God is the true cause

A nice reply, i will respond to your views a bit later as i have to nip out for now...

I will try and elaborate on my views

reply to post by mr-lizard


cool, I'll keep talking from my soap box in the meantime.

~it's amazing how just being ourselves can exploit so many rules~ that's an intentionally benign remark

Anyways, if I did not want such an "eye catching" thread title, I could have chosen something like "Nothing is good or bad but thinking makes it so". If I wanted more of an eye catching phrase I'd say "We are all Gods" or perhaps "I am God" as something even more startling to the Christians. But regardless, all of those statements contain truths to them. For nothing is good or bad but thinking makes it so. The objective world is influenced by the subjective mind. It is impossible to be completely objective while you are still alive, because that would imply you are somehow ignoring your own self. Things may exist outside of the mind, but nothing is comprehended outside of your own mind.

Originally posted by ancient_wisdom
~it's amazing how just being ourselves can exploit so many rules~ that's an intentionally benign remark

For nothing is good or bad but thinking makes it so.

To a degree, but define 'thinking', are you talking consciously or unconsciously? In which are these states are we capable or assesment and more to the point, why? WHAT is the assessor of our thoughts?

Why do we think?

The objective world is influenced by the subjective mind.

Things may exist outside of the mind, but nothing is comprehended outside of your own mind.

But of course that statement ignores the billions of other 'thinking' minds that exist outside your own. Unless you maybe believe reality shouldn't/wouldn't/cannot exist without a framework of a billion thoughts??

Is the idea of God, nothing more than a largely, divisive yet collective stream of evolving thoughts?

Wow, allI see on this thread is a bunch of arrogance from TarzanBeta and ancient_wisdom. Wow!!!

[edit on 23-12-2009 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Wow, allI see on this thread is a bunch of arrogance from TarzanBeta and ancient_wisdom. Wow!!!

[edit on 23-12-2009 by SpeakerofTruth]

arrogance, maybe, confidence, yes!

reply to post by mr-lizard



To a degree, but define 'thinking',

Thinking is empirical reasoning, in other words evaluating one point of logic to the next. To KNOW is more than to think, to KNOW is simply to BE.

are you talking consciously or unconsciously?

Is it possible to talk unconsciously? If I was unconscious, how could I talk? I am talking consciously, how else can one talk? If you mean the difference between the conscious or unconscious mind, my main goal is the subjective mind, some people call this the "unconscious" mind, but I do not use that phrase, I use "universal conscious" mind to be the same as God/Truth.

In which are these states are we capable or assesment and more to the point, why? WHAT is the assessor of our thoughts?

The self is the assessor of our thoughts. We have sense perceptions, imagination, reason, and intelligence. Reason understands things point by point, intelligence KNOWS things. "The Self knows without knowing, for nothing is separate from itself" ~Upanishads. That means everything you know is known through likeness of your self.

Why do we think?

We think about either the material world of senses, names, and objects, or the immaterial self. I choose to think about the immaterial self.


But of course that statement ignores the billions of other 'thinking' minds that exist outside your own. Unless you maybe believe reality shouldn't/wouldn't/cannot exist without a framework of a billion thoughts??

There are a billion bodies, each with their own mind, but remember what a mind is "everything to me, nothing to you." So I would agree that there are a billion bodies, and each body thinks in a similar manner and process that we call "thinking" and so that thinking is the mind. People sometimes say consciousness is a process, well so is the mind, but not everyone thinks the same. People also say there are billions of souls, but I do not agree. There are billions of selves because each body is self-conscious, but there is only one Reality, and that is the essence of our true nature. So in other words, there is only One Supreme Soul.

Is the idea of God, nothing more than a largely, divisive yet collective stream of evolving thoughts?

The idea of God is a perfect being/state that exists eternally. The evolving stream of thoughts is God's creation.

I like how you use the phrase "idea of God" I also believe in the IDEA of God more so than a God separate from me. I believe we are all of the same nature of God, so to worship a God outside of yourself is misinterpreting the idea of God.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Wow, allI see on this thread is a bunch of arrogance from TarzanBeta and ancient_wisdom. Wow!!!

[edit on 23-12-2009 by SpeakerofTruth]

How the Pharisees thought Jesus was so arrogant!

Enjoy this well-knitted lie.

Originally posted by ancient_wisdom
reply to post by mr-lizard

 

Thinking is empirical reasoning, in other words evaluating one point of logic to the next. To KNOW is more than to think, to KNOW is simply to BE.

Okay but what about those creatures that have no knowledge / inferior memory or basic perception? Incapable of intricate thought but still exist and live.

Is it possible to talk unconsciously? If I was unconscious, how could I talk? I am talking consciously, how else can one talk?

When i say 'talk' i meant me and you talking about thinking consciously / unconsciously. Also it is possible to 'talk' and vocalise yourself whilst unconscious / asleep / in a trance, so despite the confusion my point still firmly stands.

If you mean the difference between the conscious or unconscious mind, my main goal is the subjective mind, some people call this the "unconscious" mind, but I do not use that phrase, I use "universal conscious" mind to be the same as God/Truth.

But until we truly understand which frame of mind we truly make decisions, we are still guessing. When you say universal conscious, are you saying that maybe all our thoughts are connected?

If this is true, it still does not provide any proof of a diety or god, just that we have untapped resources.

The self is the assessor of our thoughts. We have sense perceptions, imagination, reason, and intelligence. Reason understands things point by point, intelligence KNOWS things. "The Self knows without knowing, for nothing is separate from itself" ~Upanishads. That means everything you know is known through likeness of your self.

Agreed. Knowledge through experience and reaction.

People also say there are billions of souls, but I do not agree. There are billions of selves because each body is self-conscious, but there is only one Reality, and that is the essence of our true nature. So in other words, there is only One Supreme Soul.

I disagree, i believe there are infinte perceptions of this 'reality' , thus we cannot say it is a singular 'reality', in my opinion it is an ever-forming, ever changing stream of data.

To say there is only one reality, would be like saying there is only one body of water on the earth (which is true to a degree), but then we have to realise this large body of water consists of several oceans, seas, rivers, lakes, puddles, ponds and then the atmosphere, precipitation etc.

The idea of God is a perfect being/state that exists eternally. The evolving stream of thoughts is God's creation.

Some would have you believe that god does not exist externally at all. More like an internal experiencer of everything.

I like how you use the phrase "idea of God" I also believe in the IDEA of God more so than a God separate from me. I believe we are all of the same nature of God, so to worship a God outside of yourself is misinterpreting the idea of God.

Well i believe god exists purely in an ideological form and nothing more, it is the label of the unknown.

[edit on 24-12-2009 by mr-lizard]

reply to post by TarzanBeta


Firstly, "partner," you're not Jesus!! Secondly, I'm certainly not a Pharisee. So, don't come at me with your misnomers. Thank ya.

reply to post by TarzanBeta


Firstly, "partner," you're not Jesus!! Secondly, I'm certainly not a Pharisee. So, don't come at me with your misnomers. Thank ya.

ALL LOVE
ALL BEINGS
ALL CREATION

Yes the Creator of Creation is in all Creation.
All beings share existence within consciousness of Source-Creator
United, all LOVE flows connecting Creation

We are each divine sparks with God-fragments in us~


LOVE

In response to the atheists. As Ancient Wisdom said, atheism is basically a reaction against theism. In most cases, a particular kind of theism, such as Christianity and Islam. Largely because atheists tend to be scientifically minded, and the religious views of Christianity and Islam do not lend to science very well.

However, atheists need to be careful in dismissing all religions with one broad stroke and in completely rejecting the concept of god, souls and metaphysics etc Not all religions approach these areas with the faith appoach, some approach them using scientific thinking. Notables ones are Hinduism and Buddhism.

Hinduism and Buddhism is about dealing scientifically with the problems of the life world. Important questions like how do we achieive happiness, how do we end suffering, how do we know or realise our highest potentials and how do we cultivate virtue and understanding are answered by these religions using scientific thinking.

You see there is a difference between just stating an answer, as is done in faith based religions, "You achieive happiness by accepting Jesus" compared to a scientfic religion which will also give you reasons for their answer and be prepared to rationally argue them.

Buddhism will tell you the reason you are feeling unhappy is because of desire. You desire what is impermenant, that will not endure forever, this means that you are setting yourself up for disappointment. To trascend desire you need to develop detachment and realise what whatever comes into being is transient. This means cultivating a state of consciousness that is undisturbed by outside events and always content. In this state you flow with the world, rather than stuggle against it.

Hinduism will tell you that the reason you unhappy is because you seek self-realization. You have an innate understanding within you that you are not complete, that you feel the absence of something. There is a potential, a true state of being which you are unconscious of, but which is the cause of why you live another day. In order to satisfy this you aimely seek satisfication in the real world, but never find it because you never realise the true cause of happiness is within not without. According to Hinduism it is unity that you seek. An absolute state of being which is eternal and infinite. Merger with the source of being.

In Buddhism the state of constant flow is god and this is what we should aspire to. In Hinduism unity and being is god, and this is what we should aspire to. Both are practical solutions to the problems of life based on rationality.

Now, even on the face of it, you can see just how more scientific and sophisticated Hindusim and Buddhism are compared to Christianity and Islam. An atheist should not have a problem with Hinduism and Buddhism, in fact he could practice these religions and still remain atheist. Schophenhauer and Schrodinger were atheists, and they were both Hindu-Buddhist at the same time.

Surely even an atheist faces the problems of life? What's wrong in getting a little help from wise masters?

[edit on 24-12-2009 by Indigo_Child]