Christians Desecrate Wiccan Religious Site at Air Force Academy

reply to post by Mykahel


You go from degrading Islam,which from what I know of it is a terrible religion, to degrading scientology.... Really,man, why don't you get off of your "righteous" high horse and look at all of the posters saying that it probably wasn't even Christians who did this? Or, are you just looking for a reason to whine?

Originally posted by Mykahel
Wow, so many people here upset that Christians did something to mock another religion and then half of the thread is full of people mocking Christians.

I was pointing out hypocrisy, It's a fun thing to do, please allow me to demonstrate in the next quoted portion of your post.

Comparing Christians to Muslims. It's as different as night and day. You say Christians are all about infiltrating and establishing their own laws to make people do things their way and that its worse than in Muslim nations? Right... because Muslims nations force Sharia (muslim) law on the people in broad daylight and allow if not encourage acts of murder against people who do not believe the same as they do.

Christians infiltrated our own government right from the start, in fact, if any candidate is anything other than Christian, they must hide that fact or face ridicule from the religious right in this country, case in point, just the idea that Obama might be a Muslim is enough for scorn and ridicule on this site alone, not to mention other sites that aren't as well moderated.

America is supposed to be a religiously neutral country. However, it's not. Christians have their own versions of extremist groups akin to Al Qaeda, the KKK, the Army of God, the Westborough Baptist Church are three such Christian extremist groups that come to mind right off the bat.

The ignorance in your post that Muslim nations enforce Sharia on their people is absurd, certainly some do, others do not. But because they are Muslim countries, I guess it's quite fine to group them all together right? But to hell with anyone that could claim the same thing about Christians.

It's also why some of us Christians hate almost everything about how our government is handled.

Well, perhaps if you took the idea of God out of politics, kept them separate in your life, you might have a better understanding of both. That's just my opinion, not an actual fact.

Understand I am not putting down all Muslims, I have made my position about Muslims and Islam numerous times in other posts. I

Did you forget something here?

Nobody needs a tax funded place of worship. Let the people worshiping build the place themselves, like most churches. As far as I am concerned church buildings have been a blight to the faith for centuries anyway. The early believers would meet in homes because it was not safe for them elsewhere. It also did wonderful things for developing the fellowship and friendship that is vital to having a healthy community. We are heading to that same thing today if these hate laws keep passing making it a crime to say that anything is a sin.

I recall this church I used to pass by every once and a while, I used to call it the Bank of Christ, in design it looked a lot like a bank, and it seemed that every time that I had passed it, the people that owned it were building onto it.

Sure, putting a cross in the middle of somebody else's area of worship is disrespectful and wrong. The main thing that I hate about it is that it does exactly the opposite of what we as Christians are supposed to do. As a result of stuff like this, more and more people are being turned away from the real faith and freedom that is found in Christ.

"And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature."

Kind of what your biblical texts do teach, well except I don't see a lot of Christians going out and preaching the gospel to the animals, the bible does say every creature, there are penguins that haven't heard the teachings of Christ, and I would love to see a polar bear converted.

I am a Christian, and yes I will fight for my freedom. Not because it is something America has given me. America itself once acknowledged that it was God who gave us these gifts such as real freedom. God has purchased us at the cost of His only Son, and as a result He does not want us selling ourselves into the service of another master.

See, now you are mixing what God gave you through Jesus, and what the Constitution gives you, they are completely separate things, Jesus did not found the United States, despite what some Christians believe.

End point, what they did was wrong, but it in no way compares to the evils I see day after day perpetrated by the Islamic extremists and our own corrupt government. (not trying to justify it or even excuse it, but it is naive to think it even compares)

I don't see the difference at all, both are cases of intolerance, and it's not that Christians haven't been culpable of murder in the past, even the recent past. It just like Muslim Extremists was an act of terrorism. Hate crime? Not really, act of terrorism? Yep. Sure this time they didn't torch the Pagans on a stake, but that's this time.

Because if Christians are to follow the text of their own holy book it states quite clearly in Exodus 22:18, Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

18Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

19Whosoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death.

20He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed.

Kinda the Christian version of Sharia law there isn't it?

Sorry for the long post. Wanted to make a point and be clear about it.

Quite clear.

[edit on 2/6/2010 by whatukno]

reply to post by whatukno

I was pointing out hypocrisy, It's a fun thing to do, please allow me to demonstrate in the next quoted portion of your post.

I fail to see where my speech has gone against my actions. In what way have I been hypocritical? Are you simply throwing names to diminish my credibility? Perhaps I am not always correct on everything I say, but that does not make me a fake. I say what I believe to be true and act on it until proven otherwise.

Christians infiltrated our own government right from the start, in fact, if any candidate is anything other than Christian, they must hide that fact or face ridicule from the religious right in this country, case in point, just the idea that Obama might be a Muslim is enough for scorn and ridicule on this site alone, not to mention other sites that aren't as well moderated.

Of course there are going to be Christians involved in government, just like any other religious group has the opportunity. "Infiltrate" makes it sound as though they have negative intentions for getting in. In some cases, maybe they have, but they are not Christians but rather the very hypocrites you speak of who claim Christ to get the vote and then do unspeakable things once in office. Should all religious people be banned from politics?

America is supposed to be a religiously neutral country. However, it's not. Christians have their own versions of extremist groups akin to Al Qaeda, the KKK, the Army of God, the Westborough Baptist Church are three such Christian extremist groups that come to mind right off the bat.

These groups (who are not christian extremists but instead some foul perversion of the faith) do nothing to change the neutrality of the government towards its people. Are these things being run by the government or receiving favor above and beyond any other religious group?

America was designed to be neutral but it was also established under ONE GOD by a group of men who were made up of both atheist and Christian alike. Christian principles founded much of this nation. There is less of Christ in our government now than there ever was in the past. Do a google search on the faith of the early founders if you bought the lie that they were all godless men and that God has nothing to do with our nations origin.

“In the beginning of the contest with Britain, when we were sensible of danger, we had daily prayers in this room for Divine protection. Our prayers, Sir, were heard, and they were graciously answered… do we imagine we no longer need His assistance?” [Constitutional Convention, Thursday June 28, 1787] -Benjamin Franklin

"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." --October 11, 1798 - John Adams

Just a couple good ones. The reason the government is so far from working is because there is so much wickedness both in and out of politics according to these guys.

The ignorance in your post that Muslim nations enforce Sharia on their people is absurd, certainly some do, others do not. But because they are Muslim countries, I guess it's quite fine to group them all together right? But to hell with anyone that could claim the same thing about Christians.

Sure, not all of them do. The only absolute I cling to is God and his word. Just about everything else has exceptions. Christianity does not demand that a country abides by its teachings, though we would like it. Islam does. Islam is not just a religion. It is a social and economic system as well. Am I ignorant to this... really?

reply to post by whatukno

Did you forget something here?

Yes, I did. A teacher of mine once said:
Do not judge Muslims by what you know of Islam, and do not judge Islam by the Muslims you know."

In other words, not all Muslims are evil like the Islamic faith would train them to be, but we can not tolerate Islam and its evils just because we know some Muslims who are good people. This quote could be used for just about any group, but especially the bad ones. Politicians might fit in well!

"And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature."

Kind of what your biblical texts do teach, well except I don't see a lot of Christians going out and preaching the gospel to the animals, the bible does say every creature, there are penguins that haven't heard the teachings of Christ, and I would love to see a polar bear converted.

Please don't use the KJV to make theological points, it is outdated and often times mistranslated. Your argument would be better to go back to King David and other Israelite kings who tore down the worship areas and idols of other religions. What I am saying is that they should be respectful, whoever they are whether they are Christians or not.

See, now you are mixing what God gave you through Jesus, and what the Constitution gives you, they are completely separate things, Jesus did not found the United States, despite what some Christians believe.

Check out some of those great quotes by the Christians who founded America and based its common law and constitution off of God's very law. Not all were Christians, but those who weren't still accepted the Christian principles that paved the way for our (once) great nation. It's not an opinion of most Christians, its just fact.

Kinda the Christian version of Sharia law there isn't it?

Not really. You need to know about abrogation, a very important thing for understanding the Koran. The Koran is the last revelation given to the Muslims. No prophet or scripture is supposed to come after Muhammad and the last words he gave were instructing the destruction of those not in their faith. This command overrides anything given earlier in the Koran about being at peace with other religions.

The blood of Christ is what has made it so that the immediate punishment for those various sins mentioned in the Old Testament do not have to befall us. The Israelite people were a people who meshed their faith with their governing system and did so as to remain separated and distinct from the pagan nations around them. This is probably where the Muhammad got the idea. Christians still acknowledge that the wages for all sin is still death, just like what you quoted, but we also understand that the death that we would have had to suffer was already paid for. We've accepted a savior to free us from that punishment, but those who reject Christ will one day have to face the punishment for their sins that they committed while they lived. There's my preaching for now... Was I clear this time?

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
Sorry, but this kind of uneducated, ignorant crap really ticks me off... You make wild accusations with no basis in fact whatsoever...

May i refer you to the title of this thread?

IMO just by reading that, it seems You have already come to the conclusion that Christians were automatically responsible for this "desecration".

again, IMO it seems a few young airmen came to the decision that it would be funny at the time to pull such a stunt.

you see it all the time in highschools now in days. Kids from another school come over and tag/desecrate a mascot or whatever and everybody gets pi$*ed off.

but is it logical to take it out on the other school as a whole?

Or just be angry at the few "radicles" that simply have a childish mindset?

Ask a few guys in the military. It usually are these young recruits that continue to maintain this very same "childish mindset".

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
From you, I would expect such a childish reply... Would you be laughing so hard if a group of Pagans went around drawing pentacles in Christian Churches??? No, I'd bet you would be calling for the death penalty...

...

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
Unlike Christianity, Wicca has no dark agenda... We have no Satan, no Hell, and we do not attempt to convert others, especially through FEAR, like the Christians do! This thread is reaking havoc on my blood pressure...

... I may not believe in all of the Christian perspectives, but i am still christian. I admit and am afraid that a lot of those perspectives and morals have been twisted and misinterpreted by "MAN" and certain aspects have been currupted. but by you saying "all Christains" you include me in your personal attack and i WILL respond and defend my beleifs.

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
Get educated before shoving your foot down your throat... Your ignorance here is mind-numbing...

... in case you missed it, that was my response.

reply to post by H4W4II4N_PUNCH


Fancy bit of quote mining there... It's easy to get them to fit your needs when you take them completely out of context...

And I know all about Christianity... I was a practicing Christian for many years, brought up in a Christian school, so nice try, but you fail...

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts

Fancy bit of quote mining there...

Thank you, i am quite proud of it myself

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
It's easy to get them to fit your needs when you take them completely out of context...

ok, here's some facts on "quote mining"

rationalwiki.com...

Please educate yourself because i don't like it when...

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
You make wild accusations with no basis in fact whatsoever...

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
And I know all about Christianity... I was a practicing Christian for many years, brought up in a Christian school, so nice try, but you fail...

hmmm... so your defending Christianity now and i fail?

It seems as though you having difficulty drawing your own conclusions, so... exactly which flock of sheep do you intend to follow?

I also beleive it was your wounded ego that resulted in a (not very well thought out) immediate response.

*EDIT*

Although... i am guilty of quote mining you in the end, where i left out "I'm out!"

... i can see how that alters your overall perspective and takes things way out of context.

I believe i owe you an apology JaxonRoberts. I apologize for Desecrating your ignorance with logic.

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
I'm out!

[edit on 7-2-2010 by H4W4II4N_PUNCH]

reply to post by H4W4II4N_PUNCH


Now I see what you're really up to here... You are TROLLing for a fight... Well, flame on Sparky, 'cuz I'm not in the mood to play with you... You want to have a real debate, let me know and we'll take it to the debate forum where quote mining and other such tripe is not allowed, nor tolerated. And just for the record, you don't owe me an apology... You owe ATS an apology for such childish tactics...

Later, Troll...

reply to post by SpeakerofTruth


The fact that others, not pagans, are making a fuss needs to be examined a bit more closely. They probably have an agenda or gripe against the christians, but as stated before (which you agree with), there is nothing linking christians to this act.