Christians Did Not Invent Intelligent Design Theory

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posted on Feb, 6 2010 @ 05:52 PM
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Socrates (c. 469-399 B.C.) argued that the adaptation of human parts to one another, such as the eyelids protecting the eyeballs, could not have been due to chance and was a sign of wise planning in the universe.

Plato (c. 427–c. 347 B.C.) posited a "demiurge" of supreme wisdom and intelligence as the creator of the cosmos in his work Timaeus. For Plato, the demiurge lacked the supernatural ability to create ex nihilo or out of nothing. The demiurge was able only to organize the "ananke" (αναγκη). The ananke was the only other co-existent element or presence in Plato's cosmogony. Plato's teleological perspective is also built upon the analysis of a priori order and structure in the world that he had already presented in The Republic.

Aristotle (c. 384–322 B.C.) argued that all nature reflects inherent purposiveness and direction. In his Metaphysics, he demonstrated the existence of God, not a creator (for Aristotle the cosmos always existed) but as a "Prime Mover" who kept nature in motion. He described the prime mover as 'self-thinking thought," but believed that it did not lower itself to consider nature or relate to human beings.

Cicero (c. 106–c. 43 B.C.) an early teleological argument in De Natura Deorum (On the Nature of the Gods). He stated, "The divine power is to be found in a principle of reason that pervades the whole of nature".
"When you see a sundial or a water-clock, you see that it tells the time by design and not by chance. How then can you imagine that the universe as a whole is devoid of purpose and intelligence, when it embraces everything, including these artifacts themselves and their artificers?" (Cicero, De Natura Deorum, ii. 34)
And that's just on the surface.

It seems that many think that people who introduce Intelligent Design theory in various areas have hidden agenda. They say that they are really introducing creationism. But the theory of intelligent design predates christianity.

Intelligent Design theory is nothing new. It does not equal the Biblical account of creationism. It does not even have to invoke any god.

The Greek philosophers noticed something about nature and the universe.

Some people may have hidden agenda, but not all.

Again, intelligent design != biblical creationism.




posted on Feb, 6 2010 @ 05:55 PM
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Interesting to note that every single one of the sources you've mentioned are philosophers. So, yes, the premise of intelligent design falls squarely in the realm of metaphysics, and to a certain extent, faith.



posted on Feb, 6 2010 @ 06:02 PM
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reply to post by maria_stardust
 


Yes, but as I have said, Christians did not invent the idea.

No one can accuse anyone, especially people with Ph.D., of having "hidden agenda".

There are some scientists who are not Christians or even religious, and yet subscribe to the intelligent design theory.



posted on Feb, 6 2010 @ 06:11 PM
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reply to post by Deaf Alien
 


Sure, scientists can subscribe to a belief in ID as perhaps a matter of faith or philosophical meanderings. But that doesn't bring the said belief any closer to the realm of science.



posted on Feb, 6 2010 @ 06:34 PM
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reply to post by maria_stardust
 


I think aspects of ID are compatible with aspects of Evolution. I think both are based on OBSERVATION.

Example(but just a speculative example) = Aliens evolved on another world and came to earth and Created lifeforms here. See both wrapped into one.

There are many more ways to combine the two.

But I really like this thread, there is some good information in here.

I would also like to suggest this great book for anyone interested in what the OP is sharing with us.

"The Tao of Physics"

I highly recommend it. It discusses information very similar to this, like how Westernized belief stems directly from Ancient Greek philosophers. Tons of great info in that book. Go get a copy!

[edit on 6-2-2010 by muzzleflash]



posted on Feb, 6 2010 @ 06:45 PM
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Star and Flag for you...

Science is also based on Philosophy... The Philosophy of Science.

Science is only the Human interpretation of given Phenomenon so Science itself is based on human belief as regards to their interpretation being Fact or of theory.

Intelligent design was around Long before A'DAM or any other species was ever thought of.

Intelligent design is Not a religion…. But religion has misrepresented Intelligent Design by inventing their own version, based on human interpretation and just as human science is based on human interpretation, founded on the rules laid down by the human species themselves.

If the human species was so advanced in the understanding of the universe, we would be crossing galaxies in minutes and even crossing between Universes.

But the fact remains we aren't!

If humankind really understood the human species, we would not have to have hospitals.

But the fact remains humanity requires hospitals!

The problems of society today are the result of ignorance, Not knowledge.

The Human Species has to get over themselves, and stop pretending or stop BS ing themselves and ask the most feared of questions, realising we are very, very, primitive and don't know much at all, if anything…

We have been brain washed by sales BS…..

One only has to look at the very structure of existence before the first cellular structures appeared to realise there is design in the structure of existence..

If this is Not the cases then there can't be any laws of physics and nothing at all, would retain or even change in structure.

I can Not accept that the Laws of physics do not exist….

But the problem remains in the human interpretation of All.



posted on Feb, 6 2010 @ 06:55 PM
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You guys can wax poetic on subject of intelligent design all you want, but it is still a matter of philosophical conjecture. Until someone can test its premise through the scientific method that's where it will remain.



posted on Feb, 6 2010 @ 07:03 PM
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Let me ask a question:

Just because one can intelligently design and build something, does that mean it's absolutely impossible for the things one is able to design, to randomly appear if one waits long enough?

Given enough time, anything is possible. Because this universe, and the things that exist within it, appear highly complex and detailed, our simplistic human minds often jump to the conclusion that some sort of higher being must have designed it all...now, I'm not saying God(s) don't exist, because I really have no idea at all, and as I often say, it's just as ignorant to state Go does exist, as it is to say he doesn't...also, I'm a very philosophical guy, and I'm heavily into metaphysics (it's probably my favorite topic to discuss and study). I think, if God does exist..."he" was the one that created something from nothing, "he" supplied the sudden burst of energy which exploded into existence in the big bang...and that energy is the fundamental constituent to everything in our universe...everything is energy...and over time that energy has naturally formed everything we see in the universe, including all life-forms, and even ourselves...and evolution is also real, it's basically a fact in my mind...basically what I'm saying here is: God(s) created the spark from which everything in our universe would manifest, "he" planted the seed from which everything would spawn..."he" has no real part in the design of anything..."he" lets natural processes take care of that part...

[edit on 6/2/10 by CHA0S]



posted on Feb, 6 2010 @ 07:08 PM
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reply to post by Deaf Alien
 


I'm sure most Evolutionists are with me when I say those people that you listed are the biggest losers ever and they have a combined IQ of 1.

I'm with Darwin and Dr. NWO all the way to hell.

[/sarcasm]

I wonder WHY they DON'T teach THIS stuff IN school?

Hmmmm?



posted on Feb, 6 2010 @ 07:11 PM
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reply to post by maria_stardust
 


I am listening Prove to me that ID does NOT exist.

Convince me????

Please Keep Religion out of your Answer as I am NOT religious
even though I often talk about religion!



posted on Feb, 6 2010 @ 07:14 PM
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reply to post by Jinni
 


Because humanity is at war against LIFE or Consciousness.

Humankind thinks they are the best thing going but are really primitive!



posted on Feb, 6 2010 @ 07:15 PM
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reply to post by The Matrix Traveller
 


Nice try. I cannot prove that intelligent design does not exist any more than you can prove that it does. In order to prove something as fact it would have to be scrutinized through the scientific method, and we both know that's just not possible.



posted on Feb, 6 2010 @ 07:21 PM
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reply to post by CHA0S
 


I understand what you are saying.

But... we see the structures in everything, down to quantum mechanics. And we learn about the platonic solids, etc., etc. And yet we didn't even see any kind of god. We see order in these. We see "intelligence" in them.

Of course Christians (or Muslims or any religious people) would be quick to say that their gods designed everything. But this idea is nothing new.

Natural selection is just rubbing against obstacles.



posted on Feb, 6 2010 @ 07:39 PM
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reply to post by Deaf Alien
 



But... we see the structures in everything
----
We see order in these. We see "intelligence" in them.
Of course you will see structure and order in everything...from chaos comes order and from order comes chaos...but order and structure isn't always indicative of intelligence...even the quantum level, and smaller, will show structure and order, because even though they seem like fundamental levels from our perspective, they really aren't, we still have an array of levels to go through before we reach pure and fundamental energy...this is the level where you will lose order and structure...but even so, you will still see order and structure...there is order and structure in EVERYTHING, but this doesn't mean an intelligence is responsible for it...

[edit on 6/2/10 by CHA0S]



posted on Feb, 6 2010 @ 07:50 PM
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ID is extant before all, and from earliest witnesses of man illustrated in Cave painting and then Petroglyph, it is apparent that it was then recognized and attempts were made at mapping it out.

The first Astronomical observance (and ultimately Zodiac) found in the Tepe's shows early man attempting a Calendar with which to plot the seasons, as well as measure to calculate the sphere of the Earth.

Ironically the earliest symbol for GOD was the EL icon glyph (in archaic ligature phase Hebrew) which reveals the Earth on a tilted axis, and its largest circle being 'a Day' (or a very long cycle) accompanies the several other time-symbol icons (having a circle) being 'a Year' like a star of david (12 lines around a circle) 'a Month' with the same size circle 'orbiting' around a dot, and 'a Week' 7-minorah having as a base the small circle (of a mans head size).

The proof of "GOD" was that ID was observed, either in the tilted Earth (for the seasons), or in the Sun and Moon (for weather and tides) being the same size when viewed from the Earth! Science may be founded upon 'reasonable doubt', but in its wonder at processing the rigors of testing "what is truth" it has by process of time progressed to arriving upon the miraculous!



posted on Feb, 6 2010 @ 07:55 PM
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reply to post by CHA0S
 


May I suggest that all is produced through Intelligence and that Intelligence was Not the First ???

I think you will find Awareness is the Root of All ???



posted on Feb, 6 2010 @ 08:01 PM
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reply to post by YeHUaH ELaHaYNU
 


I agree 101% with You...

Did you know in Chinese, that the Words, King and Sun are formed by two E's ???

I pair forming two rectangles one on top of the other meaning SUN

And the other is two E's Back to back meaning a King.... ????



posted on Feb, 6 2010 @ 08:04 PM
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reply to post by The Matrix Traveller
 


I'm not sure I fully understand what you are proposing? A little more explanation would be great...



posted on Feb, 6 2010 @ 08:09 PM
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reply to post by YeHUaH ELaHaYNU
 


I'll give you a star for your good post.



ID is extant before all, and from earliest witnesses of man illustrated in Cave painting and then Petroglyph, it is apparent that it was then recognized and attempts were made at mapping it out.


Thank you. You have shown that further back humans have recognized ID idea. To claim that anyone following ID has "hidden agenda" is false.



The first Astronomical observance (and ultimately Zodiac) found in the Tepe's shows early man attempting a Calendar with which to plot the seasons, as well as measure to calculate the sphere of the Earth.


Yes? That's just astronomy.



Ironically the earliest symbol for GOD was the EL icon glyph (in archaic ligature phase Hebrew) which reveals the Earth on a tilted axis, and its largest circle being 'a Day' (or a very long cycle) accompanies the several other time-symbol icons (having a circle) being 'a Year' like a star of david (12 lines around a circle) 'a Month' with the same size circle 'orbiting' around a dot, and 'a Week' 7-minorah having as a base the small circle (of a mans head size).


Can you provide sources for that information? I am interested.



The proof of "GOD" was that ID was observed, either in the tilted Earth (for the seasons), or in the Sun and Moon (for weather and tides) being the same size when viewed from the Earth! Science may be founded upon 'reasonable doubt', but in its wonder at processing the rigors of testing "what is truth" it has by process of time progressed to arriving upon the miraculous!


It's a pretty big leap from observance of nature and the universe to attributing them to gods.

Perhaps we need to define the term god and intelligence.



posted on Feb, 6 2010 @ 08:11 PM
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reply to post by maria_stardust
 


Yes it all is a bit of a fickle isn't it and I agree with You 100% on this...

Perhaps we should seriously search for Clues either way m???





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