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Side-effect of "Affirmative Action" policies - inept cops

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posted on Jan, 7 2010 @ 12:19 PM
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VThe Chicago Police Department is seriously considering scrapping the police entrance exam, sources tell Fran Spielman.

Dropping the exam would bolster minority hiring and avert legal battles, according to one source, while others confirm that the exam could be scrapped to open the process to as many people as possible.

However, the lack of an exam would make Chicago the lone major city without one, and experts contend that the exam is integral to eliminating unqualified applicants.

The CPD has tried in recent years to boost minority hiring by offering the police exam online and turning to minority clergy to help in the recruitment effort. Source


This is nuts all over the place.

If a person cant pass the test that's one thing. You can't pass you can't pass. Study up and try again.

To make the claim that you can't pass because you're not white is insane. Admission of inferiority? Maybe the test is biased, so what if the test is biased, you can't learn something new and really stick it to them? Besides, it's not like there are whites only schools and blacks only schools. Not until you get to college anyway.

To accept a position you know they had to throw out all standards for to make you qualify would be, to me, one of the most humiliating and embarrassing things I could imagine. Will applicants flock now knowing "hey, the PD will hire any old moron" ?




posted on Jan, 7 2010 @ 12:36 PM
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Yeah, I really like that idea of affirmative action: fight racism with racism. If you can't pass the test then you can not be a police officer, period. If a substantial amount of people who aren't passing the test are black, that tells you something.



posted on Jan, 7 2010 @ 12:49 PM
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And we wonder why our government is the way it is?

Affirmative action my interpretation-just another way government can put people that are unable to see the right from the wrong.

Imagine this, do you want affirmative action used to allow incompetent people to become doctor's, how about pilot's, how about nuclear plant engineers, or how about government officials(well that is already instituted).


I always wondered if no child left behind and affirmative actions was not to help advance anything but if it was to hold EVERYONE back to the weakest link in the chain.

We all know the answer to that, you cannot have people that excel in the new Utopia.



posted on Jan, 7 2010 @ 12:53 PM
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Originally posted by endisnighe
I always wondered if no child left behind and affirmative actions was not to help advance anything but if it was to hold EVERYONE back to the weakest link in the chain.


Whether intentionally or not that is exactly what policies like that accomplish in the end.

Whenever a group, individual or organization rises above the lowest common denominator it seems government is right there to push them down or artificially push the LCD up into the realm effectively watering it down right back to LCD status.



posted on Jan, 7 2010 @ 01:00 PM
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reply to post by thisguyrighthere
 


I'm with you chief. Eliminating testing for candidates is a bad idea, but when the US government lowered their standards to included former criminals so this doesn't surprise me at all. Now, let's take a look at what you said shall we?



If a person cant pass the test that's one thing. You can't pass you can't pass. Study up and try again.


Bingo, i'm with you chief.



To make the claim that you can't pass because you're not white is insane.


That is BS. That's the same reason why you got these closet racists that love to give IQ tests to people of color (non-white) and love to claim that black people are always at the bottom of the spectrum. There is a cultural bias with some tests (like the SAT), but since i haven't seen or taken the entrance exam i'm not going to comment.



Admission of inferiority? Maybe the test is biased, so what if the test is biased, you can't learn something new and really stick it to them?


So what if the test is biased? Wow i'm leaving that comment alone.



Besides, it's not like there are whites only schools and blacks only schools. Not until you get to college anyway.


Oh yes there are, you just don't know what to look for.



To accept a position you know they had to throw out all standards for to make you qualify would be, to me, one of the most humiliating and embarrassing things I could imagine. Will applicants flock now knowing "hey, the PD will hire any old moron" ?


There aren't throwing out "all standards" just the entrance exam. They still have to attend the academy. Like i said earlier Uncle Sam lowered his standards in accepting new recruits and he's not even asking you to follow the law but help him kill his enemies.



posted on Jan, 7 2010 @ 01:03 PM
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reply to post by thisguyrighthere
 





Whenever a group, individual or organization rises above the lowest common denominator it seems government is right there to push them down or artificially push the LCD up into the realm effectively watering it down right back to LCD status.


Thank you. The US government has been pulling that trick since slaves were freed, except unlike today the racism and overall disdain wasn't concealed with PC concepts.



posted on Jan, 7 2010 @ 01:08 PM
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Some of the people that are "qualified" are actually unqualified. What needs to happen is states need to update their training classes, tests, etc.

However, my question as it pertains to this case is are they hurting because they are at a loss when it comes to officer count (as stated in the article), due to minorities not being highly ranked/promoted within the force (stated in the article) or AA?



[edit on 7-1-2010 by EMPIRE]



posted on Jan, 7 2010 @ 01:19 PM
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reply to post by EMPIRE
 


What is happening is alot of blacks are not being hired. They are not being hired mostly because they can not pass the entrance exam. So to try and avoid legal battles with blacks (because the blacks will say they are not being hired solely for the fact that they are black) they are just going to scrap the entrance exam. What blacks want is what is called affirmative action. That is basically they get the job not because of their qualification or competence, but because of the color of thier skin, which is wrong.



posted on Jan, 7 2010 @ 01:20 PM
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reply to post by EMPIRE
 




However, my question as it pertains to this case is are they hurting because they are at a loss when it comes to officer count (as stated in the article), due to minorities not being highly ranked/promoted within the force (stated in the article) or AA?


From reading that article EMPIRE i don't think they are hurting in recruiting minority officers, 1 in 4 are minorities, patrol officers anyway. The problem comes in when it's time for that promotion. Only 1 in 12 Lieutenants were of color. Now my question is it because of promoting practices or qualification.

And i find it funny that anytime a "test" is questioned as potentially hindering minority hiring or promoting, literally the dogs come out. We haven't seen the questions on the test and i'm not going on the word of someone else unless it's fam. I reserve my judgment until i can see it.



posted on Jan, 7 2010 @ 01:36 PM
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reply to post by kingoftheworld
 




What is happening is alot of blacks are not being hired. They are not being hired mostly because they can not pass the entrance exam.


Did you actually read that article? I don't think so because if you have then you would see that the problem is not with recruitment OR black people passing the exam, the problem is with the higher echelon, where there is a bottleneck in promotion.

And talking from experience while working temp jobs in north carolina, i can tell you there is a polarization when you start climbing that leader. You see black folks working the floor but soon as you go into the office settings, you get nothing but the white majority. Now is that because minorities aren't qualified or is it because they don't minorities in that setting? Personally, i don't care...



posted on Jan, 7 2010 @ 02:21 PM
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Originally posted by cenpuppie

There is a cultural bias with some tests (like the SAT), but since i haven't seen or taken the entrance exam i'm not going to comment.


Do you have an example of this? I hear it often but I havent seen any proof.

I mean, math biased? The only times I have ever heard of "black" math or "white" math would have been in the setting up of a racist joke.

I've attended public schools both urban and suburban and I've attended private schools both urban and suburban. The classrooms werent segregated. The teachers werent passing secret notes to the white kids or black kids. We werent getting different textbooks or different quizzes and werent being sent of different field trips.

I can understand cultural bias when a guy from New Jersey is supposed to take a test in Japan but not when two people from Camden are supposed to take a test from Trenton.



posted on Jan, 7 2010 @ 03:02 PM
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reply to post by cenpuppie
 


reply to post by kingoftheworld
 


Here is an excerpt taken directly from the article:


The CPD is currently operating at 2,000 officers-a-day short of its authorized strength. Police hired only 46 officers this year, with plans to hire less than 100 next year -- and those hirings rely on federal funds.


Bold emphasis added. For more info hit the link at the end of this post as it was actually linked in the O.P.s link. Again, my question as it pertains to this case is are they hurting because they are at a loss when it comes to officer count (as stated in the article), due to minorities not being highly ranked/promoted within the force (stated in the article) or AA?

www.suntimes.com...



[edit on 7-1-2010 by EMPIRE]



posted on Jan, 7 2010 @ 03:17 PM
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My two points are

1. Lowering the bar will lead to more incompetent white males in the force. Entrance exams and other qualifications weed out white males who should not be cops.

2. In case everyone did not notice, a guy almost blew up a plane over Detroit because the cops were stupid. The last thing this world needs is more dumb cops. If anything, they should make entrance exams tougher.



posted on Jan, 7 2010 @ 03:45 PM
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I don't know how anyone else feels about this subject,but here is my opinion. I am sick to death of idiots! People whose fall back position is placing blame for their failures on someone elses shoulders. What the hell ever happened to self accountability? I guess that went out of style just as morals and ethics have.
Lowering the bar for anyone is wrong. Dropping the standards to accomadate lack of education or intelligence,gets you exactly what you bargain for.Illiterate,moron lackies that can hardly pour pee out of a boot with directions on the heel.
When are people in this country going to wake up and realize that political correctness/affirmative action has ruined our way of life. I believe we should be able to put our trust in people that have earned their position,not in people that through some disparity or another were socially promoted.

[edit on 7-1-2010 by daddyroo45]



posted on Jan, 7 2010 @ 03:55 PM
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lol.
First off..its Chicago(Not suprised here).
Second Off..Its Chicago.
Im not the biggest fan of the police force, but I am less of a fan of having to live in an area patrolled by morons.
As it is now, the entrance exams (to me) are not good enough.
If they do this, all that is going to happen is exactly opposite of what they are trying to achieve.
Put a trigger happy moron out there that cant pass a psyche test, literacy test, and physical tests, is going to do nothing BUT open the doorways to many more civil complaints and lawsuits.

Edit.

[edit on 7-1-2010 by Common Good]



posted on Jan, 7 2010 @ 04:29 PM
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I just wonder if this would be an issue at all if the roles were reversed? If the CPD were full of black cops with no whites passing the exam would they still want to toss the exam? Wait, I know the answer to that one already... I would say that affirmative action = racism, but we all know that only white people can be racist.



posted on Jan, 7 2010 @ 05:44 PM
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I used to think Affirmative Action was a bad idea. After the election of Obama, seeing how much racism has risen to the surface since that event, I may have changed my mind. Maybe Affirmative Action is a good thing.

I know there are a lot of reasons people don't like Obama... but I do find it interesting that the people that love to hate the Kenyan Socialist, also have a problem with Affirmative Action.



posted on Jan, 7 2010 @ 06:20 PM
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Originally posted by spiritualzombie
I used to think Affirmative Action was a bad idea. After the election of Obama, seeing how much racism has risen to the surface since that event, I may have changed my mind. Maybe Affirmative Action is a good thing.

I know there are a lot of reasons people don't like Obama... but I do find it interesting that the people that love to hate the Kenyan Socialist, also have a problem with Affirmative Action.



I use to live in a country where self determination and merit could lead you to any position/job. Now you may not be able to fullfill your dreams because the government believes that someone less qualified for the position warrents the job. How is that action in the affirmative?
Disregarding the most qualified for a job in favor of someone less qualified is sucide for competitive business. It must be a real heady feeling to recieve benifit of an affirmative action program,KNOWING that you are not the best and brightest,but simply a quota.



posted on Jan, 7 2010 @ 06:32 PM
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I agree that it absolutely sucks anytime someone more qualified would lose to someone less qualified. It would be best if it wasn't necessary. I used to think it was no longer necessary, that America had moved past race... then I saw all the racism that surfaced after Obama became president and I realized racism was alive and well and deeply rooted.

These fears of losing a job to someone less qualified is a bit of anti-Affirmative Action fear mongering though. Not saying it cant happen, but an employer looking for the right employee can always choose to hold out for a better candidate.



posted on Jan, 7 2010 @ 07:21 PM
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reply to post by thisguyrighthere
 




Do you have an example of this? I hear it often but I havent seen any proof.


I took the SAT so, i'm speaking from experience with that thing. Half of the stuff i was tested on i was never exposed to. The reading part of the test was difficult simply because i haven't seen the words and usage they were going for...and i am an avid reader at that.



I can understand cultural bias when a guy from New Jersey is supposed to take a test in Japan but not when two people from Camden are supposed to take a test from Trenton.


Then you really don't understand. There IS a cultural difference in America when it comes to black and white Americans and i feel that too many people don't acknowledge it or just want to stick there head in the sand (not saying or implying it's you). To them there is only one culture in this country, American, and that is far from the truth.



[edit on 7-1-2010 by cenpuppie]



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