World War II, why is it so important?

I was watching a couple of videos on Youtube just now. One was saying that the amount of Jewish casualties during WW2 have been heavily inflated. One was a man saying that there could not have been gas chambers in Germany.

At the moment, I don't know enough to comment on those. But those led me to thinking; Why is it that I am ALWAYS hearing about WW2, I am CONSTANTLY reminded of it. It seems like, here in North America, we are always made to feel really bad about it, and especially bad for the Jews. Many more people died trying to save the Jews by 1945, shouldn't it be the Russians complaining? In fact, why exactly did so many people die for the Jews?

There have been so many times in history when many people have died. Millions upon millions of people from Africa were killed and enslaved during the colonization of the New World. During that same time, millions of natives died because of the new colonies. I think some black people and some natives have exploited these facts for their own pity, but if you compare the number of deaths, the number of Jewish people who died seems almost insignificant.

This could go on longer. I could bring up the Jewish bankers who helped fund Hitler in the first place. In the end, I just think that there are so many perspectives in this world I am missing because one event is constantly being brought up. I'd like to hear about Russia, China, Korea, even the famous Rwanda. It's not just WW2 that has happened, and it's not just Jewish people who have died. I would certainly like to hear about WW2 if I could just hear a bit about the rest of the world, and the other two millenia before those times.

Originally posted by Bananarama
In fact, why exactly did so many people die for the Jews?

What are you on about? Who died for the Jews?

I would certainly like to hear about WW2 if I could just hear a bit about the rest of the world, and the other two millenia before those times.

There are many good resources out there, try watching www.amazon.com...

reply to post by Bananarama


WW2 was evil - it killed many people - the soldiers, the Jews, Gay people. gypsies and it annihilated whole countries.

All wars are evil - please live your life without another war.

Blessings to you.

reply to post by Bananarama


Dear Bananarama

I am going to make a guess here that you are African American??? Certainly American.

Ok first off WW2 was not about the Jews not even a little bit.

It might even have been the first James Bond plot. It was about stopping world domination by the Nazis.

The situation with the Jews was not known to the allies until the very last few week of the war. The high command is another matter.

You are right about the Russians though with 20 million dead they are the ones who suffered.

In short WW2 was the one war that had to be fort, but one dose wonder what today’s world would be like if the allies had lost.

WW2 was so important because WW2 is the reason why we have the Military-Industrial complex running things in the world.

War was so profitable for the Military-Industrial complex that they decided to have more wars and terror to keep the money rolling in.

If there were peace, who would buy guns and tanks and planes and bombs that go boom?

World War II was a turning point in history... Unlike World War I, WWII was actually a global war.

Everybody got into the fight. Which was unprecedented. We had two theatres of conflict — two enemies of the free world versus the World.

It was also a time of unparalleled technological advance. I mean, the technology curve went straight up because they had to develop all these vehicles and gizmos and bombs and the Mother of God Bomb of all time, the bomb that still terrifies us to this day.

A lot of good technology came out of WWII, it really put us on a good scientific track. I mean, we developed radar and sonar and we went on to create the transistor which was the doorway to microelectronics and computer technology.

So, yeah, WWII was a BIG DEAL for a lot of reasons. It provided a springboard for our understanding of electromagnetism and nuclear physics, and it shîtcanned the worst regimes of terror and destruction the world had ever seen.

There's no comparable revelation in the history of Mankind. Nothing comes close. WWII is a BIG DEAL

— Doc Velocity





[edit on 12/23/2009 by Doc Velocity]

reply to post by Bananarama


If you look up any history books, the era from 1945-present is always referred to as the post-modern era. Why post? Because WW2 was an event that pushed humanity beyond what some call the point of no return, from a humanistic approach.

The Nazi's performed absolutely horrific experiments on jews, handicaps, blacks, gays, and any other people they deemed unworthy; from conscious experimental brain surgery to tying the legs of a pregnant woman when she goes into labor. However horrific these experiments were (they would fit in well in the SAW movies), humanity gained a lot of knowledge from these experiments, and much of modern medicine's technology has come from these experiments. Medical education has been using Nazi slides and pictures as recent as the 90's. Humanity crossed the point of no return.

If that isn't reason enough to make it matter, don't forget that what separated this war from all the rest was that this one was based upon race. Wars in the past were fought over resources, feud's, and freedom. This one was fought over race. Never before had a nation's top priority been the extinction of a race. Regardless of what these videos say, Millions of Jews died at the hands of Nazi's; whether they were slaved to death, shot, gassed, burned, beaten, whatever you call it. It is a KNOWN FACT that the holocaust became the top priority of the Nazi's agenda. As the war came closer to an end, instead of funneling resources and power to defending themselves, they used whatever resources they had left to kill more Jews.

This is fact. Whether or not the figure is exaggerated, the motive remains the same.

So WW2 matters, and always will, because it was a time when the people of the world united together to face evil, and vanquished it. WW2 became a changing point in the world's history, where people being killed because of their race was no longer acceptable. Sure it happens all the time today, but we all know it is wrong. Saying that Jewish bankers financed the Nazi's means nothing, because using this as a base for an argument implies that race matters, which was the whole problem to begin with.

I can't help but feel you are being extremely ignorant in asking such a question. If it weren't for the sacrifice of our grandfathers and fathers, the world would be a much different place right now. Millions of people gave up their lives so that we can live in this free world, and no matter how bad things may be now, I would choose this world any day over a world ruled by Nazi's. It's because of their sacrifice that you can be sitting at home expressing your opinion without being afraid.

In fact, it is probably because of this sacrifice that you are even alive at all.

Remember that.

It’s so funny hearing about all these gruesome and horrific stories about the Nazi’s. I wonder why that is, it would be because they were our enemies and we had to dehumanise them, just like we are dehumanising the Arabs we are fighting today, it makes it easier to kill and hate.

BTW the Nazis weren't interesting in world domination; they only wanted Germany for the Germans and to restore the country to its former glory.

People have really fallen hook line and sinker for this evil Nazi story.

Originally posted by purplemonkey
BTW the Nazis weren't interesting in world domination; they only wanted Germany for the Germans and to restore the country to its former glory. People have really fallen hook line and sinker for this evil Nazi story.

Oh, you purplemonkey, you have got to be kidding me.

The Third Reich invaded Poland, invaded Holland, invaded France, invaded Czechoslovakia, invaded Russia, et cetera, et cetera.

Keyword here, let's say it together: INVADED.

That means gather up your men and weapons and leave your country on an expedition to another country, where you kill and rape the hell out of the populace and occupy their domeciles.

C'mon, you crazy monkey, don't be absurd. The Nazi objective was cleansing the world of impurity, except for those impurities that were useful or pleasurable.

Interestingly, Hitler admired the British and considered them highly evolved. They were, after all, the descendants of Vikings. This did not stop Hitler from bombing the insane hell out of Britain, but it did stop him from invading Britain... He could have TAKEN Britain and Ireland as easily as he had taken France, if he wanted to.

He chose not to invade Britain, he just wanted to punish them. The guy was going for world domination, do you not see that?

— Doc Velocity







[edit on 12/23/2009 by Doc Velocity]

Originally posted by MAC269
reply to post by Bananarama

 

Dear Bananarama

I am going to make a guess here that you are African American??? Certainly American.

Ok first off WW2 was not about the Jews not even a little bit.

It might even have been the first James Bond plot. It was about stopping world domination by the Nazis.

The situation with the Jews was not known to the allies until the very last few week of the war. The high command is another matter.

You are right about the Russians though with 20 million dead they are the ones who suffered.

In short WW2 was the one war that had to be fort, but one dose wonder what today’s world would be like if the allies had lost.

I honestly don't know why you made that assumption, but I am not black and I am not American. Other races and other countries can show disinterest in WW2 also.

i]reply to post by Bananarama


From an academic point of view there are three changes that occured to sway international relations in the world during the twentieth century.

First, would be World War 1 because it involved many new instruments of war, helped foment a revolution that would affect the world for most of the century and began to change the balance of power in the world.

Second, would be the Second World War (imagine that. Not only, as a poster mentioned above, was this a full world war, it introduced Nuclear Power to the world and it caused many European nations to change their colonization policy. This war completely changed the balance of power in the world, completely shifting away from Western Europe for the rest of the century.

Finally, in the last years of the century and the first years of the next, we have had much of our previous methodologies turned end up with the advent of the "global war on terror" and the loss of individual nations sovereignty to that of trading blocks (E.U., Asean, UN, NAFTA)

But, of course you will only be interested in the statements in the paragraph about WWII.

Notice I did not mention the loss of however many Jewish persons. That can be considered one of the worst losses of human life in the history of the world. Also, as an above poster listed, the loss of Soviet lives were devestating as well.

Also, you could really get into a slippery slope argument when stating which groups losses were worse. I always like to refresh my memory of John Donne's "Meditation 17"


"...No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend's or of thine own were. Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee..."


[edit on 23-12-2009 by Dookie Master]

Are you serious? Have you EVER watched the history channel EVER! I litterly mean ever! Perhaps you were not paying attention in history class either. Im not going to repeat what was posted above but please think twice before you insult a ENTIRE GENERATION with a question like why was WWII so important and say that the jews really didn't suffer. Wtf Man? Seriously? Wtf? Millions of people were slottered! It's called the freaking holocaust! Wow wtf.

Originally posted by Doc Velocity

The Third Reich invaded Poland, invaded Holland, invaded France, invaded Czechoslovakia, invaded Russia, et cetera, et cetera.

Poland - joint invasion by Germany and the USSR, germany was recapturing territory that previously belonged to them (prussia)

Holland - They needed it as a way of getting into france, defensive.

France - the french declared war on germany, it was defensive

Czechoslovakia - Large number of ethnic germans, hitler wanted to 'protect' them.

Russia - If the germans didn't invade the USSR the USSR would of declared war on germany, and their industrial machine would of over powered germany's if they left it to long. I think the americans call this Preemptive war *cough* iraq *cough*, however in this case it was actually legitament.

reply to post by ThePeoplesSoldier


The entire second World War wasn't just about the holocaust mate.. it was about world domination and a race for the atomic bomb. And just the Jews didn't suffer, everyone suffered. The German people included. Because of the insanity of one man, pretty much like whats happening now (but maybe that could be expanded to 3 or 4 people in our time)

And your millions figure could be way off the mark, it's highly contested how many people were gassed or shot, but regardless of the figure it wasn't just lines and lines of Jews. It was poles, russians, any other europeans thats stood in their way, homosexuals.

Hitler was pretty much after everyone except decent physical specimens of humanity. I personally believe the level of purely Jewish killed during the Holocaust has been exaggerated beyond epic proportion.

Millions suffered, not just jews. People crying over persecution of Jews is getting sooo old now

reply to post by ItsallCrazy


Oh no I totally agree I know alot about WW2 im a HUGE history buff, I just thought that since he commented on the fact that the jews really didnt suffer that much I would point out that fact. That war was HUGE. You could make the most epic action movie ever about it. It was Good vs Bad, Evil vs rightous, Hitler attempting to control the world and with one mighty fist the allies standing up and saying NO WE SHALL NOT BE CONQUERED BY THE LIKES OF YOU! Backs against the wall and all odds stacked against them the allies prevail in the face of evil! Wow that would be a bad ass movie.

There was no good vs evil in WW2. All countries involved did horrific things, the military industrial complex was born and a new age of warfare had begun, there was a huge shift of power, new technologies created etc. It was a pivotal point in human history whether for good or bad. That's why it is always talked about and will continue to for a long time to come.



[edit on 23-12-2009 by Solomons]

reply to post by ThePeoplesSoldier


Well we're on the same page then

It's an incredibly dark but nonetheless interesting chapter in the history of man, there will still be mountains of stuff that went on that we won't know about for years or possibly ever know.

And yeah it could be an absolutely epic film.. or even a trilogy. Just not a pile of crap like Valkyrie, and maybe some German actors this time, not Tom Cruise thinking he's still doing Mission Impossible

Just edited cos I read your sig line - I like it!

[edit on 23-12-2009 by ItsallCrazy]

reply to post by purplemonkey

Poland - joint invasion by Germany and the USSR, germany was recapturing territory that previously belonged to them (prussia)

Wrong.... Hitler invaded Poland for Lebensraum... He promised this to the German people on many occasions before the outbreak of war. Hitler considered the people who lived in Eastern Europe as inferior and sub-human... The land that they lived on was chosen for the expansion of Hitler’s "master" race.


Without consideration of "traditions" and prejudices, it [Germany] must find the courage to gather our people and their strength for an advance along the road that will lead this people from its present restricted living space to new land and soil, and hence also free it from the danger of vanishing from the earth or of serving others as a slave nation.
--- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf 1

Notice what Hitler says here?? "New land and soil" not recapture old lands as you claim!!!

Holland - They needed it as a way of getting into france, defensive.

If someone who lives in my street threatens to beat me up does that give me the right to bulldoze my innocent neighbour’s house so that I may get gain easier access to the threat??

I'm sorry but that’s a pathetic excuse!!

France - the french declared war on germany, it was defensive

No... France was being defensive... Are you are forgetting what France suffered in WW1??? France had to watch as the German war machine went into gear once again... do you blame France for being worried??? Britain and France gave Hitler an ultimatum... "Do NOT invade Poland" Hitler ignored it and so War was declared.

Czechoslovakia - Large number of ethnic germans, hitler wanted to 'protect' them.

Again this is an excuse... Could Hitler not have just opened the doors to any ethnic Germans living in Czechoslovakia???

Russia - If the germans didn't invade the USSR the USSR would of declared war on germany, and their industrial machine would of over powered germany's if they left it to long. I think the americans call this Preemptive war *cough* iraq *cough*, however in this case it was actually legitament.

The relationship that existed between Russia and Germany was complex and both sides wanted to buy time. However, Hitler had already hinted in Mein Kampf (1925) that he wanted to invade Russia...

For centuries Russia drew nourishment from this Germanic nucleus of its upper leading strata. Today it can be regarded as almost totally exterminated and extinguished. It has been replaced by the Jew. Impossible as it is for the Russian by himself to shake off the yoke of the Jew by his own resources, it is equally impossible for the Jew to maintain the mighty empire forever. He himself is no element of organization, but a ferment of decomposition. The Persian empire in the east is ripe for collapse. And the end of Jewish rule in Russia will also be the end of Russia as a state.
--- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf

That’s Hitler’s own words... hate filled megalomaniac xenophobe nut job who got defeated by the very Race’s he viewed as inferior!!



Oh... and as a final note... The decision to invade Poland was far from popular with the average German...

What does that tell you about Hitler as a leader? A man who ignores the will of his people (who he claims to cherish) in favour of his own personal aspirations!!!

[edit on 23-12-2009 by Muckster]

Wow, lets step back here a bit. Everything in history has its roots in the past. WWII has its roots in what occurred during WWI. WWI has its roots in colonial, militaristic, racial, feudal mentality of the day. And on and on ...

The race card is the"ignition" to start a Fire. I has been used over and over in history. It is simple to use and implement.

So I would opinion based on my reading of history from this period that WWII was no more important than WWI.

Industrial expansion in part was due to the huge resources available to the colonial powers of the subdued people in Africa, South America, India etc.

reply to post by Bananarama

Why is it that I am ALWAYS hearing about WW2, I am CONSTANTLY reminded of it. It seems like, here in North America, we are always made to feel really bad about it, and especially bad for the Jews. Many more people died trying to save the Jews by 1945, shouldn't it be the Russians complaining? In fact, why exactly did so many people die for the Jews?

You seem to have a very narrow view to see the broad expanse of history. Millions did not die for the Jews. Unless you selectively choose to deny it, it was actually the Jews, the Russians and the Chinese that saw millions upon millions killed by a raging fascism that threatened the entire planet.

WW2 is an important event because the world came very close to a new dark age and it was only through the sacrifice of so many that we are here to even talk about it freely today.

And yes, I am biased. Our family saw one member die flying a B-17 over Germany in 1944 and another terribly wounded when his tank was hit in North Africa. So if you want to dismiss my opinion, please feel free. I just gave you license to do so. But I would merely suggest that you not be so quick to join contemporary, political if not wholly distorted views of WW2... or any other single point in history.

Humanity's many mistakes are all there in history books and if we have the slightest interest in avoiding repeat performances of some of those most horrible, regrettable moments, we should take it all to heart and not spew it back out as if there were meaningless to us in our current lives.

Best