The children of illegal aliens (anchor babies) have bankrupted the state of California

when i was going to school i worked for a japanese restaurant in florida. there were asians, mexicans, white, black and a bartender from spain. they used to all make fun of the asians because of the small you know what stereo-type, of course the asians laughed about it and added to the jokes. the blacks would make fun of the whites. the mexican call the blacks "negroe" and they would laugh because negroe really translates to "black" in spanish and they laughed. the whites made fun of the asians because it's common knowledge that their eyes are chinky or slanted and they laughed because none of the asians there had chinky eyes. the guy from spain would argue with the mexican guy about soccer and sometimes they get serious but they both laugh when they crack jokes on the asians and they'd forget all about soccer. we would hang out after work shooting pool or go to a club in tampa, have a good time and we'd forget that we're a bunch of different races. we would go home, go to sleep and come back the next evening and repeat. the jokes never gets old and someone would always laugh.

whats this got to do with illegals? nothing. face it, this thread is not about your tax dollar. more about race and the country you're from than emegency room shutting down. the people who work in those emergency room gets paid with or without them and they will always have a job as long as people are dying, suffering sick or about to die or dead. we all pay our taxes regardless, if its not spent in one way it'll be spent in another. the war in iraq costed us more than 600 billion USD while these illegals cost us 10-15 billion a year, accounting for taxes they paid. why don't you cry about us investing hundreds of billions to find ways to kill more efficiently or are you too proud of an american to do that.

i for one would like to spend my tax dollar on helping those who are lazy than to kill those we don't know.

[edit on 28-1-2010 by DOADOA]

Originally posted by DOADOA
whats this got to do with illegals? nothing. face it, this thread is not about your tax dollar. more about race and the country you're from than emegency room shutting down.

Can you please make a connection between racism and the fact that over a long enough time, the social safety nets will collapse for everyone? Just because you say its racism does not make it so. And personal attacks are a good sign you've lost the argument, and insinuating that someone is racist without any evidence is a personal attack.

That being said, illegal aliens do contribute to the system. It is true that illegal aliens pay taxes. They pay through sales tax, utilities, auto registration, and some even pay income tax (through one means or another). But the problem is, we don't know who is paying what because they're undocumented! We don't even have an exact number for how many are living and working here. So why not grant all of them guest worker visas, so at least we can have some sort of idea on how many are here, and so that they all pay their equal share for the services we all use? Criminals and undocumented persons (after a certain date) will be deported.

The influx of illegal aliens is another issue altogether. A wall is simply ineffective. There isn't enough manpower and the span is too vast, people are going to get in no matter what. There's really no good solution to this other than addressing the reason why they come to the United States in the first place, and that's Free Trade, "Free" being used in the most loosely of ways. Basically, a bunch of big US companies set up shop in Mexico, building huge factories producing products that were much cheaper than what the local economies could produce. As a result, the economy crashed, people lost their farms, their lands and thus sources of income to these huge companies. Many went to work in the factories at very low wages and poor working conditions. So they don't come here because they love America. They don't come here for the weather, the food, baseball or apple pie. They come here because they don't have a choice. Choice is a mark of a free man, and ironically, it was "Free" Trade that brought them here. And therein lies the answer, abolish Free Trade. Make it in Mexico, sell it in Mexico. Make it in the USA, sell it in the USA. We would, on both sides, benefit from this.

Originally posted by scrybe

Originally posted by DOADOA
Make it in Mexico, sell it in Mexico. Make it in the USA, sell it in the USA. We would, on both sides, benefit from this.

thats the thing no one buys US anymore cus its made cheaper elsewhere in china at the original request of america !

With great caution, I enter this thread. Some pretty unhappy people on here.

There has to be a middle ground. Somewhere we must find it, and implement it.

Are illegals causing financial stress in a few states? No doubt they have.

But on the otherhand, there have been people who have lived and worked here for decades. They have jobs, families. Lives. The U.S. is their home every bit as much as it is ours.

We can't ask them to leave their homes, anymore than any other person who has made a life for themselves here.

The cases need to be examined one by one. The folks who have made the U.S. their home, and have good lives here, should absolutely be permitted to stay. To send them away would not be the right thing to do. We should give them their citizenship.

The other element, and yes I mean "element".......the criminals, gang bangers, and drug dealers, are most certainly Not welcome here.

To cause assessments/investigations of this nature would cost a great deal of money. But until the states/government decide to spend it, there will continue to be controversy over this issue.



[edit on 1/28/2010 by ladyinwaiting]

reply to post by sapien82


........at the request of the American corporations

We're now (mostly) a service/medical/military economy. No amount of cheap plastic toys from China are gonna save us. We need to make and sell our own baubles.

reply to post by Night Star


Can I ask why your unemployed? Im sure you have a valid reason and I dont want to rub it against you. But I want to say a couple of things because you said that. Now I stated this before and Ill say it again, yes Im ok with forcing the good laws, and I dont mind that some illegal criminals be taken back, thats all great and everything. But I dont see how if our tax money goes out to people in need, why thats a horrible thing?

Now im gonna say this because it adds to my question of why your unemployed. I dont ask about your husban because like you said he is disabled. But I have a short story to tell. My father is from El Salvador, he came here with his friend/neigbhoor at the age of 17 for the most part they walked and hitched rides, sometimes a bus as well, working a long the way for food and a place to stay. They both crossed over illegaly and stayed here for a short time. My father went back after he missed his home but his friend stayed. You wanted to know how poor people get money to buy illegal documents? Easy, you walk up to a house and ask to cut their yards. Where do you think the eterotypical mexican comes from?
The little money the get helps to pay rent in a home filled with illegals. With that money they get their fake papers. Well, my dads friend couldnt cut yards but he was a beat with a welding machine. Its been over 33 years since then and my dads friend now lives in California with a 3 million dollar mansion, his own welding company and several apartment complexes under his name. My father is a chef at a local resturant my mother who was also her illegal is now a supervisor in Medical billing for Parkland hosiptal. She raised 3 kids alone for 13 years and made it on her own. So when I hear reason behind why people complain and get mad or are unemployed and cant find a job, I laugh because I know their is no excuse.

Peace!

reply to post by Bombeni


I dont know about anything else but I do know that I could work in Mexico if I wanted to. Maybe not the nice places but I could work at a taco stand or a bar or some small time resturant. Im not a Mexican by birth, Im a legal US citizen, but I have worked in Mexico before no problem, the problem is the condition in which they have to work. The pay they get, its all crappy.

[edit on 28-1-2010 by Armour For Victor]

Originally posted by Armour For Victor
reply to post by Night Star

 

Can I ask why your unemployed? Im sure you have a valid reason and I dont want to rub it against you. But I want to say a couple of things because you said that. Now I stated this before and Ill say it again, yes Im ok with forcing the good laws, and I dont mind that some illegal criminals be taken back, thats all great and everything. But I dont see how if our tax money goes out to people in need, why thats a horrible thing?

Now im gonna say this because it adds to my question of why your unemployed. I dont ask about your husban because like you said he is disabled. But I have a short story to tell. My father is from El Salvador, he came here with his friend/neigbhoor at the age of 17 for the most part they walked and hitched rides, sometimes a bus as well, working a long the way for food and a place to stay. They both crossed over illegaly and stayed here for a short time. My father went back after he missed his home but his friend stayed. You wanted to know how poor people get money to buy illegal documents? Easy, you walk up to a house and ask to cut their yards. Where do you think the eterotypical mexican comes from?
The little money the get helps to pay rent in a home filled with illegals. With that money they get their fake papers. Well, my dads friend couldnt cut yards but he was a beat with a welding machine. Its been over 33 years since then and my dads friend now lives in California with a 3 million dollar mansion, his own welding company and several apartment complexes under his name. My father is a chef at a local resturant my mother who was also her illegal is now a supervisor in Medical billing for Parkland hosiptal. She raised 3 kids alone for 13 years and made it on her own. So when I hear reason behind why people complain and get mad or are unemployed and cant find a job, I laugh because I know their is no excuse.

Peace!

I lost my job because the place closed. Our tax dollars are helping some people, not all. Laugh at me all you want.

reply to post by Night Star


Easy now, i wasnt laughing at you, only at people who I know are too lazy to find a job, some people wont take a job if they are taking a pay cut from the job they lost. To me thats being selfish especially if the market is down and he/she complains about illegals taking all the jobs.

If you claim to be unemployed but wont go out and find a job then I feel you have no place in complaining about illegals taking jobs.

Now if you are unemployed for some good reason then I have no place in saying anything.

Im 23 and ive had 9 jobs so far, started working at the age of 12. Now because im young you might assume I know little about anything let alone the immigration system and you may be right, but both my parents are immigrants, both were illegal until the amnesty of 86, so I know enough.

Peace!

You are correct, there are those who will only work for a certain amount. On an extention of unemployment they will have to accept minum wage. I lived on low wages most of my life until my last job. I always spent my money wisely, never got in debt with credit cards, never owned a house of my own and have only recently purchased a pre-paid cell phone just for emergencies. I have never taken anything or anyone for granted and have always placed more importance on the simple things in life. I have always helped those less fortunate than myself.

If more countries could help their own people, things wouldn't be so crazy. It all comes down to corporate greed. If I won a lottery and became rich, my conscience wouldn't allow me to own a mansion or thousand dollar shoes like some rich people.

Originally posted by Erasurehead
Maybe we should have immigration laws like Mexico.

Mexico's main immigration law:

Mexico welcomes only foreigners who will be useful to Mexican society:

Foreigners are admitted into Mexico "according to their possibilities of contributing to national progress." (Article 32)

Immigration officials must "ensure" that "immigrants will be useful elements for the country and that they have the necessary funds for their sustenance" and for their dependents. (Article 34)

Foreigners may be barred from the country if their presence upsets "the equilibrium of the national demographics," when foreigners are deemed detrimental to "economic or national interests," when they do not behave like good citizens in their own country, when they have broken Mexican laws, and when "they are not found to be physically or mentally healthy." (Article 37)

The Secretary of Governance may "suspend or prohibit the admission of foreigners when he determines it to be in the national interest." (Article 38)

Mexican authorities must keep track of every single person in the country:

Federal, local and municipal police must cooperate with federal immigration authorities upon request, i.e., to assist in the arrests of illegal immigrants. (Article 73)

A National Population Registry keeps track of "every single individual who comprises the population of the country," and verifies each individual's identity. (Articles 85 and 86)

A national Catalog of Foreigners tracks foreign tourists and immigrants (Article 87), and assigns each individual with a unique tracking number (Article 91).

Foreigners with fake papers, or who enter the country under false pretenses, may be imprisoned:

Foreigners with fake immigration papers may be fined or imprisoned. (Article 116)

Foreigners who sign government documents "with a signature that is false or different from that which he normally uses" are subject to fine and imprisonment. (Article 116)

Foreigners who fail to obey the rules will be fined, deported, and/or imprisoned as felons:

Foreigners who fail to obey a deportation order are to be punished. (Article 117)

Foreigners who are deported from Mexico and attempt to re-enter the country without authorization can be imprisoned for up to 10 years. (Article 118)

Foreigners who violate the terms of their visa may be sentenced to up to six years in prison (Articles 119, 120 and 121). Foreigners who misrepresent the terms of their visa while in Mexico -- such as working with out a permit -- can also be imprisoned.

Under Mexican law, illegal immigration is a felony. The General Law on Population says,

"A penalty of up to two years in prison and a fine of three hundred to five thousand pesos will be imposed on the foreigner who enters the country illegally." (Article 123)

Foreigners with legal immigration problems may be deported from Mexico instead of being imprisoned. (Article 125)

Foreigners who "attempt against national sovereignty or security" will be deported. (Article 126)

Mexicans who help illegal aliens enter the country are themselves considered criminals under the law:

A Mexican who marries a foreigner with the sole objective of helping the foreigner live in the country is subject to up to five years in prison. (Article 127)

Shipping and airline companies that bring undocumented foreigners into Mexico will be fined. (Article 132)
www.citizensforaconstitutionalrepublic.com...

So you see that Mexico encourages illegal immigration to the USA but does highly discourages any foreigners coming into their country. Hypocracy at its best.

This just says it all.

Sure, "anchor babies' bankrupted the state - right.

You let these people come in, and work for nothing, and THAT"S why they are here -- because Industry is making money on them cheap -- no health care, no rights, no problems.

But the Industry doesn't provide a DECENT paying job to a Citizen, and they don't pay taxes -- which, if these were American citizens, would be paying for the CITIZEN's non-anchor babies. But hey, it's so much easier to forget why they are here and blame people looking for opportunity. I know who will sell you the rocks to take out your frustration -- the same industries that employed them.

Perhaps we can FOLLOW THE MONEY and stop being so stupid. Companies like ENRON (and that's just ONE that was caught), were bilking the public by raising costs on over-expensive suppliers and then reaping the rewards behind the scenes.

And to "cut costs" after NOT raising taxes on those that benefitted from California's massive wealth, well, all those things that help the poor and provide a safety net are things that MAKE MORE MONEY than they cost.

We don't cut the military budgets. How does bombing a country at a Million $ a minute help US in the future? If you don't educate kids, and keep them healthy -- what will they be in the future? A burden. Every single time.

So now we are in a crisis and going to do EXACTLY all the stuff that caused it, over and over again.

I could easily be fixed -- but nobody believes in FDR's reforms any more -- all the Kleptocrats TOLD US, that all those Social Programs COST TOO MUCH. So, whatever, enjoy those tax breaks if you don't have a job.

reply to post by CaptChaos


So why don't you move to Mexico if you think they are doing it "right?"

The country that has that "if you are useful" clause for immigration, is the country that is outsourcing some of it's jobs to China, and is OK with it's citizens dying to do food processing for Tyson foods here in the USA.

I used to think that Mexico was the perfect haven for capitalism and the Libertarian mentality of no regulations or interference with the making of profit -- but recently, I realized, it's Haiti. Nobody is forcing business to pay minimum wage or more than someone is worth... and apparently, that number comes out to about $.27 an hour -- or $.28 if you draw cartoons for Disney.

And since you aren't WASTING all that evil tax money on infrastructure, and allowing business to provide so much -- when there is an earth quake -- people crushed by houses aren't worth ANYTHING. With all that charity and international aide from caring people around the world --- corporations can rebuild all the stuff they need to HELP the people help them -- and go right back to making sure nobody votes in anything but a corporate puppet.

Next time there is an Earthquake -- more bleeding hearts will INVEST again.

I really don't know why people who love these kind of "screw the useless people" laws don't just go to these countries that don't coddle lazy people. Haiti or Mexico would love to have you.

reply to post by Armour For Victor


I don't think we need to punish illegal immigrants anymore than sending them back to their countries of origin.

It is the employers who should be punished, with heavy fines, and prison times for those who abused their illegal employees, which happens fairly often.

I also have noticed how many immigrants earn wealth off of the backs of their fellow immigrants. It is the illegals who are most likely to be abusive of their fellow immigrants.

They also tend to be very discriminating. They hire only people from their countries of origin, unless pressured to hire others.

You are young, ambitious, after twenty years of being abused by a system that is enable to become more and more abusive because of illegal immigration, lets us then see how optimistic you are.

After you have given a couple of decades to some company, and suddenly find yourself tossed out and replaced by someone willing to take much less money, because they are desperate. Then you will find that you are unable to find a job that pays nearly as much as you had been working at, and soon you will be taking a job with a large pay cut, and replacing some other poor sap.

Then yo can watch your children struggle in a society from which all opportunity has been sucked.

I see this cycle all around me.

reply to post by Night Star


I agree with you 100%
It has to start from the inside to get the outside fix.
If we cant solve our own issues how will we solve someone elses.
Hope the best for you! I live on my own, im in debt with Credit cards and now with school loans. I have two jobs, but one thing I can thank for staying afloat is never stop working, and always take every opportunity.
Every little help counts!


Peace!

reply to post by poet1b


Your correct, the employers should be the first to be punished, I agree 100% Its true I am young and somehow gullible maybe.
One thing that my parents taught me though is never give up, fight for what you want and when you work, work with a purpose. When I work, I dont complain about doing someone elses job or get upset if i have to put more hours or stay late or get pay cutts or work double. I dont get mad if i get moved around. Why? Because it shows my employer im willing to do what it takes to keep my job, and I promise you this on my life, no immigrant from what ever country you choose from will take my job. I will out perform him/she in any way too keep my job. Thats my work ethic and I thank my parents for that. Like ive said ive been working since the age of 12, not nearly as young as other people I know. And when I have children, they will learn the same ethics i have been taught and they will learn the struggle but they will also learn to survive. Its simple work at what you want and you will get it. Show lack of interest and you will fail.

Peace!

[edit on 29-1-2010 by Armour For Victor]

[edit on 29-1-2010 by Armour For Victor]

reply to post by Armour For Victor


Hmm, so you don't intend to bargain for the most money you can get for your hard work?

If you are so ambitious, then you should make sure you are adequately compensated for your efforts.

Better yet, start your own business, and work for yourself.

You must continually fight to maintain your liberty.

This is what has made the U.S. such a successful nation, we demand that we get out of the system what we put into the system.

Yes, work hard, but make sure you get properly compensated for your hard work. Otherwise your employer will not respect, and have no problem with kicking you to the curb should you screw up.

This is the biggest problem with illegal immigration, the illegals are unable to fight for just compensation, and through them, the unscrupulous are able to take advantage of everyone.

When you let someone take advantage of you, you let them take advantage of everyone who loves and cares about you, and so you let them take advantage of the people you love.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by Armour For Victor

 

Hmm, so you don't intend to bargain for the most money you can get for your hard work?

If you are so ambitious, then you should make sure you are adequately compensated for your efforts.

Better yet, start your own business, and work for yourself.

You must continually fight to maintain your liberty.

This is what has made the U.S. such a successful nation, we demand that we get out of the system what we put into the system.

Yes, work hard, but make sure you get properly compensated for your hard work. Otherwise your employer will not respect, and have no problem with kicking you to the curb should you screw up.

This is the biggest problem with illegal immigration, the illegals are unable to fight for just compensation, and through them, the unscrupulous are able to take advantage of everyone.

When you let someone take advantage of you, you let them take advantage of everyone who loves and cares about you, and so you let them take advantage of the people you love.

I didnt force the employer to give me the job, he felt i was qualified so they gave it to me, so im gratefull i have a job, because most people dont and not just in this country. I have family in Mexico who work 3 jobs, she has two children, again she works 3 jobs and she gets less income at the end of the month than I do. Im single with no kids. So yes im gratefull to have this job, thats the problem, people expect to get compensated for working extra hours or for putting in more work. Thats the ideology of greed, ask for more do less. Thats selfish. When i know that other people have nothing and I have something then I understand that greed has no place. Im not gonna make demands over some extra work that wont kill you, because I want to be compensated. In my eyes, thats ridiculous.
If you understand anything about Mexican or Hispanic culture is that we dont take nothing for granted and we dont take crap from anyone. So believe me when I tell you that I don't let anyone take advantage of me, not even my own parents, as sad as that may be its true. We value our family lives more than our own, which is why most make the journey from 3rd world countries into this suppose great nation just so that others can have food on the table and a roof over their heads, some Americans take everything for granted and demand more service.

Now im not saying that all Americans are like this and that Americans dont also have the same values, its just that it to the immigrants it shows a bit brighter.

I will always fight to maintain my liberty, until I die.
And yes if I could I would start my own buisness but its not just gonna fly on my lap, I have to work for it.

Im adequately compensated for my efforts when Im able to feed myself, put a roof on my head and clothes on my back, I dont need nor want anything else. If in the process im able to get a better home, a nicer car, than I only have myself to thank for that.

I dont care for money as much as others do, i dont allow greed to flow through my viens im gratefull for what little I may have, because I understand that others arnt so lucky. I dont just work for my benifit I work for the benifit of others aswell.

Peace!

[edit on 29-1-2010 by Armour For Victor]

[edit on 29-1-2010 by Armour For Victor]

Originally posted by sapien82
reply to post by WeAreAWAKE

 

I can understand peoples anger at giving support to immigrants , but would you rather they die in the country they came from or get help in your country with your taxes !
[edit on 27-1-2010 by sapien82]

Well...uhhhh....first off...my post was sarcastic. Sorry you missed that. But the real interesting thing was your question quoted above.

I guess this is going to sound quite evil...but...YES! I would rather have them die in their own country than come here and live off our taxes.

Why? Well...I am not responsible (and couldn't be if I wanted) for the rest of the people in this world. I help neighbors, I help strangers, I have even helped criminals. But...I have no interest in someone breaking into my house to take what is mine, and then give them what they came to take. Why? Because then all the others will come and break into my house, expecting the same.

You see...in addition to my opinion, the fact is that the US can't support every poor, down-on-their-luck, person in the world (maybe not even in the country) without going bankrupt. The good that the US does in the world is directly related to what the US can afford to do. If the US can't afford to do anything because all these people take what is ours...how the hell can we help anyone when there is an earthquake, etc.? Quite simply...the death of America would cause many more to die because of what we couldn't do...than the number I would "let die".

So...now that I have said that...I guess if you don't support keeping illegals out of the US...you aid condemning even more of the world to death.

SAVE THE WORLD...SECURE OUR BORDERS!!!!

When you understand what the real problem is you can start to look for a solution. The problem is not illegal aliens.

In the search for bigger profits and competition, corporations and businesses will try to drive down wages. If you were able to seal the borders and send illegals back, we would soon find Chinese being packed like sardines into shipping containers.

Making a resident illegal creates a worker that can be taken advantage of. A modern day slave. If my competitor is using them, then I soon am forced to use them. This creates a downward spiral. Allow them all to come and give them a pathway to citizenship. You can allow exceptions for felons and diseased. If I am an employer why would I hire someone when I do not benefit and the person can not even speak the language?

Any person from North or South America should be allowed to freely immigrate to any country, especially people with indigenous blood. When you take away the labels of legal and illegal you end slavery and allow the working man to compete.