if we looked at our early primitive selves through our current state. Given enough time, they could become a major issue, since they are arguably the most human of any other animal out there and would likely come into interference with humans.

Originally posted by YourPopRock
I think my ENTIRE high school football team may have been a strain of neanderthal!

Honest question though... We clone them... where do they get to live?

Well the reason they went extinct is because they wasnt a social animal so dont think they would last to long anyways if we brought em back.

Originally posted by Sparkey76
Actually according to evidence, there might be people out there already who are a strain of Neanderthal.

I believe you might just be right. Look at these pictures.

1.bp.blogspot.com...

chattahbox.com...

Originally posted by ViperFoxBat

Originally posted by Sparkey76
Actually according to evidence, there might be people out there already who are a strain of Neanderthal.

I believe you might just be right. Look at these pictures.

1.bp.blogspot.com...

chattahbox.com...

That second one scared the poop out of me!!!

Looks like that Gollum character in Lord of the Rings!!!

I've always thought it would be awesome to bring back Neanderthal, just so that we could have another intelligent species (or at least - our level/manifestation of intelligence) on Earth to interact with. However, even if we cloned the Neanderthal - we wouldn't really be bringing them back. What makes us "human" is not our DNA, but our history, behavior, culture, language, and reasoning skills. While some degree of behavior is tied to DNA, the plasticity of our brains is incredible in reshaping and reconfiguring behavior patterns. That's part of why "human nature" has been so elusive to rigid definition.

Neanderthals had comparable, if not greater, mental prowess. They had larger brains, but reduced vocalization range which limited communication.

In either regard, what we consider as "Human" is largely is the accumulation and refinement of 200ky of enculterization. Whether this happened suddenly 30kya with CroMagnon or evolved slowly, inherited from even more extant australopithecine ancestors, is still not definitive. What is clear, however, is that the first animal mankind domesticated, was ourselves. We had to discover language, discover culture, discover morality, discover logic, and discover civilization.

Neanderthals, behaviorally, were on this similar path as shown by musical instruments, rudimentary technology, burials traditions, tool use, etc. This was all lost or absorbed by our ancestors when Neanderthal disappeared from Europe. And once it's gone, it's gone. We cannot recreate the chain of events necessary to reproduce Neanderthal culture as it was when they went extinct. Any Neanderthal clone we create now will be "Human" in regards to it's behavior and intelligence level... and they will learn to be human from the researchers they interact with.

Think those Geiko commercials are just parody? I think they hit closer to reality than many people would initially think.



(Minus the vocalization range, of course, and note that Cavemen were Cromagnon - though the Geiko commercial gave their caveman more neanderthal-inspired features)

Originally posted by Lasheic
Neanderthals, behaviorally, were on this similar path as shown by musical instruments, rudimentary technology, burials traditions, tool use, etc. This was all lost or absorbed by our ancestors when Neanderthal disappeared from Europe. And once it's gone, it's gone. We cannot recreate the chain of events necessary to reproduce Neanderthal culture as it was when they went extinct. Any Neanderthal clone we create now will be "Human" in regards to it's behavior and intelligence level... and they will learn to be human from the researchers they interact with.

I agree Neanderthal would pick up human traits. Imo it would be kind of sad to bring them into our world alone without others of their kind. I only see this leading to unhappiness and misery for the clones. If Neanderthal lab animals is what is desired I think it's best we leave them alone.

Neanderthals had comparable, if not greater, mental prowess. They had larger brains, but reduced vocalization range which limited communication.

This is something to consider what if their ability to learn far exceeds ours? Next thing you know they'll want to run for president.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/7a20c8c6f6f9.jpg[/atsimg]

reply to post by Morningglory

I agree Neanderthal would pick up human traits. Imo it would be kind of sad to bring them into our world alone without others of their kind. I only see this leading to unhappiness and misery for the clones. If Neanderthal lab animals is what is desired I think it's best we leave them alone.

Why wouldn't they be a part of our kind? If they are going to be behaviorally and culturally human anyhow, at what critical number of allele variation would they then not be human? There's evidence to suggest some of us may already carry Neanderthal DNA, that our populations didn't only compete them into extinction.. but absorbed them. Breeding may well still be viable. We and Neanderthal are not completely separate species, and findings from the genome suggest we split from a common ancestor much more recently than previously suspected.

The case isn't iron clad, but there is growing segment of academics who already consider Neanderthal to be a sub-species of Homo Sapiens... just as we are. They are classified as Homo sapiens neanderthalensis, while we are classified Homo sapiens sapiens. We are both subspecies to a greater human species, though we are more directly descended from Homo Sapien ancestors.

I only see this leading to unhappiness and misery for the clones.

Depends. Do you treat them as humans, or do you treat them as sub-human? Do you raise them in a family, or in a sterile laboratory enclosure? I can't say whether or not the individuals would be happy or miserable. That depends on factors integral to the human condition, not species boundaries.

If Neanderthal lab animals is what is desired I think it's best we leave them alone.

I agree with you here. However, if they were researched using the same ethical guidelines involved in currently existing human research projects, what would be the harm? Dehumanizing a subset human species with a brain shaped by human culture, identity, and social behaviors would be as offensive an act of dehumanization as it is when subjected to mentally handicapped or indigenous/minority peoples.

This is something to consider what if their ability to learn far exceeds ours? Next thing you know they'll want to run for president.

If they're smart, they'll avoid the job. It doesn't matter though, since even if we cloned a neanderthal child right now, today - by the time it's grown, we will already be well on our way to human performance augmentation via gene therapy and cyberization/BCI interfaces. It won't be intelligent machines enhancing their performance and capacity which kicks off the "singularity", should such an event happen. It will be self-improving humans. Long before we have to face an "Us or Them" scenario, I think we're going to merge into a single "Us". Perhaps Neanderthal will be included... or perhaps not.

Well i want them to make a genetically engineered one for me... a little one... i will call him Cha-Ka...

Cha-Ka can help me to hunt sleestacks!