The Truth About Gun Control

Originally posted by Evolutionairy
Guns kill, so no guns would be my most favourit. But gouverment can't always be trusted, so i kind of agree. In my country, the Netherlands, there's no threath. But who knows..

I find this interesting. Could you give us some idea
of the cultural diversity of the Netherlands?

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


Nicely done. My point was more or less to point out that some places have actually somehow developed a society where people generally don't get into other peoples business as a matter of social principle.

It just seems to work in my own observation.

Originally posted by bigfoot1212

and thomas jefferson said something along the lines that every 100 years or so we need to rise up and otherthrow the gov't to show them who is actually the boss of the country-


[edit on 12-1-2010 by bigfoot1212]

great quote, but I believe jefferson said every 20 years. It's my belief that the sole purspose of the 2nd amendment is to defend against our own gov't just as the forefathers did to the gov't of their time.

Originally posted by commdogg
reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux

 

Nicely done. My point was more or less to point out that some places have actually somehow developed a society where people generally don't get into other peoples business as a matter of social principle.

It just seems to work in my own observation.

And what a great principle it is, isn't it? To live and let live without intrusion or disregard for others, is indeed a principle and one we are all better off for recognizing. Your point is well taken and appreciated.

reply to post by Uzamaki


Thanks for the support Uzamaki.
The more understanding an training in gun ownership the better.
The NRA and other organizations are dedicated to these causes.
Stopping by here helps. Pro or con.

reply to post by countercounterculture


The keyword is intruder...I didn't read the entire article, I found too many spins in the claims of those reporting the news. Maybe I missed the point?

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


People are quick to forget guys like Thomas Paine, Thomas Jefferson, and James Madison. They thought long and hard before they put pen to paper and authored something for posterity.

It makes me wonder what happens up there today, where 13,000 page bills get authored, amended, voted, and signed as law in a matter of months and no one has apparently read it.

Knee jerk political moves eventually toppled Rome too. Oh well, cyclic history is just the way it is isn't it?

Originally posted by commdogg
reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux

 

People are quick to forget guys like Thomas Paine, Thomas Jefferson, and James Madison. They thought long and hard before they put pen to paper and authored something for posterity.

It makes me wonder what happens up there today, where 13,000 page bills get authored, amended, voted, and signed as law in a matter of months and no one has apparently read it.

Knee jerk political moves eventually toppled Rome too. Oh well, cyclic history is just the way it is isn't it?

Perhaps, but anything cyclical is part of a system and all systems tend towards entropy. There is also the truism that cycles can be broken. When We the People will endeavor to break this insane cycle is another question, but threads like this and others, gives me hope.

After the 1959 success of the communist revolution in Cuba, gun control was immediately established as a central government policy. From 1959 to today, no one knows how many have been killed or imprisoned due to the inability to defend themselves.

1 My grandfather on my fathers side. Shot to death.

2 My grandfather on my mothers side. Imprisoned for 11 years, no evidence-just accusation.

So far I count two...Parents didn't escape that horrible place for no reason.

[edit on 13-1-2010 by projectvxn]

Does any of this make sense?
from
Outside the Beltway.

Dog Bites Man: Gun Crimes Down In Michigan Since Passage Of CCW Law
Dodd | Tuesday, January 8, 2008

Michigan sees fewer gun deaths — with more permits (Detroit Free Press):
Six years after new rules made it much easier to get a license to carry concealed weapons, the number of Michiganders legally packing heat has increased more than six-fold.

But dire predictions about increased violence and bloodshed have largely gone unfulfilled, according to law enforcement officials and, to the extent they can be measured, crime statistics.

The incidence of violent crime in Michigan in the six years since the law went into effect has been, on average, below the rate of the previous six years. The overall incidence of death from firearms, including suicide and accidents, also has declined.

Michigan mirrors the experience of pretty much every state that’s liberalized its concealed carry laws: Hyberbolic predictions of the streets running red with blood before, reductions in violent crime after. With each new state that goes through this process, the former become more difficult to sustain and the latter harder to ignore (though some, of course, still do).

About the Author: Dodd, who used to run a blog named ipse dixit, is an attorney, a veteran of the United States Navy, and a fairly good poker player. He can kill a mime using only his thumb.

He joined the staff at OTB in May 2007.

reply to post by projectvxn


projectyxn
I know it must be difficult just to share something like that.
My wishes for you healing.
The US has been in a fight to keeps it's guns since our Civil War.
When the south surrendered at Appomattox Grant as an American
at least allowed the defeated officers to keep there sidearms.
the best Donny

What a biased piece of garbage, theyre talking about gun BANS and trying to connect it to limitations in the US.

Just look at how well society works in the US... highest firearms deaths now imagine if everyone has an auto AR15, suddenly its already escalated, bigger guns means bigger balls to use them in smaller situation.

Look at Canada and Scandinavia - we have heavy restrictions and little crime. Before you wholly legalise firearms whose only design is to kill, maybe you should fix your society and poverty first.

When the OS of 9-11 first started to be challenged, I began slowly acquiring my guns.
Now, I have everything in a basic collection for hunting and personal protection. Even have basic re-loading equipment.
If 9-11 had not occured, I would be a gun proponent still, but not have purchased any.

Originally posted by Ridhya
What a biased piece of garbage, theyre talking about gun BANS and trying to connect it to limitations in the US.

Just look at how well society works in the US... highest firearms deaths now imagine if everyone has an auto AR15, suddenly its already escalated, bigger guns means bigger balls to use them in smaller situation.

Look at Canada and Scandinavia - we have heavy restrictions and little crime. Before you wholly legalise firearms whose only design is to kill, maybe you should fix your society and poverty first.

I fell out of my chair with this guys post! Thanks for the laugh! When did Scandinavia become a country?

Originally posted by Granite
When the OS of 9-11 first started to be challenged, I began slowly acquiring my guns.
Now, I have everything in a basic collection for hunting and personal protection. Even have basic re-loading equipment.
If 9-11 had not occured, I would be a gun proponent still, but not have purchased any.

Unfortunatlly 911 has spread a lot of fear through the country.
The DC elite came running behind the Blue Wall (That's what Jefferson called the Blue Ridge Mountains) right after the attacks and drove the real estate prices sky high. The only thing more scarry than the attacks is the OS.
be safe and watch that muzzle.

Originally posted by SkippyDan Groundchaser

Originally posted by Ridhya
What a biased piece of garbage, theyre talking about gun BANS and trying to connect it to limitations in the US.

Just look at how well society works in the US... highest firearms deaths now imagine if everyone has an auto AR15, suddenly its already escalated, bigger guns means bigger balls to use them in smaller situation.

Look at Canada and Scandinavia - we have heavy restrictions and little crime. Before you wholly legalise firearms whose only design is to kill, maybe you should fix your society and poverty first.

I fell out of my chair with this guys post! Thanks for the laugh! When did Scandinavia become a country?

SSSSSSHHhesh!! We all prended there was no post.

reply to post by Ridhya


AR 15 rifles are not auto weapons.

Rights aren't about bias, rights are about choice. I choose to own and maintain an AR. You don't have to, but you don't have the right to tell me what I candefend myself with. As self defense is a natural right.

Originally posted by countercounterculture
Gun Control Advocate Shoots Intruder

Title speaks for itself..

Hypocracy anyone?

[edit on 13/1/10 by countercounterculture]

Hypocrisy is taking an isolated incident and applying it to everyone. Cars are far more dangerous, I don't see an outcry to ban cars? Hypocrisy, you tell me?

I do however wish those who are fanatical about guns would stop giving the other side ammunition with their rants and threats. If I ever have to pull a trigger to protect me or my family, it will be one of the saddest days of my life. Not being irrational however, I know that by the time the Police arrive I'd be already dead. The Police investigate crime, they can not arrive soon enough to prevent it. It does not take a genius to see that.

It is also common sense to know that disarming citizens is all about control and nothing to do with safety. Criminals will have no problem at all obtaining guns.

Even taking their guns won't work. A child could create a weapon that would kill.

I wonder how many victims a year just stand there while they are killed or maimed or watch their loved ones killed or maimed because they did not have protection and wrongly thought the Police would arrive in time? Many I'm sure.

Unfortunately those who would control us have lots of little irrational slaves to carry their message for them. They have made some so afraid of guns, which are nothing more than a tool and not more dangerous than many other tools, that they start acting as if a gun could self-animate and pull its own trigger. It never was the guns. It has always been the person holding the gun. Irrational fear, fertilized by a constant mantra of propaganda is also a powerful tool to control people. You can be sure the loudest leaders of the anti-gun advocates own guns themselves.

Ask any Law Enforcement person should ordinary law abiding citizens have guns in private and they will tell you yes. I know, I have. One looked at me and laughed, then he said make sure it's not a worthless 9mm, buy a real gun and shoot to kill or don't pull the trigger. He recommended a shotgun for home protection and I agree.

Originally posted by Ridhya
What a biased piece of garbage, theyre talking about gun BANS and trying to connect it to limitations in the US.

Just look at how well society works in the US... highest firearms deaths now imagine if everyone has an auto AR15, suddenly its already escalated, bigger guns means bigger balls to use them in smaller situation.

Look at Canada and Scandinavia - we have heavy restrictions and little crime. Before you wholly legalise firearms whose only design is to kill, maybe you should fix your society and poverty first.

Interesting. I've visited Canada often and seen hunting rifles in peoples homes. As a person passing through I can even carry guns and if needed use them for Bear protection. A simple letter to a Consulate and a background check and a permit is issued. You don't really know your laws it would seem.

Do you honestly think a hunting rifle is any different or less dangerous than a rifle made up to look like a military weapon for people who think they look cool? I use a bolt action weapon and can hit inside a hand-spread at over 300 yards reliably.

Of course a country with a smaller, more rural population has less crime. I'd like to see the stats from your large cities. The small town I lived in growing up (population 7,000) had its first murder in its entire history when I was a kid. New family that moved there from Chicago and had only lived there for a few weeks. Turned out the Husband who shot the Wife had a long criminal history. I met them the day before it happened. They moved in a house in my neighborhood. Everyone in that town had guns and hunted. We had no crime to speak of beyond the occasional theft. A known criminal full of booze was the cause of that event, not the gun.

Guns do kill, in that you are right. Criminals have no problem getting them here or in your country. Don't live with your head in a paper bag. If a home invader breaks into your house with the intent to kill you, do you think they will wait for the Mounties to arrive first?

There are bad people and bad governments in this world and only YOU can protect yourself from them. If you are vocal about your not having any way to protect yourself, your house will be the first choice of any home invader.

As to the poverty crap. Like I said I've been through Canada more than once. I know about the poverty in the small isolated towns. The stores selling commodities to tourists. People on the dole sharing a one room apartment with someone they don't even know. Stores with very little on the shelves. The horrible treatment the Aboriginals get. Perhaps you have not seen much of your own country?

It is impossible to even tell when you have left the US and entered Canada if not for the border and different currency. We are all alike. It is the governments and politicians that keep us divided with propaganda. They want to control you by making you hate others based on lies.

Originally posted by Ridhya
What a biased piece of garbage, theyre talking about gun BANS and trying to connect it to limitations in the US.

Just look at how well society works in the US... highest firearms deaths now imagine if everyone has an auto AR15, suddenly its already escalated, bigger guns means bigger balls to use them in smaller situation.

Look at Canada and Scandinavia - we have heavy restrictions and little crime. Before you wholly legalise firearms whose only design is to kill, maybe you should fix your society and poverty first.

A simple Google search yielded these results, beginning with the crime rate in Vancouver:

Wikipedia reports:

"As of 2008, Vancouver had the seventh highest crime rate, dropping 3 spots since 2005, among Canada's 27 census metropolitan areas."

An article from The Daily dated Thursday, July 20th 2006 reports:

"Canada's national crime rate, based on incidents reported to police, fell 5% last year — despite increases in serious crimes such as homicide, attempted murder, serious assaults and robbery. Declines in non-violent offences such as counterfeiting, break-ins and auto thefts accounted for most of the decline in the crime rate, which fell in every province and territory...The homicide rate increased 4% to the highest level in almost a decade."

A report written by Dave Park, assistant managing director and chief economist for the Vancouver Board of Trade reported that in comparison with other developed countries, crime rates in Canada are relatively high and the U.N. crime victims survey has placed Canada in the high risk group for violent contact crimes, worse than the United States!

That same report goes on to state that according to criminal victimization surveys, between 1999 and 2004, violent crime in the U.S. declined by 1/3 while in Canada it stayed virtually the same. That report goes on to claim that in Canada only about 1/3 of crimes are actually reported to police, which would mean 2/3 go unaccounted for, which might give the impression of a lowered crime rate that actually doesn't exist.

The report also states that in 2004 there were more than 2.7 million violent crimes, which inflicted over 650,000 physical injuries.

And speaking of fixing "our" poverty first, here's what this same report has to say about Vancouver's poverty; The homeless situation has been worsening as has been the resources available to deal with such situations.

These statistics and figures are just for Vancouver alone which is just one of the 27 metropolitan areas in Canada. No doubt a thorough research would yield more revealing facts and truths about the crime rate in Canada, but who am I to quote people who have actually done studies on the matter? Better to take the word of an angry hoser, who will just declare all of this more propaganda, eh?