Have YOU Been PROGRAMMED?

reply to post by Bilw85

You offer me a life of running the rat race to get ahead in life. A life of worshipping money and science. A life of no hope other than storing junk to pass down to my offspring. A life where nothing is real. A life where I store grudges and let others get under my skin. A life where I have to brainwash myself into thinking that I have the ability to know the absolute truth. A life of picking and choosing vices based of personal pleasure. A life of fake friends who are really looking out for their own survival. A life of absolute fear of being extinguished at any moment. A life of fear of never seeing any of my loved ones again. A life where the value of a human being is placed on their production capacity. A life where we are a tiny blip on a timeline of 4.6 billion. A life where anything that offends my observable scientific view must be written off as irrational and dangerous.

That is QUITE a strong statement you have got here. But I am not a saviour. I myself am not offering you anything. I am encouraging you to liberate your mind. This is not a Religion in itself, I think many people have been misinterpreting my thread. This is not the Cult Of Scientific Reasoning or whatever title you can come up with! I addressed paranormal anomalies earlier, look into biophotons. Either way, it's electromagnetic energy and that is not out of our realm of possibility, it's part of our world ("Ghosts"). It is humanity that claimed "Ghosts" were dead entities and associated them with Religion. I don't believe this to be true. But that is a topic for another thread.

Did you know your body is composed of particles from across the universe? I don't believe the scientific community project such a bitter ending to life as you oppose. Compression and Decompression is the mechanism of the universe if you want to get Cosmological. Energy is never destroyed. Your body and everything around you is made of energy. It is simply recycled in organic matter such as a Human Body. So to claim that we just disappear and that is the scientific view is completely wrong. I believe we all, together, along with all matter in the universe create the system itself. And when we die, we pass our energy on to be recycled and keep the system functioning. In the future, things created with our recycled energy or particles will express traits found in who you are today on a micro level. So no, I don't believe we are dead and gone when we pass away, I feel that humanity has put a very primitive view on death to console and soothe the Human Nature encoded in our DNA creating the need for a Religious answer.

Reply to post by Paradox.

No, we program ourselves with our perceptions of our experiences.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by Paradox.


[..] [A] culture based on the principles of science must be destroyed when it begins to grow illogical, that is, to retreat before its own consequences. Our art reveals this universal distress: in vain does one depend imitatively on all the great productive periods and natures; in vain does one accumulate the entire "world-literature" around modern man for his comfort; in vain does one place oneself in the midst of the art styles and artists of all ages, so that one may give names to them as Adam did to the beasts: one still remains externally hungry, the "critic" without joy and energy, the Alexandrian man, who is at bottom a librarian and corrector of proofs, and wretchedly goes blind from the dust of books and from printers' errors. (The Birth of Tragedy, §18)
Science is a contextless approach to life, which means it doesn't offer any existential truth or guidance, only clinical conclusions. Science can for instance research the origin of the universe, but makes no assertions on why it came about or what meaning it has to us. Only an existential philosophy can bring meaning to our lives and it is here that Nietzsche discovers the problems with turning science into the new religion. It doesn't provide us with the truths we seek, because it has no contextual relation to our existence. It gives us numbers, but numbers alone bring neither enlightenment nor happiness

Instead, Nietzsche begins to examine the motives behind redirecting beliefs from religion to science, and finds that it has become a shallow substitute for the missing ideals, trying to hide the underlying emptiness inherent to human existence:


Where science is not the most recently appearing form of the ascetic ideal—and then it's a matter of cases too rare, noble, and exceptional to counter the general judgment—science today is a hiding place for all kinds of unhappiness, disbelief, gnawing worms, despectio sui [self-contempt], bad conscience. It is the anxiety of the absence of ideals, suffering from the lack of a great love, the dissatisfaction with a condition of involuntary modest content. Oh, what nowadays does science not conceal! How much, at least, is it designed to conceal! The efficiency of our best scholars, their mindless diligence, their heads smoking day and night, the very mastery of their handiwork—how often has all this derived its meaning from the fact that they don't permit some things to become visible to them any more! Science as a means of putting themselves to sleep. (On the Genealogy of Morals, §23)
Because of its very nature and the state it currently is in, Nietzsche predicts a mystification of scientific "truth," which will eventually lead to the same nihilistic state as the Christian religion led to before it: the realization that there doesn't exist any objective truth inherent to life. Truth is a human subjective creation that is applied to life in order to give it meaning, but outside of it lies the void of emptiness. What will become of the godless modern individual, fleeing from his inevitable destiny? Is there any hope left?

It is possible, through exponentially advanced sciences to live forever. To rearrange the genetic code and in other words deter the activation of "aging" process cells undergo in the human body. But there are side effects to be dealt with. Maybe I should make my next thread centred around this.

I thought this thread would be about mind control victims. IMO, that would have been way more interesting.

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows


I was speaking with correspondence to Pre-Programming, Innate programming if you will. You are correct in saying our experiences are programming who we are. But Religion gives us a "Model" for programming that only accepts certain experiences as a basis due to Dogma and Religious belief. So those who have a veil cast over them may only hold a certain perspective. Even personal experience model a Human Cell, to be more specific the receptacles on the outer layer which are responsible for behavioral characteristics modeled over time.

reply to post by Bilw85

Lets say you're right and there is nothing after death...then I won't remember or regret or care about anything that happened during my life. I might as well have not lived at all. BUT....if I am right....My life of trying to live within my Savior's guidelines will have paid off.

So basically you claim it's better to risk it, and take part in something you HONESTLY have no idea about...and if you are right it would've all been worth it? I discussed something similar to this recently:

Originally posted by CHA0S

It's fascinating that man won't take the free gift of eternal life

I'll give my response to that...and that is: I already believe my soul is eternal and there is no such place as Heaven or Hell because I highly doubt the creator would send his creations to eternal torment (plus a billion other reasons)...so...the question is...what makes your belief more correct then mine...your book of words? I don't think so...therefore, I don't need to accept the gift of eternal life...because I already have it...and for the Atheists (I'm agnostic)...they just probably don't even believe in eternal life, so therefore, there is nothing to take...they can't take something they don't even know is really there...I guess your question will now be..."Well, why not just try...you've got nothing to lose, and only eternal life to gain"...well, I'd answer, firstly, that wouldn't be a true Christian...they're only doing it for eternal life...secondly, to an Atheist, that'd be like saying "Why don't you try sitting there looking at the cup of water until you can move it with your mind, you've got nothing to lose, and only telekinetic powers to gain"...they wouldn't see the point, and would only see it as a waste of time where they accomplish nothing in the end, and instead could be doing more productive things...

If there is nothing after death, then every smile, or tear, or moment will have no meaning. If we don't exist after death, then did life ever exist? I just can't see how or why we would even develop a consciousness that allows to us ponder an inevitable outcome.

I commented in a thread recently where a guy argued that nothing matters because its all going to end You are essentially saying if life isn't eternal it has no meaning?!? I'll just quote what I said on that thread:

Originally posted by CHA0S
reply to post by shadow12

 

some of us worry about small things that seem important but when you realy think about it they dont mean much because they dont last forever nothing does.

Maybe that's what makes life so precious? The fact that life, and everything in this universe, will not stay the same or last forever? Life is truly a rare and precious and the fact that nothing lasts forever makes everything so much more important. Don't take things for granted my friend...for you don't know what you've got till it's gone.

It's true...nothing really matters in the end...but it's the meaning we give these things which is important...that's essentially the essence of life...and life is a beautiful and rare thing...the gift of experience and existence should never be taken for granted...even if it doesn't really matter...because we can give it meaning and make it matter...

Another question I wanted to pose: How much meaning would things have if they were all eternal and lasting forever? Don't you think such a reality would be meaning and pointless? Isn't THAT the reality where things really mean nothing in the end?

Our souls are eternal...but that doesn't necessarily mean they last forever...it's like watching your favorite show then wishing you could erase your memory so you could watch it again and be just as entertained as you were the first time...we choose to destroy ourselves in the end because life gets boring after we reach a peak in our advancement...it's like a child entering the world for the first time...everything is new to them...so wondrous and full of mystery everything needs to be explored and discovered...

I'm thinking even beyond physical exploration...I'm thinking to the point where one has mastered an understanding of self and reality to a degree where there is literally nothing left to understand...mental exploration. A perfect, pure and unadulterated cognitive functioning, a grasping and understanding of all that is...literally Godlike status...anyone can become a God...but when they do they realize the only thing left to do is destroy themselves and start all over again...life too would lose meaning if it were to last forever...and IMO we do have eternal souls...therefore in the end we will destroy ourselves...

Whether we have eternal souls or not...we will NOT last forever...soak that in...

A life where I have to brainwash myself into thinking that I have the ability to know the absolute truth.
----
A life where we are a tiny blip on a timeline of 4.6 billion.

It seems to me you ar brainwashing yourself by completely believing there is this saviour called Jesus who will grant you eternal life in pure bliss if you follow his "guidlines" whilst in this physical world. And you ARE a TINY blip on a time-scale which is INFINITE...why is that so bad...is your ego that tender? You need to deal with the fact that you are no where near as important as you'd like to think...what happens when it is 4.6 billion years in the future?!? Do you think people will be going "Oh my God...we are just a blip on a 4.6 billion year timeline...life is so meaningless"...

The confidence to die with peace and anticipation of going home.

Although I have reason to believe humans posses eternal souls, even if I didn't believe this, I would die with complete peace of mind...I understand that everything must come to an end, and I will also come to an end...I am not scared or fearful of dying and being no more...I can totally accept that...it's all about the ego...I don't need to believe that I am going to a better place to live for eternity to die peacefully...that's absolute lunacy and a display of our primal desire to escape death so we can "keep existing"...

reply to post by AmethystSD


You'll have to rely on Jesse Ventura for now.

reply to post by Paradox.

Nah, right now I'm reading The Illuminati Formula which so far seems to be a detailed recipe for creating mind control victims. It's super creepy. Especially since I keep halfway wondering if I could be one and not even know it. I guess anyone could be.

Special emphasis is placed a premature birth as a way of inducing trauma. Trauma being the method of creating disassociation, which is needed to fragment a mind.

reply to post by concernedcitizan


Excellent quotes, this is what I like arguing, well presented thesis and body argument. Excellent excerpts from the literature. Let me start with pointing out a flaw in your understanding. I have repeatedly exemplified the fact in which Human Beings, in their nature, long for a MEANING in life. The meaning of life is such a broad question answered by every man who walks this Earth, differently. Look at the system around you. It is constantly developing, do you think possible the conclusion that will never be conclusive in which systematic meaning is constantly evolving itself! We are not even arguing Religion anymore we are arguing Scientific Integrity! What can it bring us! Well, it is impossible to say for sure. Unless applying theory of quantum mechanics where the future of a system may be derived from it's past.

But what I can say, surely, is Religion is a primitive form of human exasperation and need for a solution to death. Fear compels Humanity. Fear is the Leader, as I had stated in the OP. Through science we may find the answers to the questions we have answered previously with Dogma, but I guess you could say Science could also create an inverse Dogma as well, the belief in something only if it is proven. But this can all be Disregarded! We must look past what has been programmed into the Human mind (and DNA) In order to see a successful future. Programmatic equilibrium, as I had mentioned. Look at life itself, how it will flourish then fall to pieces and this will repeat into infinite proportions. It is only Human to ponder a deeper meaning to life - when survival is based on reproduction and maintenance of survival, and we can find this in every system micro and macro. A deeper meaning begins to sound more like a Hollywood based interpretation than natures true representation. I think we are looking in the wrong places for a "meaning" in life, and I think we have the term "meaning" defined wrong.

[edit on 7-2-2010 by Paradox.]

reply to post by AmethystSD


There are many ways to induce tragedy. I recommend you look into Aristotle's definition of tragedy, it explains how trauma can be induced. Interesting book I'll look into it, relates to programming and now I understand why the title drew you in!

reply to post by CHA0S

I commented in a thread recently where a guy argued that nothing matters because its all going to end You are essentially saying if life isn't eternal it has no meaning?!?

Very well said rhetoric. I could not agree more with your findings in that user's statement.

I share some of your views! I find religion as a way of providing humans with a comforting thought which would make them not question anything else.

Another point we both share is that lately people have grown to believe they are more important than they already are. We are important enough given the capability to think , rationalize , raise questions and so on, but for some that is not enough and i can see why. It is hard to fully accept the concept that everything might just end someday and no sane person will fully accept it because let's admit it , being here is not as bad as it seems , it's way better than nothing anyways.

With religion everything is already decided for you. However , i do find some small part of it being useful at some point in history stopping certain individuals from doing harm , but at the same time it has been used to harm many times in history so..it can go either way.

Just..live and experience everything around you...learn..observe...love..because sadly there might be a day you will not be able to do so anymore.

reply to post by Fatality


I agree with you. The Human Ego is such a strong mechanism. I would like to reinforce this with a quote earlier made by CHA0S:

It seems to me you are brainwashing yourself by completely believing there is this saviour called Jesus who will grant you eternal life in pure bliss if you follow his "guidlines" whilst in this physical world. And you ARE a TINY blip on a time-scale which is INFINITE...why is that so bad...is your ego that tender? You need to deal with the fact that you are no where near as important as you'd like to think

And that is one juicy quote. A bitter truth when looked at Religiously. But yes, we must come to the conclusion that life must be looked at from new perspectives and at an ultimatum we must liberate ourselves - it is the most pure form of "programming."

[edit on 8-2-2010 by Paradox.]

Originally posted by Paradox.
reply to post by Fatality

 

I agree with you. The Human Ego is such a strong mechanism. I would like to reinforce this with a quote earlier made by CHA0S:

It seems to me you are brainwashing yourself by completely believing there is this saviour called Jesus who will grant you eternal life in pure bliss if you follow his "guidlines" whilst in this physical world. And you ARE a TINY blip on a time-scale which is INFINITE...why is that so bad...is your ego that tender? You need to deal with the fact that you are no where near as important as you'd like to think

And that is one juicy quote. A bitter truth when looked at Religiously. But yes, we must come to the conclusion that life must be looked at from new perspectives and at an ultimatum we must liberate ourselves - it is the most pure form of "programming."

[edit on 8-2-2010 by Paradox.]

Brainwashing requires that you never consider the opposite from your own point of view. Seems to me that most of the people on this forum are completely against Christ without question of why. Yes, there are horrible attributes to religion, especially Christianity. But have you ever wondered if you have been programmed yourself to discount Jesus without question? You ask if my ego is tender? I say I have let my ego die long ago. you see I don't believe that I am important at all, in fact in my belief we are extremely wicked creatures that deserve nothing short of hell for our rebellion. But God Loved us enough to try to pay the penalty for us, yet so many refuse to accept it. You say you believe in life after death, just no consequences?

Oh...you say that people aren't that bad? Yes, right now they aren't. But put anyone in wordly conditions where resources are limited and watch what happens to your "inherently good" citizens. For example try Africa. Maybe its ego that keeps us from thinking that others in our own species won't ever try to rob from us or butcher our families. Technology has never and will never keep people from doing awful things; But people will get more advanced in their crime as technology increases. Instead of chopping off you arm, they will just tax you until you must work 75 hours a week to keep up with your own needs and pay your warlords.

You probably think I'm a life-long religion freak. Not true. About two years ago, I was a firm atheist. I was very imformed about my beliefs and how science worked and I just knew those religion freaks were deluded and fragile people. I used to take several arguments to work with me everyday to break my fundamentalist friend of his faith. He never really argued back. But through my own research to disprove his beliefs, I found out how stupid and wrong my beliefs were. I was programmed with a brainwashed program that I did liberate myself from.

I have found that it is extremely rare for a person to admit that they were ever wrong. So while I am telling people that without Jesus Christ they run the risk of entering hell, you're telling people to plug their ears and liberate their minds. If I was standing next to you and I said, "watch out, a truck is about to hit you!" Would you react? Would you investigate? or would you plug your ears and liberate your mind.

I realize that many religion say that same thing, so I guess you can use that argument if you feel that it is worth the risk. I personally have checked many of those claims myself and feel that I am on the righ path.

Human Ego is to say that we can liberate ourselves and that there is no one greater than us and that we don't have to follow his standards.

[edit on 8-2-2010 by Bilw85]

Do you realize that you accept the very same things you denounce? You were setup for failure from the start. It doesn't matter if you believe or you don't believe - you already accepted their premise of the question/idea. You already let them define god and things as such for you.

Does it really matter if you say yes or no, as long as you let me define the concepts for you? Even if you don't believe me and denounce the topic completely, you still let me define those things for you. You still accepted "my programming".

As such, if you think "they" really give a crap if you accept religion or not, then you are the one who is programmed. They don't give a crap if you believe 1 way or another, in fact - they need 2 sides. Because the 2 sides of the same coin will fight each other, all the while not even realizing they are basically exactly alike.

Why do you think they call rebellion the other side of the coin?

Does it even occur to you that your basis on god is based off what other people say and do, rather than any experience or understanding you might have on your own?

As for telling people they aren't important and trying to make them feel small - you are the center of your universe.

"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light , not our darkness, that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented and fabulous?

Actually, who are you not to be?

You are a child of god. Your playing small doesn't serve the world. There's nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you.

We were born to make and manifest the glory of god that is within us. It's not just in some of us; it's in everyone. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others."

-Marianne Williamson

reply to post by badmedia


Nicely said !

You really complete my own opinion this issue.
Although I think it's very disappointing to see my post, not even be replied on by it's author. After I read two posts were precisely a thing I have said in my reply.
They did get a reply.
I'll sure like to read what a reply will be on yours. If you get one.

I really enjoyed yours. Thanks !

reply to post by badmedia


Completely incorrect. You are missing something big - the argument in which Human Beings have the NEED (through genetics and evolutionary phases) to feel IMPORTANT. Look at your post, you claim to be the center of your universe. That is an outlandish claim with no evidence created, to stroke the ego of every Man on Earth who believes he is Important. I believe you are at the other end of the "programming" spectrum, at an extreme. One where instead of believing in a God, YOU are the center of your universe. I will repeat, "YOU, are not that God damn important." And if you can get over this and realize that this world is a system and you are a micro part of it, you will understand how insignificant you really are. But your ego would never ascertain.

When we get to the very bottom of BELIEF, whether it be Religious or Non-Religiously based, we can come to an absolute conclusion. The conclusion is, Human Beings, in general, can NOT accept the fact that death is the end of their lives. And through, and by any means POSSIBLE no matter how DOGMATIC (such as your quote is) Or appalling of a story to believe - we will believe it - Because we cannot accept what is defined as "death." Fear is our one true leader.

[edit on 8-2-2010 by Paradox.]

The answer to fear is knowledge, not dogmatism.

reply to post by Bilw85

If I was standing next to you and I said, "watch out, a truck is about to hit you!" Would you react? Would you investigate? or would you plug your ears and liberate your mind.

In this parable the truck, does not exist. I never said I don't believe in what we refer to as God. I believe there is a God-like force that animates all matter. And there is scientific documentation and proof of it's existence. I attended Catholic elementary/highschool for a total of 12 years I have experience on both ends of the spectrum you refer to. Refer to my post above the last one, the final paragraph. Through your researching you began to feel small and insignificant. You wanted to feel important and took on the Bible Story and accepted the dogmatic conclusion that you are part of God and he is watching you, judging you, and Jesus saved you. That is primitive thinking. Maybe it helped previous cultures through History like those dancing around fires to progress but it's time to liberate yourselves. You, did not liberate your mind. You put your mind at ease by falling into the Religious answer and now you can sleep better at night.

And to liberate your mind is to NOT plug your ears anymore. That is exactly was Religious belief is - Dogma (Plugging your ears). Not accepting a truth so shocking because it will not satifsy your fearful constraint to never accept death as presented.

[edit on 8-2-2010 by Paradox.]

[edit on 8-2-2010 by Paradox.]