reply to post by Ridhya
I appreciate your opinions and encourage you greatly to continue espousing whenever you feel compelled to do so. However, it is merely opinions you
are espousing and you don't seem compelled to back them up with many facts. So, before I begin, once again, listing the statistics, facts and
figures, offered by various internet sources, I would first like to speak to the irony of some of your opinions.
First, you say you want armed citizens you just don't want Rambo's, which is fair enough, but I can't help see the irony in such a statement given
your avatar. Is that not a gun on the snowmobile being ridden by a blood drenched man with a maniacal smile in front of a corpse? I'm just
Secondly, you seem to want to make a distinction between gun RESTRICTIONS and BANS, as if a ban is not a restriction. Further, you continue to bring
up the drug issue. Let's first be clear here, I am in no way advocating recreational drug use, however, your continued insistence on framing the
violence perpetuated by recreational drug pushers as a problem with drug use greatly over simplifies the problem and misses the point.
Pharmaceuticals rely almost solely upon drugs as a method of making a profit, yet we don't read much about corporate executives, or even low level
employees of these pharmaceuticals gunning each other down. Why? Because they tend to sue their competitors in a court of law, relying upon tort law
rather than the law of the jungle. Herein lies the difference between "free markets" and "black markets". Of course, when you have "black
markets" it is hard to imagine how one can call the open market a "free market" with a straight face.
The violence related to recreational drug use has far less to do with the actual use of drugs than it does the brutal strategies of black marketeers.
While you are entitled to your opinion and you can praise the so called "war on drugs" all you want and do your best to ascribe some sort of saintly
behavior upon it, those who cherish freedom, and understand that the actual use of drugs as recreation seems to harm no one other than the one using
the drug itself, and given that sugar, caffeine, and even foods rich in saturated fats, can be just as harmful as many recreational drugs, it is an
arbitrary and capricious prohibition act, and given that this act of prohibition has incarcerated so many people in the U.S., a land that, at least
used to, prides itself as being "the freest country in the world", the prohibitions are indeed evil.
With that in mind, let me move on to the statistics, facts and figures and begin with those provide by an organization known as Defending Justice.
The figures come from a Google doc that has relied upon Defending Justice's findings. The first set of figures this organization offers are those
that illustrate that the U.S. has most recently become the country with the most people incarcerated and the highest incarceration rate of any country
in the world!
1.) During 2002, the U.S. prison population exceeded 2 million people for the first time in history.
2.) The U.S. has the highest rate of incarceration at 726 per 100,000 people.
3.) The second highest are Russia, Belarus, and Bermuda all with a rate of 532 prisoners per 100,000 people.
4.) The third is Palau with 523 prisoners per 100,000 people.
5.) Western European nations have much lower rates, with England and Wales at 142, Germany at 96, and France at 91 per 100,000 people.
6.) Many non Western nations also have significantly lower rates, with Cuba at 190 prisoners per 100,000 people, China with 118 and India with 29.
7.) More than three-fifths of the worlds nations have incarceration rates below 150 per 100,000 people.
8.) The current rate of incarceration in the U.S. is higher than the Soviet Union's in 1979, which had an incarceration rate of 660 people per
These figures alone should put into perspective why many people in the U.S. are comparing the current situation to the HOLOCAUST and PURGES, and you
can call it sick if you want, further figures will reveal that this outrageous rate of incarceration in the U.S. has nothing to do with violent crime,
nor theft, rape or any other real crime, but has everything to do with this stupid "war on drugs."
The Google doc reporting figures found by Defending Justice.org goes on to state that compared to other industrialized nations, the U.S. has similar
rates of victimization. In fact, this report claims that in many areas many Americans are at less of a risk of victimization than their counterparts
in other nations. Thus, it can be concluded, that while the U.S. incarcerates much more people than their counterparts in other industrialized
nations, this incarceration rate has to be something other than from crimes of victimization.
While the report concedes that the U.S. does have a homicide rate four times higher than most Western European nations and crime rates in general did
increase through the 1960's and '70's, the crime rate alone can not explain the six-fold increase in the past three decades. In fact, one study
showed that the increase in crime only explained 12% of the increase in incarceration, while changes in sentencing and drug policies accounted for the
Not just the sentencing laws in terms of drug policies, but even burglars will serve an average of about 16 months in prison compared to the five
months in Canada, and seven months in England and Wales. In both England and Wales, it is only about 12% of those incarcerated, compared to the 41%
in the U.S. that will serve sentences of 10 years or more. Even more revealing are the figures for drug sentences where only 6% of prisoners in
England and Wales will serve a sentence of 10 years or more compared to the 27% in the U.S.
Germany has a much lower incarceration rate with sentences averaging 1 year or more, for those convicted of all major crimes with the exception of
willful homicide. In terms of the death penalty, there are currently 123 nations that rely upon it, but only the U.S and Iran will sentence juveniles
to death. Even such countries as China and Pakistan have ceased this senseless behavior while the U.S. has executed 22 juveniles since 1973.
While you urge me to look to Japan as a model in considering gun restrictions, even though your claim is that Japan has "zero tolerance" for guns,
there is indeed a disparity in homicide rates between the two nations. According to Nationmaster.com the U.S. comes in at number 24 for homicide
rates with 0.042802 per 1000 people, and Japan comes in at number 60 with 0.00499933 per 1000 people, it is interesting to note that Switzerland comes
in at number 56 only four above Japan with 0.00921351 homicides per 1000 people.
That Switzerland, thoroughly discussed in this thread for its obvious endorsement of individual gun ownership has very similar homicide rates as Japan
should make clear that your own assertions that it is individual gun ownership and less restrictions of it, that make Japan less homicidal than those
nations who abhor restrictions seem rather baseless and only just high handed rhetoric.