rosicrucian/templar/christian symbology help required

OK so somehow I've got caught up in this Da Vinci code thing, I live in Heighington, South of Lincoln, in the UK. Apparently i'm in the heart of Templar country. I'm a bit new to this but I've been exploring some of the churches and sites discussed on this web site:

www.templarmechanics.com...

In brief the churches round this area, when linked up with straight lines on a map form a pentagram and a hexagram on the land. I am going to draw this out myself to confirm.

Here is the first clue/interesting find I would like help with.

The chandelier in the west wing that I believe was added on in the 14th 15th century (original church is 13th century I'm informed) hangs from a Rosicrucian rose emblem on the ceiling.

I have been watching a documentary;

www.veoh.com...

where they say the rose is a symbol of secrecy. Is it normal to see Rosicrucian roses in Christian churches. Have I found anything interesting here? What has the rose been used to symbolise in the past? Usually a rose symbolizes beauty, love and passion. The thorns are a reminder that love can also be painful according to wikipedia.

Basically I want to know how common it is to find these roses in churches and what if anything it could mean/symbolise?

It was a five petaled rose in the rosicrucian style with another smaller rose in the middle then the stem of the chandelier.

Originally posted by redzi0n

where they say the rose is a symbol of secrecy. Is it normal to see Rosicrucian roses in Christian churches. Have I found anything interesting here? What has the rose been used to symbolise in the past? Usually a rose symbolizes beauty, love and passion. The thorns are a reminder that love can also be painful according to wikipedia.

It must be remembered that the Rosicrucians were a strictly Christian order, as their manifestos make clear. The actually symbolism of the rose refers to the Rose of Sharon mentioned in the Song of Solomon, a symbol of Christ.

The rose has also traditionally been used as a symbol of Lutheranism (and the original Rosicrucians appear to have been Lutherans).

reply to post by redzi0n


I just posted about a book that sounds essential for your purposes.

Encyclopedia of the Knights Templar

As I said in the thread, I haven't read it yet, but from what I was able to see (and hear from fellow historians) it is indispensable for anyone who is interested in this.

As for Christian symbols, there is a vast array of very good encyclopedias - it depends on the languages you can read.

Good luck!

P.S. Oh, and if you are serious about researching this... stay away from Dan Brown.
He knows NOTHING.

Originally posted by redzi0n
In brief the churches round this area, when linked up with straight lines on a map form a pentagram and a hexagram on the land. I am going to draw this out myself to confirm.

Such exercises are generally a waste of time. The only way one could reasonably argue intent with such a layout is if the distance between the churches is equal. If people want to go off about how important geometry is, then they have to take that all the way... a pentagram isn't just any 5 points joined up with lines, the lines have to be the same length, and the interior and exterior angles need to be equal as well.

People can pick any number of points on a map and play connect the dots, but it doesn't prove squat if the geometry isn't perfect. I'd recommend avoiding that venue of "investigation" if I were you.

reply to post by JoshNorton


"I'd recommend avoiding that venue of "investigation" if I were you"

That's not really in alignment with the ATS motto is it, Athena shakes her spear at you.

How can we ever learn anything if we refuse to even look?

reply to post by Vanitas


Thanks for tip I will probably buy the book in the new year.

Actually, I'm a long time hierarchy member of a Rosicrucian group and a practicing occultist and CM'er. I would be happy to offer any practical help regarding RC symbolism. While it is a common held belief that the Rosicrucians are a Christian organisation, their roots and symbols go way back before Jesus. I'm not saying I can provide you with any worth while clues, but I will try and help as I think your topic is an interesting one.

BTW, this is my first post and I've dived straight in without introducing myself on the forum yet. My appologies for the poor etiquette. As long as my login works this time I will follow protocol!

Kind regards,

Whitehall1212

reply to post by Whitehall1212


Fantastic thanks for the offer, I find the occult interesting too though I do not know what you mean by CM'er.

reply to post by redzi0n


Hey - you can just borrow it first, you know? :-)

And if you do, I think it would be a good idea for you to perhaps post a review of it here.
(We have a very good thread or two about books, although they have been inactive for a very long time now. I remember one was authored by KarlHungis.)









[edit on 28-12-2009 by Vanitas]

Oh, and another thing (only tangentially relevant here): I posted the English translation of the Chinon Parchment today. If you're interested in the Templars, you may want to read it (if you haven't already, that is).

The Chinon Parchment






[edit on 28-12-2009 by Vanitas]

Originally posted by Whitehall1212
While it is a common held belief that the Rosicrucians are a Christian organisation, their roots and symbols go way back before Jesus.

This is true. However, the actual historical Rosicrucians were indeed a Christian organization, as they make clear in the Fama and Confessio. Modern Rosicrucian groups, which are legion, may or may not be Christian organizations, depending on the actual order. For example, AMORC and the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn never specifically required initiates to be Christians, whereas other Rosicrucian groups like the Masonic Rosicrucian Society and Max Heindel's Rosicrucian Fellowship have always been Christian.

OK, I've got 2 symbols I need help with, for starters knowing what they are called would be of help. But I would also like to know anything you know about these symbols.



Thanks in advance for any help

reply to post by redzi0n


Here is a starting point for example a. If you scroll to page 9 of the book, you will see what I think is a close interpretation of your drawing. I can't read any of it, but it's a starting point.

Symbol B is a fleur-de-lys, flower of the lily

reply to post by redzi0n


The first one is a quatrefoil - a pretty standard feature in medieval architectural decoration - the second one a fleur-de-lis (as mentioned by another poster).










[edit on 1-1-2010 by Vanitas]

reply to post by JoshNorton


If people want to attempt to show you how smart they are why not show them this? You should note the pentagram is the iota the Alpha & Omega the Yod-Heh-Shin-Vav-Heh Formula of the four elements with the letter shin of the triple flame. Note the omega feature, The shin will have a value of 4 branches

Note: iota has a value of 10 a number of completion, Alpha has a value of 1 a number of beginning & Omega has a value of 800 & is the last greek alphabet. 800+1=801 8+1=9 And 9 is the Golden ratio always forever creating 9 is without fail.

Also Note Sacred Geometry is the dense seed of thought of God/YHVH/Yod-Heh-Vav-Heh/Tetragrammaton manifested in mathematics and when shin is added to the Yod Heh Vav Heh 4 elemental formula you have both personality/life via the divine spark & mathematics via the dense seed of thought via the sacred geometry of God. Don't let his rhetoric fool you, Imperfect human math makes imperfect geometry. But sacred Geometry is perfect there-forth geometry is perfect when in the right *hands.*

Habakkuk 3:4
And his brightness was as the light; he had horns coming out of his hand: and there was the hiding of his power.

Oh ya btw! the Rose is a symbol of Immortality also the Rose is a symbol of the morning star of that being venus. Because the cycle patterns of venus resembles a rose. A white rose means "silence", Although in recent times the rose has became a symbol for the blood of christ. The cross means vertical/divinity/Compass & horizontal/reality/Square. And if you was to draw the lines of the cross if would be without ending. As we live in a world of nature in a body with a mind with a soul animated by the seed of life/spirit, You can see the manifestation of the physical body, etheric body , astral body & the mental body upon the cross? The four human bodies, the holy cross of spirit and matter! And to meet in the middle is to attempt to achieve immortality via *balance.*

But with the Da Vinci Code it directs to the Rosslyn Chapel attempting to connect Mary Magdalene as Jesus's wife & or lover. Saying that christ/messiah/messenger has a blood line on earth. Hence the holy grail being the pregnant women who give birth to the nobles who branch off this supposed line. Which give rise to the Merovingian dynasty and their supposed order of the Priory of Sion/Brotherhood of Saint John. A key to this puzzle is the Apprentice Pillar in Rosslyn Chapel it represents Mary Magdalene the neophyte/apprentice who was given the church by jesus instead of peter the rock. Many people think there is another key with the Paris Meridian-The Rose Line. Also the Da Vinci Code was wrote off of "Pierre Plantard" the principal perpetrator of the Priory of Sion! Here is a interesting "link" to the Sinclair engrailed cross overlaid with a rose.

P.S. the Fleur-de-lis symbol = a Bee which stands for begotten of the christbride to build the hive of nobles.

reply to post by Project2501


I haven't even read your post but I know it's important. I wasnt going to open this thread but caught your name out the corner of my eye on my My ATS list. I watched Ghost In The Shell 2 last night Jap version with english subs. It blew my mind.

I know synchronicty when i see it.

[edit on 9-1-2010 by redzi0n]

Thanks for all the help everyone it's much apreciated. I'll come back when I can get some order to my research.

The symbol of the dog is prevalant round here in the cathedral and churches. I had a whisper in my ghost that told me to look at the dog star. So I'm currently researching the sirius connection.

[edit on 9-1-2010 by redzi0n]

reply to post by redzi0n


The Blazing Star of Sirius would give the egyptians warning of the approaching inundation of the Nile; Hence they compared it to a faithful dog, whose bark gives warning of approaching danger. - Stellar Theology and Masonic Astronomy

Also Sirius is 2 stars being Sirius A & B that intertwine every 49.9 years forming the Caduceus/Hermetic wand in the sky behind the veil of Isis/Sun. As Thoth/Tehuti is of that wand. The wand of Tehuti was considered a Astra/Astral weapon style when in a certain context.

And next to Sirius is the Hare constellation also known as the "Lepus constellation" this is why the Pharaohs pyramid secrets was pointed to the Bark of the Dog. As to awaken their arrival so they could travel down the Rabbit hole to take care of some royal business. While many focus of the 7 ladies known as the Pleiades! (Canis Major Lepus+Columba Noachi *Cela Sculptoris!*) is where the royals are at! You know a Nebula/"Pillars of Creation" is a new galaxy for the souls/stars to reincarnate!

Astronomy is a wonderful thing once you understand the key of the "emerald tablet." As this primes you to understand the "Macrocosm and microcosm" & Microcosm to Macrocosm mirrored effects of the universal workings. Think of it like this the double headed eagle most people think means East/Religion & West/Secular while the true key is a Macrocosm to microcosm effect. East is the "Phoenix (constellation)" and the West is the is the "Aquila (constellation)." And to know all of this is to know the "Caelum Constellation" the sculptor's chisel/education.

Also for the christian symbols and astronomy "The Book of Daniel" is a Book of Constellations

Originally posted by redzi0n
Thanks for all the help everyone it's much apreciated. I'll come back when I can get some order to my research.

The symbol of the dog is prevalant round here in the cathedral and churches. I had a whisper in my ghost that told me to look at the dog star. So I'm currently researching the sirius connection.

[edit on 9-1-2010 by redzi0n]

Some other links:
ROSICRUCIAN
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

BACH and connection to ROSICRUCIAN
www.abovetopsecret.com...