Dutch Butterfly Crop Circle Mystery 2010: New Footage.

reply to post by Sol12


sol let me know if you managed to get any of what i wrote

reply to post by FOXMULDER147

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Originally posted by FOXMULDER147

"The Dutch Butterfly (also known as "Atlas") was the work
of well-known crop circle maker and artist, Remko Delfgaauw.
Check out his official website for examples of his work"

"Yes that's right, Remko Delfgaauw has created his own fake design company,
a fake website, and has been interviewed by fake magazines and fake TV programmes."

Fox,

Amazing how you choose to ignore the facts
that have so far been discussed at this thread.

As far as the Netherlands and the rest of the world are concerned,
Remko Delfgaauw is not a well-known artist.

His name is only circulating at fringe boards and among pseudo-skeptics.

Mr Delfgaauw is an ordinary businessman, not an artist,
he sells electronics equipment to petrol stations like Shell, BP and Total Fina:

beverinnovations.com...

"xld-sign" is indeed a fake company.

There exists no record of "xld-sign" at any chamber of commerce.

One of their 'associates', Manfred Koeleman, even mentioned this
in public while retracting the "land-owner/land-art" rumour.

www.niburu.nl...

"xld-sign" has no contact information posted at their website,
there is no phone-number available, they do not have an office,
no address information is available.

Mr Delfgaauw appears in the 6 minutes BNN "movie" on Dutch national TV
but his non-existent 'company' "xld-sign" is never mentioned during the broadcast,
he is not introduced with his actual name, instead as "Ron".

Regarding the alleged "project atlas", "xld-sign" has failed
every business opportunity, the PR aspect of it has been dramatic,
other than the ''project" being briefly mentioned at the "xld-sign" website
there is not a shred of evidence/proof available this project ever existed.

Instead of taking "xld-sign" to the next level Mr Delfgaauw
has meanwhile resigned from being a "crop circle artist".

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[edit on 20-6-2010 by Sol12]

reply to post by Julie Washington

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Hi Julie,

Regarding the "land-owner/land-art/anniversary" rumour.

Originally posted by Julie Washington

"If the xld company had been hired to create this CC for the dutch government's
200 year annivesary (which is not on their website),
I would consider this to be a PR program."

First of all, this rumour related to the 200th year anniversary of the land-owner,
a cooperation that was founded in 1809, they celebrated this last year and
some land-art project was part of this but they have never stated to have
anything to do with the creation of the Butterfly CC.

The Butterfly CC was harvested long before the day of the celebration,
a one-day/one-time public event, and the small-scale land-art project
that was part of the anniversary was finished, as planned, in October 2009,
about two months after the Butterfly CC was harvested.

More info:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by Julie Washington

Now if it was part of a PR program - why is everyone distancing themselves from it,
especially since it garnered so much attention. It would have been a brilliant plan.
But no, no one wants any connection to it except xld. CC's have been created for
commercial publicity before - but no one is claiming this as a commercial event other than xld?

Pretty simple question don't you think?

The question you raise is pretty simple indeed and it has been answered
by Manfred Koeleman, one of the "xld-sign" associates, at fringe forum "Niburu.nl"
where he posted a "reaction from the designer":

Its explained in this post:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by Sol12

"Update regarding xldsign's unsubstantiated claim
about alleged involvement of land-owner."

The header says, "reaction of designer":

First of all, he makes it clear that xldsign is not
an officially registered company (yet?).

Regarding the "project":

He specifically states,

"The land-owner was not involved in this initiative."

"This is absolutely not a publicity stunt"

"There is no revenue, we paid for the expenses"

(What remains is a cryptic remark which says that the land-owner
was an "enthusiastic partner", BUT that this was (probably?) NOT related
to their 200th year anniversary, nor to any of their related planned
activities.)

www.niburu.nl...

So, from this "reaction of the designer" we learn that "xld-sign"
states this was not a commercial "initiative" neither a "publicity stunt"
nor was it related to the land-owner's anniversary.

Conclusion:

The story so far is that "xld-sign" has merely claimed to have created the Butterfly CC
while admitting there was no cause, no revenue, it was not a publicity stunt,
there were no other parties involved and they don't feel to share any
convincing evidence with the world to show/prove they actually made it.


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/a53a3d9591e4.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b46a7db30f02.jpg[/atsimg]

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[edit on 20-6-2010 by Sol12]

xld-sign are liars and scammers.

They have not fooled anyone that has 1/2 a brain.

reply to post by UfosExiZt

A yea mad? man made indeed....



are you blind as well as stupid?





[edit on 20-6-2010 by DCDAVECLARKE]

[edit on 20-6-2010 by DCDAVECLARKE]

So we can officially declare there is

NO PROOF

this was man made!


100% correct up to this point in this dimension and this time, so help me god!



Carry on!

Originally posted by watchZEITGEISTnow
So we can officially declare there is

NO PROOF

this was man made!


100% correct up to this point in this dimension and this time, so help me god!

Carry on!

We can officially declare that "Human Density" knows no bounds.


Here's the website of the guys responsible for this and other crop circle projects.

Carry on!


[edit on 21-6-2010 by draknoir2]

reply to post by draknoir2

Originally posted by watchZEITGEISTnow
xld-sign are liars and scammers.

They have not fooled anyone that has 1/2 a brain.

Originally posted by watchZEITGEISTnow
reply to post by draknoir2

 

Originally posted by watchZEITGEISTnow
xld-sign are liars and scammers.

They have not fooled anyone that has 1/2 a brain.

Apparently that have.

Watch this Documentry then tell if you think crop circles are man-made. Its 50 minutes long.
www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by draknoir2

Originally posted by watchZEITGEISTnow
reply to post by draknoir2

 

Originally posted by watchZEITGEISTnow
xld-sign are liars and scammers.

They have not fooled anyone that has 1/2 a brain.

Apparently that have.

yes quite obviously

Originally posted by SpaceJam
Watch this Documentry then tell if you think crop circles are man-made. Its 50 minutes long.
www.youtube.com...

Great doco thanks for posting

Hi Sol12. how are you my friend?
Interesting that this thread has popped up.

I know you have read my thoughts on this CC, but I would like to share it with others in this thread.

Here is a book published in 2008, the year before the Butterfly CC that was made, which was 07-08-09.
The Book is called Spontaneous Evolution: Our Positive Future and How To Get There From Here.
Here is the Cover, does it look familiar?
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/4b456e5613aa.jpg[/atsimg]
more info on the book. It has nothing to do with Aliens so some people may not like it.
www.youtube.com...

The cover of this Book has the Da Vinci Vitruvian man with what appears to be Mandelbrot set or fractal butterfly wings.

Here is the Da Vinci Vitruvian man and the Butterfly CC.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/ac1064ac1b43.jpg[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/5d39ace57d2b.jpg[/atsimg]

The Butterfly CC, like the Book I linked earlier, are about the evolution of man.
The Butterfly is iconic of transformation. The Butterfly is also linked to many myths and cultures. The greeks with Psyche the Goddess of the Soul, psyche originally meant butterfly( psyche, from where we get the term psychology), the Hopi and Mayan cultures as well as many other Native American cultures also have many myths regarding the Butterfly. I mention the Native american Cultures because Mayan and Hopi cultures are currently being UPDATED by new agers around the 2012 phenomena where many new age movements believe we will be making a transformation.


It is what many new agers call the next step in man and many sites use imagery to represent this, and that imagery is what?
The Butterfly gets a call up again. Many sites I have read mention Homo Luminous, Hopi and Mayan prophecy and incorporate butterfly imagery to describe the transformation into a higher evolved human. This Crop Circles is no different.

Many people believe we are on the cusp of an evolution.

Here we have these beliefs transformed by humans into a CC's.
Human beliefs, images and philosophies are all intertwined into this Butterfly CC. And it is beautiful.
But!
Everything about it is Human.

Everything about it is Human.
Human beliefs, images and philosophies are all intertwined into this Butterfly Crop Circle and these beliefs, images and philosophies all pre-existed before the butterfly crop circle.
There is nothing alien at all about that CC.

Also, those that argue that the footage is inconclusive of proof that humans did it or XLDesigns et al. You may be right, I accept that argument.
But what footage do you have that concludes that something non-humans did make it?

reply to post by atlasastro


Atlasastro,

Well...what a pleasant surprise. I actually liked your post.

The bottom line to all this is no one can provide 100% evidence that is is "man made" or that this is NOT "man-made".

There lies the great mystery and the search for the truth.

reply to post by draknoir2

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draknoir2,

Thank you for providing an interesting alternative
view-point to this discussion.


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/a09fff1b75cb.jpg[/atsimg]

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To be honest i do not understand the point of this thread..Can someone please explain to me?write me a mail or something? All i see is a video of humans making crop circles.

IF you didnt think humans could make that, hehe you need to go more outside. As a scientist working within the field of extraterrestrials i can inform you that crop circles are mostly done by extraterrestrials, BUT if humans get bored they might want to try it out themselves.

No seriously,write me back, the mystery here for me is the point of the thread.

[edit on 21-6-2010 by Archirvion]

reply to post by atlasastro

...

Hi Atlasastro

Yes, we know now you seem to give great importance to the synchronicity
relating to this book cover and what is depicted by the Butterfly CC.

What you haven't pointed out so far is how the author/publisher of this book
would be involved in the creation of the Butterfly CC?

There is no connection as far as I understand from the available facts so far.

If you have any facts to offer, besides pointing out to a resemblance,
that there is in fact a connection between the writer/publisher of this book
and the alleged "crop circle artists" supposedly responsible for the creation
of the Butterfly CC, feel free to add these facts here to our discussion.

The controversy surrounding the Butterfly CC is not merely restricted
to the question whether it would be man-made, yes or no.

No credible evidence is available to prove/show the Butterfly CC to be man-made.

The story so far is that "xld-sign" has merely claimed to have created the Butterfly CC
while admitting there was no cause, no revenue, it was not a publicity stunt,
there were no other parties involved and they don't feel to share any
convincing evidence with the world to show/prove they actually made it.

An army of anonymous posters is active on the web
posting links to the "xld-sign" website.

The 'established' CC community has supported and promoted the
as yet entirely unsubstantiated "xld-sign" claim right from the start,
continues to ignore the facts, and continues to insist this CC
has to be man-made for some unspecified reasons,
and keeps ignoring it into oblivion.

Dutch Mainstream Media got involved promoting an utterly dubious man-made
claim by broadcasting the 6 minute BNN video intended as if to show the 'making of'
the Butterfly CC, yet, the BNN broadcast merely suggests the 'making of',
in reality it is not showing the making of anything in particular.

So what could be a logical explanation for all the fuzz?

Any suggestions Atlasastro?


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/16997148125c.jpg[/atsimg]

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[edit on 21-6-2010 by Sol12]

reply to post by Julie Washington




WHAT, you mean all my other posts that you have read sucked.

Just joking, but your post is bit of a surprise Julie. Thank you, I think?



I guess the mystery is that some people think that they have ruled out the possible human origins of this circle by pointing out doubt in the claims by XLD, which is fine. But considering we have only ever documented Humans making CC's, this means that all we have doubts about is the claim by certain humans that they made this circle.

I all honesty, I don't find it mysterious that a group of artists would be vague about their activities, when the whole point of the art is in its meaning and not who created it.
I guess that is my personal opinion, as I have already agreed with Sol12 on the scant details XLD provide.

Thank you for replying Julie

Originally posted by Sol12
reply to post by atlasastro

 

...

Hi Atlasastro

Yes, we know now you seem to give great importance to the synchronicity
relating to this book cover and what is depicted by the Butterfly CC.

Hi Sol, thanks for the reply mate.
Yes, I often put great importance in tangible known elements that seem synchronistic with HUMAN philosophy, ideology and artistry in relation to the topic of Crop Circles, especially when I compare these tangible and known elements that seem synchronistic to HUMAN philosophy, ideology and artistry against the claim that these Crop Circles do not originate from humans.

I would expect that most other passionate participants in this topic would also place great importance on the fact that there is an incredible significance to Crop Circles and that it is synchronistic with human philosophy, ideology, imagery and artistry.

What you haven't pointed out so far is how the author/publisher of this book
would be involved in the creation of the Butterfly CC?

I don't have too, Sol12.
Do I have to point out every human that has drawn a circle or a complex geometric structure or interview experts in sacred geometry in order to show that they are involved in many other crop circles too?
My point is that the images in the butterfly CC are normal, general and known to humanity. They are topical and relevant to the imagery and meaning behind the CC. These give is information concerning who or what may have made the circle.

If the butterfly CC contains well known Human imagery or symbology that may also carry a philosophy or an ideology familiar to humans, then we can use this information to search for answers.
The butterfly CC has iconic human imagery in it. Would you consider that as a clue to its origins, because I would.

If you do not find this a constructive and significant way of discovering the truth, I would be appreciate it greatly if you would explain why not?

There is no connection as far as I understand from the available facts so far.

Perhaps this is simply a matter relating to what you understand, or what you are willing to consider in order to understand this CC.

If you have any facts to offer, besides pointing out to a resemblance,
that there is in fact a connection between the writer/publisher of this book
and the alleged "crop circle artists" supposedly responsible for the creation
of the Butterfly CC, feel free to add these facts here to our discussion.

Can you point out why the iconic human imagery and philosophy in the book( that is not isolated to this book but an example of a general presence and meaning in our human culture) that is not significant a factual connection to the possible origins of the CC. Considering that many people claim the CC is of mysterious origins? The entire CC imagery is familiar.
The CC imagery itself is excellent evidence, and should be considered. Especially given that the book is an example of a very familiar theme in human culture.
I don't see many people dismissing the imagery as evidence when they claim the CC is related to 2012 or Mayan prophecy, galactic alignments etc.

The controversy surrounding the Butterfly CC is not merely restricted
to the question whether it would be man-made, yes or no.

No credible evidence is available to prove/show the Butterfly CC to be man-made.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

The story so far is that "xld-sign" has merely claimed to have created the Butterfly CC
while admitting there was no cause, no revenue, it was not a publicity stunt,
there were no other parties involved and they don't feel to share any
convincing evidence with the world to show/prove they actually made it.

You forget to mention they have a long history of making circles Sol12.
As well as other earth art.
As I have said before, they have been consistent in their behavior regarding their art and the only reason they actually endeavored to claim they made this circle was because of the reaction to the circle on the web, with many CC sites making claims and assertions regarding the Butterfly CC and its meaning.

An army of anonymous posters is active on the web
posting links to the "xld-sign" website.

An Army?

The 'established' CC community has supported and promoted the
as yet entirely unsubstantiated "xld-sign" claim right from the start,
continues to ignore the facts, and continues to insist this CC
has to be man-made for some unspecified reasons,
and keeps ignoring it into oblivion.

Mate, to be fair, you guys can't even point out one circle that is not man made. You know this is true, which is why we are here discussing all the human evidence relating to the Butterfly CC.
There is no one element in relation to this CC that is not human in origin. Think about that Sol12.
As I have said before, this is all about humans. Think about that Bro.
This whole debate regarding the Butterfly CC is about humans who claimed they made a CC that has iconic human imagery and philosophy in it.

Dutch Mainstream Media got involved promoting an utterly dubious man-made
claim by broadcasting the 6 minute BNN video intended as if to show the 'making of'
the Butterfly CC, yet, the BNN broadcast merely suggests the 'making of',
in reality it is not showing the making of anything in particular.

It is funny that you are critical of a that video suggests that it was man made, because all you can do is suggest that XLD didn't make it. You can't prove it, can you.
You have only been given what you have Sol12.

All we can do is cast doubt on that claim. It is a doubt I accept, you know that.
But you also know that there is other evidence relating to the CC and the ariel photographer and a link to XLD, that we discussed on my other thread.

So what could be a logical explanation for all the fuzz?

Any suggestions Atlasastro?

MSM drama So12?
Any suggestions?
Yep.
We know humans make CC.
We know there are groups that make CC's.
We know these groups are vague and mysterious.
We know that this CC has iconic human imagery and philosophy in it.
We know a group that has made many CC over a 14 year history claim they made this CC.
We know their claim is vague and Mysterious.

Do you want to apply that logic?

Or should I be lazy and simply conclude that because I doubt XLD's claim then I can believe the Butterfly Crop Circle is not man made and that it must have been made by aliens?

Is that what you want me to do bro?

reply to post by atlasastro

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Originally posted by Atlasastro

All we can do is cast doubt on that claim.

Frankly Atlasastro,

All I do here is point out to the fact that there is no credible evidence
available that points out this CC would be made by "xld-sign".

No one else has made any claims to have created this CC.

It is not me who is casting doubt on a "man-made" claim,
it is those who refuse to provide evidence/facts to their claim
who are casting doubt to the legitimacy of their claim.

Originally posted by Atlasastro

"Is that what you want me to do bro?"

Feel free to interpret the available facts
as presented on this thread as you wish.

I have nothing to prove.

Those making claims have something to prove.


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/46a4c79d152a.jpg[/atsimg]

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