Christians Did Not Invent Intelligent Design Theory

reply to post by maria_stardust


Perhaps some do know the designer????

Originally posted by The Matrix Traveller
Perhaps some do know the designer????

Perhaps in their hearts and minds, but that comes down to an issue of faith and personal belief, not fact.

reply to post by maria_stardust


Not talking about Faith I'm talking Actual knowledge....

Thoughts?????

Originally posted by The Matrix Traveller
Not talking about Faith I'm talking Actual knowledge....

Thoughts?????

It's impossible at this time to prove there's a designer. It comes down to a matter of faith and personal belief.

Please explain to me how "actual knowledge" can exist without verifiable fact to back it up. Just saying "you know" is not enough, that's a belief not a fact.

reply to post by maria_stardust

This premise makes absolutely no sense.

By default, the word design implies a designer. Otherwise, it's not intelligent design.

You got me on this one. Perhaps the Christians did invent the phrase intelligent design after all.

However Intelligence != Design.

We can debate about Realism all night long.

There is structure in nature and the universe. No one can deny that.

Perhaps there should be a theory called Intelligence Theory?

reply to post by maria_stardust


If anyone does Know... they certainly wouldn't say so, now would they???

The Human Species doesn't want to know.....
Besides the human species has a habit of cutting things up they can't understand.

Under the name of Science though of course. I guess I would do the same.

[edit on 8-2-2010 by The Matrix Traveller]

reply to post by Deaf Alien


Gotcha!

Seriously though, I remember a few years ago one of my brothers was casually delving into the study of Chaos Theory and the beauty and symmetry found within, e.g. fractals.

I don't much about this particular field of research, but for some odd reason it seems fitting to our little banter. Beauty and order derived from chaos.

reply to post by maria_stardust


Now I would agree with U here....

Originally posted by maria_stardust
reply to post by Deaf Alien

 

Gotcha!

Seriously though, I remember a few years ago one of my brothers was casually delving into the study of Chaos Theory and the beauty and symmetry found within, e.g. fractals.

I don't much about this particular field of research, but for some odd reason it seems fitting to our little banter. Beauty and order derived from chaos.

LOL well even in Chaos Theory there is order. Without order, there is no chaos.

I know you have seen mandelbrot set. Do you understand the principle behind it?

The order is necessary for existence, even in Chaos Theory.

It's that *%^&%$# PARADOX...

Understand the Paradox.... Establish the Algorithm and You will find the answer....

Originally posted by Deaf Alien

LOL well even in Chaos Theory there is order. Without order, there is no chaos.

I know you have seen mandelbrot set. Do you understand the principle behind it?

The order is necessary for existence, even in Chaos Theory.

On that note we can most certainly agree.

reply to post by maria_stardust

On that note we can most certainly agree.

Now you see where I am coming from

This intelligence or structure has always existed. No other way out of it. That's how the universe works. Evolution or natural selection is possible because of this.

Originally posted by maria_stardust

Originally posted by The Matrix Traveller
Not talking about Faith I'm talking Actual knowledge....

Thoughts?????

It's impossible at this time to prove there's a designer. It comes down to a matter of faith and personal belief.

Please explain to me how "actual knowledge" can exist without verifiable fact to back it up. Just saying "you know" is not enough, that's a belief not a fact.

1st clue...

It is an Algorithm (Geometric) that involves the Metamorphoses of a single form.

2nd Clue It involves the appearance of three Glyphs through the cycle

3rd Clue It contains complex, yet simple in structure Simultaneous functions.

Note; all that is known in the universe is either straight or curved or involves both.

I challenge you to show me another form, other than Curved, straight or the combination of these two???

If you can Not find any other form.... Why???

Is it because there is No Other???

So like I said there are Strict rules or Laws, that Govern our (all species) existence and experience (This Universe).

And perhaps it is Not as difficult as you might believe at present, to understand the Paradox its make up and Function ???

You are brain-washed into believing that it is a mystery when it actually isn't at all.

But what would I know???

I am told by some I ramble on....

Perhaps I do, but then again ???

Its all but a story, involving two ends of Awareness.... LOL.

Intelligence != Designer
It is hard to define what Intelligence is
Intelligence is not personal, but Christians (and other religious people) want to make it personal.

reply to post by Deaf Alien


Dictionary interpretation:

Intelligence; The ability to exercise mental Functions...

Here lays the ROOT of the Conspiracy against LIFE....

The Brain doesn't even know it exists nor does it know you...

Only Awareness is Aware that is why it is called Awareness.

The Flesh including the Brain is Not Aware...

Ask Your Brain if it knows You???

It won't answer you, unless You hear voices in your head... LOL.
And even then the Brain does Not hear.

The Brain is merely a Translator or an Encoder/Decoder of sorts...

The human Conspiracy against LIFE and ID is founded on the fallacy that the flesh is aware...

So in order to understand the true nature of intelligence we have to put aside the Brain and look at the Root, Not the Encoder/Decoder or Brain...

Originally posted by maria_stardust
I cannot prove that intelligent design does not exist

Because "blind watchmaker" evolution is unprovable.

You can only disprove one by first proving the other.

In other words, either both are science (falsifiable), or neither is.

This was brilliantly pointed out by atheist Thomas Nagel.

The contention seems to be that, although science can demonstrate the falsehood of the design hypothesis, no evidence against that demonstration can be regarded as scientific support for the hypothesis. Only the falsehood, and not the truth, of ID can count as a scientific claim.

His logic is flawless and exposes the irrationality of Darwinists.

[edit on 28-2-2010 by Mista Kool]

I beleive in science But remember, It addresses the biggst question of all with a theory of a pinprick of 'matter' exploding into everything, based on observation of what can be seen, some 14 billions after the event.
They may aswell say 'God did it', since it means no more to us than that anyway, because it cannot be proven so, and simply leads to more questions.
Frankly I find neither supposition more preposterous than the other.
Where did the pinprick of matter come from? Catch 22

The whole thing amuses me, Im here, Im dealing with it, just like the other 6 billion odd.
Why do we feel we must prove these things anyway?
You live, you die and nobody gives a damn what you beleived.

[edit on 28-2-2010 by wayaboveitall]

[edit on 28-2-2010 by wayaboveitall]

reply to post by Deaf Alien


Okay but intelleigent design has become a central plank in the xtian movement's outlook and debate (well actual arguement). As such those of us that take issue with those who preach hellfire and damnation for their own twisted reasons or proselytise for their own twisted reasons will explore it and debunk it

T

So in order to understand the true nature of intelligence we have to put aside the Brain and look at the Root, Not the Encoder/Decoder or Brain...

But by your own definition, you cant 'look at the root', its a concept.
When I think, synapses in my brain fire in a certain way, but your 'root',
is the causitive.
The causitive aka 'awareness' is a mystery that cannot be measured, no amount of dissection will discover it. Those who so choose, call this the 'soul'.
But which comes first, the thought or the firing synapse?

wouldnt it be a big blow to the ego to discover the firing synapse came first, that it was the causitive.



[edit on 28-2-2010 by wayaboveitall]

reply to post by wayaboveitall


What you have said is Correct, to some degree, but is overshadowed with the "human condition" of doubt and insecurity of the Species...
Part of the Paradox...

You wrote....

But by your own definition, you cant 'look at the root', its a concept.

This is Correct.... It is From a Concept ....except we do have the capacity to search and find our root and understand the principles involved as we are the offspring of the Paradox (The Opposites) anyway...
Don't feel so negative about yourself discover your full potential…
Computer Programers develop experiences for you from Concepts...
Concepts can be both Created, examined and used...

When I think, synapses in my brain fire in a certain way, but your 'root',
is the causitive.

This is indeed Correct...

Note; you show the opposite ends and that in between...
The junction point of two neurons across which a nerve impulses passes.
And you will find the same mechanics in All things... But in different Constructs as well.
All exists "Primarily" in Pairs, usually Opposites (or Similarities) depending on the Location observed in the Tree. (Directory Tree)

For example what you see in your vision exists between the Two opposites...

a. The Centre which is Nothing, having No Size or Shape, Yet in a very strange way is Something...
that is to say Nothing...

b. The Outward or outer which is Something having Size and Shape.

Your experience exists between these Two Opposites...

Which can't be denied...

Same theme as involved in, or behind your "Synapse", but in another location of The All.

The causitive aka 'awareness'

We agree on this...

is a mystery that cannot be measured,

But I disagree with you on this...

You just need to discover HOW...

no amount of dissection will discover it.

Depends on which of the Components in Question....

Those who so choose, call this the 'soul'.

I am not one of these, but know the Soul as the Construct that translates from Concepts to Manifestation.
Which I can show the "Partition Map" for that which is in every Soul..
Again this Partition Map is Contsructed of Concepts in The Beginning and End of The All.
All exists in something that has No Size or Shape and All is based on Conepts having its foundation on Concepts used as Laws in its Processing..

But which comes first, the thought or the firing synapse?

And where do these Two come From????

wouldnt it be a big blow to the ego to discover the firing synapse came first, that it was the causitive.

An even bigger blow to discover the Origin of these Two.

Perhaps a much different origin than the human species could imagine.... LOL


[edit on 28-2-2010 by The Matrix Traveller]