Want to know how primitive man would draw advanced technology he saw?

Originally posted by Phanthom
IMHO it's a way of paying tribute to souls they 1)just disembodied or 2)are going to (=hunt) [+ fortune in future hunts] a bit like saying grace before eating...

Now you're forgetting one thing... We have no proof whatsoever that Cro Magnon nor any other early Man was spiritual or religious. No proof at all.

Rather, we Homo sapiens project our penchant for spirituality onto other species — but there is no proof that Cro Magnon was honoring nature spirits. That's pure speculation.

If anything, I think Cro Magnon posted pictures of his kills the way we mount stuffed animal heads on our walls today. It's a trophy, nothing more.

Later, Man started cartooning on cave walls, showing sequences of action, and he even illustrated dialogue balloons BEFORE he even had written language — demonstrating the act of speech, but not the content of speech.

But, even given all this fanciful imagery, we have no proof that very early Man was particularly "spiritual"... And, no, the Neanderthal habit of burying corpses with flowers is not necessarily a spiritual ritual. More than likely, flowers were used to cover the stench of decay.

— Doc Velocity

reply to post by Doc Velocity


um... Cro magnun man... was man. It was the species that exterminated the Neanderthal. Cro magnum man is your typical Caucasian from Europe. I'm a cro magnum.

[edit on 10-1-2010 by Gorman91]


Also, look back the last page. You'll see your proof.

[edit on 10-1-2010 by Gorman91]

reply to post by Deaf Alien


On the Wandjina..

It is said of the Wandjina spirits of Western Australia (see above right) that they impressed their images in the caves before returning to the spirit realm. Every such image ‘belongs’ to one of the clans, and the stories, songs, rights and responsibilities associated with that image—such as ensuring its renewal through regular repainting—are handed down through the generations. This periodic renovation is a spiritual exercise, necessary for the maintenance of creation; should the ceremonies be neglected, it is believed, the world would regress to chaos.

Another imprint of Aboriginal sacred history can be found on the ritual implements known as churingas (above centre), sacred artefacts imaging both journey and story. When correctly interpreted, these symbolic maps guide initiates through the song cycles. The chanting of the tradition encoded on a churinga is important in that it conjures the Dreamtime; only when the connection to alcheringa is established can the present world be renewed.

In the Aboriginal worldview, every meaningful activity, event, or life process leaves behind a vibrational residue, a ‘seed power’ (jiva or guruwari) drawn from sources originally deposited in the earth by the alcheringa beings; thus, everything in the natural world is a mirror of the Dreamtime, the very surroundings vibrating with the echo of the original creative acts.

The disclosure of Aboriginal sacred history often takes several years, the individual becoming more aware of the import of the past with each progressive stage. They are initiated into the process of reliving the alcheringa, and as the revelation conserved in the myths becomes assimilated, present life becomes meaningful and sacred.

www.mythicmaps.net...



Here is two more links to some"Wandjina":

www.artsource.net.au...

www.crystalinks.com...

Personally I still think the "Wandjina" were ETs, but that is my opinion. There is some good and interesting reading about these "spirits"...

Originally posted by Gorman91
One of the oldest religious artifact is the fat pornographic lady, which was symbolizing human desire to worship wealth and good being.

No, that's our modern interpretation of the Venus-Earth-Mother-Goddess figure...

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/4f8282b1f337.jpg[/atsimg]

We in modern times decided that's what she is. But we actually have no idea what the Earth Mother symbolizes. Pure speculation. It could be a piece of pornography by which to masturbate, for all we know. We have no evidence that it is religious in nature.

— Doc Velocity

Originally posted by Gorman91
um... Cro magnun man... was man. It was the species that exterminated the Neanderthal. Cro magnum man is your typical Caucasian from Europe. I'm a cro magnum.

Not unless you're from France. Cro Magnon describes the area the fellow inhabited.

— Doc Velocity

reply to post by Doc Velocity


Yes we do have proof. Modern behavior began 50,000 years ago. Since then, sex has been a private thing between two, but also something to be worshiped. We are talking about early man here. Let's see, what do young juveniles do with sex? They worship it. What did every single civilization to ever be remembered do with sex pre-christian? They worshiped it. Thus, one can make a simple indirect observation. Humans act the same. In ancient times fatness was not gross, but a sign of wealth and power. Fat lady= power and desire. Humans worship what they desire. They are found in the same locations you'd find a statue of baal on or a picture of Jesus. Within the household/cave for all to see.

It is, in fact, a worshiping ceremonial idol.

further proof:

www.scientificamerican.com...

Want more proof? Humans were buried with their items at this time, as well as flowers and other things. Flowers represent life. Why bury life? Because a new one awaits.

Religion is as old as mankind.

reply to post by Doc Velocity


The SPECIES Cro magnum man is modern man.

[edit on 10-1-2010 by Gorman91]

Originally posted by Deaf Alien
reply to post by heyo

 

How about this?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/ee2a19a31d36.jpg[/atsimg]

I wonder why there is an orange ball around their heads;
Could it be a helmet? or an Aura?

The artwork above, for instance, was rendered with soots and powdered ores on the ceiling of a pitch black cave, probably illuminated by dim and flickering firelight. I would challenge any professional artist today to accomplish similar renderings on an overhead surface with the same pigments under identical lighting conditions, and do so from memory, with no example photos for reference.

Such primitive art represents nothing less than masterworks of perspective, proportion and anatomical detail, and they are in fact classified as such today.

Indeed, but I believe that professional artists today could certainly accomplish the same.

This is just one reason that I very seriously doubt the learned opinions of modern anthropologists who claim that early Man was incapable of accurately depicting advanced technology (such as UFOs) or otherworldly visitors. These learned scientists pretty much insist that rock paintings of flying saucers and bizarre humanoids are merely imaginative depictions of supernatural "nature spirits" or other such nonsense.

The cavemen who rendered these works were probably thousands of years away from such abstract concepts as supernatural "nature spirits" and religion. These primitive men were immersed in the natural world — the real world — and they rendered exactly what they saw, to the best of their considerable abilities.

It is also a big stretch however to assume that everything which was rendered was in fact intended as direct representation, as it is also known for certain that aboriginal artists, exactly as modern and classical artists also rendered symbolically as well.

My main concern is that the pictures of the supposed ancient astronauts (figures and things interpreted today as 'spacecraft') are in fact significantly more abstract and less specifically detailed than they ought to be for physical objects which were directly observed, for an artist who intended a realistic representation.

The odds are, if a caveman painted a picture of a flying disk, he had probably just seen a flying disk.

No: if they had seen a flying disc they would be able to paint a specific and detailed picture of it.

[edit on 11-1-2010 by mbkennel]

Originally posted by DjSharperimage

Originally posted by Deaf Alien
reply to post by heyo

 

How about this?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/ee2a19a31d36.jpg[/atsimg]

I wonder why there is an orange ball around their heads;
Could it be a helmet? or an Aura?

And if that is supposedly pictures of ETs rendered realistically---are ETs heads on a squat bust with no torso, arms or legs?

reply to post by Doc Velocity


Hey doc. I never saw that painting before. I like it, but I can't quite make out what it is exactly. It looks like a little guy with no arms is indeed watching a saucer or something taking off. Almost like the artist painted 3 ships to show 1ship in stages of liftoff. Either way it's new to me and I think it's a perfect example to show here. Thx

(The little guy appears to have a long penis and a tail too. Weird. Also like he has lines extending toward the craft. Amybe he's longing to be on it. Like they left whatever he is here on Earth. I hate to say it, but could he be a lizard guy?) Oh God don't tell anyone I said that. I really have never been a lizard believer.
It's just that the painting does appear kind of Alligaotor to me. It's an upright guy with tiny arms and a tail. Right?
[edit on 11-1-2010 by spinalremain]

[edit on 11-1-2010 by spinalremain]

reply to post by Gorman91


Thanks for the post. Fascinating stuff. I would encourage you to resist calling these aborigines "primitive", in many ways they are superior to so-called "modern man", particularly in areas of morality and spirituality.
A good friend of mine spent 2 years wandering with a band of aboriginals, some things she told me about them were absolutely amazing. These are people who are deeply connected to the earth in ways we can scarcely fathom. If that's being primitive we could all use more of it in us.

reply to post by mbkennel

My main concern is that the pictures of the supposed ancient astronauts (figures and things interpreted today as 'spacecraft') are in fact significantly more abstract and less specifically detailed than they ought to be for physical objects which were directly observed, for an artist who intended a realistic representation.

Not sure if your logic follows through. Are we to assume that only the earliest versions of da Vinci – skilled painters - were allowed to paint on the walls, thus capturing the everyday life of those distant days?

I’ve no idea if cavemen saw lights or discs in the sky or not. That we do see them today could suggest that they might have too.

And if you were one of our earliest ancestors and saw – for the sake of argument – something so out of the ordinary like this, even for the briefest of moments:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/1943917e2d42.jpg[/atsimg]

wouldn’t you then go on to represent it as best you could, like this:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b1e8c77965ae.jpg[/atsimg]

How would you include detail if there wasn’t any?

Edit to add:

Modern day "primitive" societies have attempted to replicate things seen in the sky:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/a973ca17115f.jpg[/atsimg]

It looks similar to a plane, doesn't it? Note the lack of detail.

This image comes from a Pacific island cargo-cult of the 1940's who saw American planes not only up close, but in the in the sky too and tried to replicate them to make the Americans come back when they left.

As we don't know the exact causation of the cave art imagery in question, is it not fair and logical to speculate that Human reaction to seemingly super-human sights was - and still is - to replicate them, almost in veneration?

[edit on 11-1-2010 by Beamish]

remember if you are an artist it is soley up to you to portray the object as you see fit !

They may not actually be realistic observations etched onto the walls but from memory of something fleeting like a flying disk travelling fast or hovering and moving its hard to remember the details other than a disc that flys !
you wouldnt see the details from the ground !

as with the animals the reason they are so detailed is because of the abundance of animals and the role they played in their lives !
So they had time to study the body and represent it perfectly or as best they could with the tools at their disposal!

Try to paint a flying saucer something you have never seen before and only for a moment in time say 10 seconds , enough to catch your eye and log it in your primative brain ! but certainly not long enough to get any good detail ! especially something you have never witnessed or are likely to witness again , yet it shocked you that much you just had to draw it for the rest of your clans history !

the same can be said for the figures , whether they are ghosts or ET , you certainly dont have time to study a ghost or an ET you would be scared #less of them !

So thats why there isnt that much detail compared to the animals , just my take

Originally posted by Namaste
reply to post by Phage

 

I think what the OP is saying is; maybe they drew those fantastical creatures because they literaly saw them.

Agreed. 1 wonders where are those creatures now.

[edit on 1/11/10 by Ophiuchus 13]

I like what you are saying OP.

The drawings say that when they want to they can be accurate depictions.

However what the drawings cannot say are the intent of the artist. What we may look at and say "spaceman" ancient man may say is something else entirely. Imagination can be as much at play as anything else when it comes to Humans.

Originally posted by Doc Velocity

Originally posted by Phanthom
IMHO it's a way of paying tribute to souls they 1)just disembodied or 2)are going to (=hunt) [+ fortune in future hunts] a bit like saying grace before eating...

Now you're forgetting one thing... We have no proof whatsoever that Cro Magnon nor any other early Man was spiritual or religious. No proof at all.

Rather, we Homo sapiens project our penchant for spirituality onto other species — but there is no proof that Cro Magnon was honoring nature spirits. That's pure speculation.

If anything, I think Cro Magnon posted pictures of his kills the way we mount stuffed animal heads on our walls today. It's a trophy, nothing more.

Later, Man started cartooning on cave walls, showing sequences of action, and he even illustrated dialogue balloons BEFORE he even had written language — demonstrating the act of speech, but not the content of speech.

But, even given all this fanciful imagery, we have no proof that very early Man was particularly "spiritual"... And, no, the Neanderthal habit of burying corpses with flowers is not necessarily a spiritual ritual. More than likely, flowers were used to cover the stench of decay.

— Doc Velocity [/quote

I think you sell short the perspective of primitive man. No there is no version I know of a " Cro Magnon Dresden Codex". But the flowers in the grave, and the grave it self are not indicitive by them selves of intelligence, to me this shows the capacity to think "out side the box" of their very harsh world. Digging a grave takes energy as calories, and time that could be spent doing more productive things... As you no doubt know, relatively modern humans would just take a body out in the woods, set it adrift on a river, etc. But some Cro Magnon peoples took the time and effort to digg a grave. Take a body far away from your camp, less difficult then digging a grave, and predators will spend more eating grandpa, less time going after you.

The flowers? You can put a body in the ground, and below a few feet, unless you have certain conditions, it won't smell. If on the surface, or just under it you need to really load up on the flowers, or something. Nothing I know of smells worse then a dead body. It's a smell now one forgets.

We can't know the motivations of primitive people, but we have proof of how primitive people respond to technology for the first time. The "cargo cults" of New Guenie (excuse spelling...) saw for the first time U.S. and Australian aircraft. These planes brought all sorts of nice stuff, such as food. When the planes left, the natives built wood and grass modles of the airplanes. They got used to having a 7-11 drop in every few days. They wanted them back...

The first stage of having spiritual views is to be able to think in the abstract There is no doub't in my mind the natives did indeed think in the abstract. Religion starts with fear or wishfull thinking. It's a way, then and in many ways now to make sense of what we don't understand

reply to post by jkrog08


Thank you for the links. I am sure you have noticed that most links are of ufos and aliens nature, making it difficult to find a neutral source.

I believe those are of aliens. As OP has stated, if the aboriginals drew detailed pictures of the ships recently, then who are we to say that those drawings of "spirits" are not aliens or those are just from imagination.

reply to post by Gorman91


Maybe they buried the dead with flowers for the same reason we use incense.

Dead bodies stink.

reply to post by DjSharperimage


Some new age people believe them to be auras.

It could be anything.

If we were to take the OP as evidence that the aboriginals have always drew exactly what they saw physically, then the wandjina pictures were exactly what they saw.

reply to post by mbkennel

are ETs heads on a squat bust with no torso, arms or legs?

If you look in the middle you'll see that the "alien" has chest and partial arms.

Perhaps it was so bright that it's difficult to see the figures? You'll see the light white painting all around those figures.