Do you honestly not think this is a nude image?

Originally posted by Zeptepi
reply to post by PunksNotDead

 

Same guy that flew kites in a thunderstorm with a wet cotten string and a metal key!

Post proof.

Start with some documentation from the period in question.

Thanks.

It has been recently questioned whether or not Franklin actually did perform this experiment; the question remains controversial.


www.websters-online-dictionary.org...

[edit on 9-1-2010 by Exuberant1]

reply to post by Exuberant1


This may not be definitive proof. as the source is suspect.
but there is some sound...even before Edison.

media.abovetopsecret.com...
You are correct , it is a possible myth.





[edit on 9-1-2010 by Zeptepi]

reply to post by Zeptepi

You do realize that the federal government has jurisdiction over all air travel over the USA.

First of all. I would be interested to hear under what authority that jurisdiction was established, certainly not under civil law. Secondly my comment wasn't about air travel it was about the ability to perform a strip search.

The same system that allows you to feel perfectly safe

I thought the whole point of these increased "measures" is because we are currently in grave danger. Your feelings of safety are not approved please refer back to your television box. It will let you know when you may feel safe again, until a new security breach is identified and then more measures will be necessary.

reply to post by Zeptepi

Go back and read the whole thread..that has been quoted about 10 times here already

And I have starred it every single time.

And just in case someone missed the quote let me provide once more:

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" - Benjamin Franklin

Originally posted by dereks

Originally posted by drwizardphd
Aside from the gross invasion of your privacy every time you want to fly somewhere?

you have the choice - if you think it is a gross invasion of privacy then dont fly

Its the posters like this one that have ruined ATS. What an utterly worthless waste of space some of the members on this site have become. 0% intellectual discussion, how quaint....

[edit on 9-1-2010 by dodgygeeza]

reply to post by harvib

First of all. I would be interested to hear under what authority that jurisdiction was established, certainly not under civil law.

US Code Title49 Cornell law

It is Civil law! US Code49

TITLE 49 > SUBTITLE VII > PART A > subpart i > CHAPTER 401 > § 40103Prev | Next § 40103. Sovereignty and use of airspace

(1) The United States Government has exclusive sovereignty of airspace of the United States.
(2) A citizen of the United States has a public right of transit through the navigable airspace. To further that right, the Secretary of Transportation shall consult with the Architectural and Transportation Barriers Compliance Board established under section 502 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973 (29 U.S.C. 792) before prescribing a regulation or issuing an order or procedure that will have a significant impact on the accessibility of commercial airports or commercial air transportation for handicapped individuals.

(b) Use of Airspace.—
(1) The Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration shall develop plans and policy for the use of the navigable airspace and assign by regulation or order the use of the airspace necessary to ensure the safety of aircraft and the efficient use of airspace. The Administrator may modify or revoke an assignment when required in the public interest.

(2) The Administrator shall prescribe air traffic regulations on the flight of aircraft (including regulations on safe altitudes) for—
(A) navigating, protecting, and identifying aircraft;
(B) protecting individuals and property on the ground;
(C) using the navigable airspace efficiently; and
(D) preventing collision between aircraft, between aircraft and land or water vehicles, and between aircraft and airborne objects.

(3) To establish security provisions that will encourage and allow maximum use of the navigable airspace by civil aircraft consistent with national security, the Administrator, in consultation with the Secretary of Defense, shall—
(A) establish areas in the airspace the Administrator decides are necessary in the interest of national defense; and
(B) by regulation or order, restrict or prohibit flight of civil aircraft that the Administrator cannot identify, locate, and control with available facilities in those areas.

(4) Notwithstanding the military exception in section 553 (a)(1) of title 5, subchapter II of chapter 5 of title 5 applies to a regulation prescribed under this subsection.
(c) Foreign Aircraft.— A foreign aircraft, not part of the armed forces of a foreign country, may be navigated in the United States as provided in section 41703 of this title.
(d) Aircraft of Armed Forces of Foreign Countries.— Aircraft of the armed forces of a foreign country may be navigated in the United States only when authorized by the Secretary of State.
(e) No Exclusive Rights at Certain Facilities.— A person does not have an exclusive right to use an air navigation facility on which Government money has been expended. However, providing services at an airport by only one fixed-based operator is not an exclusive right if—
(1) it is unreasonably costly, burdensome, or impractical for more than one fixed-based operator to provide the services; and
(2) allowing more than one fixed-based operator to provide the services requires a reduction in space leased under an agreement existing on September 3, 1982, between the operator and the airport.

Secondly my comment wasn't about air travel it was about the ability to perform a strip search.

when are you referring to a strip search or scanner search prior to boarding an aircraft for travel in the United States It can become necessary. The random strip searches in front of your home is not.

I thought the whole point of these increased "measures" is because we are currently in grave danger. Your feelings of safety are not approved please refer back to your television box. It will let you know when you may feel safe again, until a new security breach is identified and then more measures will be necessary.

When a plane explodes from a bomber , or even just a madperson falls out of the sky on your home. Would that then be a level of breeched security that may begin to warrant better security?

Please dont be so arrogant to believe this is only going on in the USA..we all know that there is a war going on. Many many countrys not even involved in this war are also following the very same methods of controlling their population...it is implemented exactly with the same methods, MSM freaking out everybody with "terrorism", hollywood doing their work and so on..and everybody is buying it!!
This is NOT about american laws and witch jurisdiction is responsable for air space...it is a matter of controlling the population of the world. Look beyond the USA please.
Countrys like Sweden and Norway has to prepare their airports to this level of "security" too . We are soooo screewed!
Truth is we are too few to stop this at this moment, the revolution will come in a few decades or so..maybe next century, this generation is fu#¤&!

In my opinion, if the americans fear it is because you are involved in several invasions around the world. It is WAR, you should know all about it. Of course different organisations want to strike on USa soil.
Yow want to feel safe? STOP THE WARS!! Stop them all right now, and make new friends not new enemies every single decade.



[edit on 9-1-2010 by gusan]

reply to post by Zeptepi

(1) The United States Government has exclusive sovereignty of airspace of the United States.

Under Constitutional law they do not have the ability to claim exclusive sovereignty of airspace. That fact is conceded in paragraph two:

A citizen of the United States has a public right of transit through the navigable airspace.

If the U.S. Government has exclusive sovereignty then by definition no one else has any ability to claim rights to that airspace. Yet it is admitted that a citizen has the right to transit through through the airspace.

when are you referring to a strip search or scanner search prior to boarding an aircraft for travel in the United States It can become necessary. The random strip searches in front of your home is not.

You only say a strip search is necessary prior to boarding a plane because that is what you have been told. Can individuals not kill just as many people without the use of a plane? If a strip search is necessary to boarding a plane certainly it must be necessary in all public places of equal population size to an aircraft.

As I thought, nobody reads other people's posts and considers them.

Some of you people are so dense, it's no wonder your liberties are being taken away. You don't just allow it, you invite it. You don't use the brains God gave you.

This is not about someone seeing you naked.

This is not about whether or not you consent to being seen naked.

This is not about providing you with safety.

This is not about preventing terrorism.

This is about you doing what your told and not complaining to your government when your freedoms are taken from you.

Stop gurning and whining on the internet. Go do something about it, or else give up your liberties and be a complete passive slave.

It's your choice, I won't be posting in this thread again until people stop whining about who has the right to see their willy.

reply to post by harvib

If the U.S. Government has exclusive sovereignty then by definition no one else has any ability to claim rights to that airspace. Yet it is admitted that a citizen has the right to transit through through the airspace.

You seem to be confused about the concept of sovereignty and citizenship rights. Your local Community College should be able to hook you up with a Civics class.

The law is simply acknowledging that that airspace belongs to the people of the United States and that its citizens have the right to use that airspace in such a way that it does not interfere with other citizens right to use the airspace and that the U.S. Government is the sovereign power empowered to make laws concerning how that space is used to the benefit of all citizens.
Who else would you have as the sovereign power over U.S. airspace?
Canada?

How on earth do you come to the conclusion that U.S. Government (We The People) Sovereignty over our airspace means that citizens don't have the right to use it (or vice versa). It is two different things, not an either/or situation.

And before you know it pictures are being leeked to the internet of inverted collored naked blonds.

I can just imagine it

I you could poll the relatives of those that were lost in 9/11, I am sure you would come up with the overwhelming opinion that having some machine take a snapshot of your naked body would be preferrable to the increased risk of not arriving at your intended destination or being in the towers hit by those planes.

It is possible that this technology would have detected some of the implements that the hijackers smuggled on their person to subdue the pilots and ward off the passengers.

That alone is all that should matter here.

Who the hell should care about an x-ray type picture of your body, no matter what it shows, if it is going to save your life, as well as everyone else on the plane. If you disagree, then just stay off my aircraft, thank you.

The population on this planet needs to get a grip on reality and stop reacting to outdated standards of decency and letting the media pollute your otherwise unbiased ability to maintain common sense.

(edited for content)



[edit on 9-1-2010 by charlyv]

Originally posted by charlyv
I you could poll the relatives of those that were lost in 9/11, I am sure you would come up with the overwhelming opinion that having some machine take a snapshot of your naked body would be preferrable to the increased risk of not arriving at your intended destination or being in the towers hit by those planes.

That would be an audience with too much potential for bias.

I would prefer a randomly selected group for such a poll.

reply to post by rnaa

You seem to be confused about the concept of sovereignty and citizenship rights.

You seem to be confused about the concept of the term "United States Government". Hate to break it to you but "property of the U.S. Government" usually means "we the people" are to keep our hands off. Despite what your local community college's civics class taught you United States Government is not synonymous with the people of the United States.

The law is simply acknowledging that that airspace belongs to the people of the United States

No the law is assigning sovereignty to the Corporation that is based out of the District of Columbia. You and I aren't part of "We the People".



[edit on 9-1-2010 by harvib]

reply to post by charlyv

I you could poll the relatives of those that were lost in 9/11, I am sure you would come up with the overwhelming opinion that having some machine take a snapshot of your naked body would be preferrable to the increased risk of not arriving at your intended destination or being in the towers hit by those planes.

Let's not forget that the planes on 9/11 were supposedly hijacked by box cutters. There are places on the human body that can fit a non-metallic item with the cutting power of a box cutter. I for one will not fill safe until every individual is given a full cavity search.

reply to post by harvib


Yeah...The last time i was aloud anywhere near something that said "Property of the US Govt" was when it was being issued to me.

The people responsible for air safety cant manage to run the systems we already have in place what makes you think these scanners are going to be different?

Originally posted by dodgygeeza
Its the posters like this one that have ruined ATS. What an utterly worthless waste of space some of the members on this site have become. 0% intellectual discussion, how quaint....

[edit on 9-1-2010 by dodgygeeza]

If you consider anyone who has a different point of view as a "waste of space," then you don't belong here anyway. I love ATS because in every thread, there is always decent representation of both sides of an argument. It appears though, that in this thread, one side definitely outnumbers the other.

The poster you are reffering to made a valid, albeit brief, point. If you are so uncomfortable with something that it fills you with rage to think you might have to subject yourself to it: don't do it. No one is forcing you to fly when you want to travel. You and others here might view these scanners as an invasion of privacy, whereas others view them as an adaquate means of going a little bit further to improve security. And don't anybody give me that Ben Franklin quote... who are YOU to decide what I deserve?!

reply to post by thoughtsfull

This is what a lot of people are referring to as privacy issues. It's not about nudity it's about privacy. People who use urinary catheters, incontinence pads etc. were able to go out into the world and nobody had to know.

My husband is full of metal pieces, screws, rods plus he's a big guy. He always gets pulled aside, first it's the wand sometimes they'll use a second one then a thorough pat down. They stand around talking, looking at his ID while other people go past. He's Serbian/American we have a name that goes on forever they don't like that for some odd reason. Not easily remembered idk? My hubby is a great guy. I can tell you from hanging around the security areas he's not alone. Many people are pulled off to the side.

If these scanners are more sensitive to medical appliances, more people will be taken aside. It's going to get crowded off to the side. I imagine to avoid congestion and by the very nature of the appliances people will be escorted to rooms or booths for privacy & "more safety."

I don't like this we won't fly. Who is going to be standing in the sidelines? Little old ladies, people with medical problems, my big harmless husband and by the way grab that woman with him. How about terrorists? No they'll be the ones personally escorted on without a passport.

I'm glad some of you are so normal life must really just sail by for you. What you fail to see are the people who get caught in the crosswind until you are one of them.

Originally posted by dereks

Originally posted by drwizardphd
Aside from the gross invasion of your privacy every time you want to fly somewhere?

you have the choice - if you think it is a gross invasion of privacy then dont fly

Alright then, now in order to fly we should not only pay ridiculously steep airport taxes and have a National ID or passport, but we should all negate some of our most basic right to personal privacy... and all that because of ONE SINGLE loonie who tried to ignite something in a plane, while he could, for some unknown reason, get on a plane with explosives in his handbag, in the highest security protocols ever.

Sheepish reasoning like that just shows how mankind is doomed to go back to the dark ages... to the Republic, adios.

Originally posted by dereks

Originally posted by drwizardphd
Aside from the gross invasion of your privacy every time you want to fly somewhere?

you have the choice - if you think it is a gross invasion of privacy then dont fly

You know what? FREEDOM OF TRAVEL IS A FREAKING RIGHT.

You don't agree with this ? MOVE TO FREAKING NORTH KOREA.

I'm sick of your kind, bunch of freaking lemmings who will bow down to anything. You have no self-respect, you're useless as a human.

[edit on 9-1-2010 by Vitchilo]