MIRACLES: THE WORLDS FORGOTTEN ENGIMA

reply to post by Level X


OK how about the fact that there is enough nuke power to turn this planet into glass. We have a bunch of nut jobs running this with crazy ideals like Game theory while holding the trigger on nuclear extermination.

Last time I checked we are still here, that's another miracle if you ask me.

I hope that one keeps up too.

reply to post by Izarith


The church has built upon these holy acts from God & Jesus and intertwined them in their message to lure folks in. The Bible only professess grand miracles.

Where are they today? Name one please.

Originally posted by Izarith
reply to post by Level X

 

OK how about the fact that there is enough nuke power to turn this planet into glass. We have a bunch of nut jobs running this with crazy ideals like Game theory while holding the trigger on nuclear extermination.

Last time I checked we are still here, that's another miracle if you ask me.

I hope that one keeps up too.

Nukes and the button not being pressed do not = a miracle. Put this in the Bible and it would not hold water. You are taking about a preventive act... Give me a scenario of 1000 nukes headed our way and they all fizzle and turn into white doves of peace... Now that would be a modern miracle.

[edit on 21-12-2009 by Level X]

reply to post by Level X


Ok how about the fact that with today's science and technology the church still has the ability to lure people in. By the billions mind you.

I'd say that is one damn grand biblical miracle if you ask me.

It gives us a nice Machiavellian situation of felling obligated to not rape, kill, and steal from each other.

Yet another one I hope keeps up.

Originally posted by Level X

Originally posted by Izarith
reply to post by Level X

 

OK how about the fact that there is enough nuke power to turn this planet into glass. We have a bunch of nut jobs running this with crazy ideals like Game theory while holding the trigger on nuclear extermination.

Last time I checked we are still here, that's another miracle if you ask me.

I hope that one keeps up too.

Nukes and the button not being pressed do not = a miracle. Put this in the Bible and it would not hold water. You are taking about a preventive act... Give me a scenario of 1000 nukes headed our way and they all fizzle and turn into white doves of peace... Now that would be a modern miracle.

[edit on 21-12-2009 by Level X]

Well some one would have to press the big red button for there to be a chance for that miracle.

Keep praying and you might get your wish. It would be a miracle if it never happens....right?

Originally posted by DarthChrisious
reply to post by Level X

 

The Shroud was just an example. I believe it's considered as a "Holy Relic."

I think today miracles are more of a matter of perspective. Most of us consider child birth as a miracle. Miracles are not solely religious in nature anymore.

As for why there are so many miracles in the Bible, you have to remember that Christianity didn't have a whole lot of followers in its early stages. Stories of miracles were mostly a conversion tool. Which story is more likely to attract people - Moses as God's prophet parting the sea and saving his people from certain death, or Moses simply outrunning the pharaoh?

Don't take the stories too literally.

Believe me I am not, and I am in agreement on the conversion tactic. Some folks would say a winning the lotto is a act of God. or is it? Which brings me back to my question.

Give me one example of a profound miracle where thousands can verify in the modern age.

Why are the Bible heads ducking this question? Why? Because they can't name one.



[edit on 21-12-2009 by Level X]

Originally posted by Izarith
reply to post by Level X

 

Ok how about the fact that with today's science and technology the church still has the ability to lure people in. By the billions mind you.

I'd say that is one damn grand biblical miracle if you ask me.

You are beautifying a miracle with a grand bamboozelment. I can't buy this logic.

Who performed these MEGA miracles that you talk about? JESUS did.
The thing now is that Jesus no longer walks amongst us to perform these miracles.
Now Jesus gave those who believe in him the gifts of the spirit, this allows Christians to pray to him and ask for lesser miracles to happen. why do i say lesser miracles, because it all comes down to faith.
Now i pray for people to be healed on a regular basis and i have seen many miracles happen. ( my cancer has now gone after my daughter prayed for healing for me and the oncologist is stumped as to where it has gone when it was there just weeks earlier.) I and other people have no problem mustering enough faith for these types of prayers but ask me to Go to Asda, pick up a few loaves of bread, a couple of fish and feed 5000 people.
Sorry, i don't see it happening, why? Because until God gives me the gift of miracles and lets me know that i have it for that perticular prayer. then i won't have enough faith for it to happen.

The gift of miracles is one of the gifts of the spirit, it is not given to everyone and unless it is given to you with the gift of faith also, then major miracles will not happen. That is how things are. I am just a mere mortal, not God.

Do you understand or comprehend how much faith is required to stand with someone who has a physical problem, lay hands on them and ask for healing? Especially when they expect to be healed. What do you say when nothing happens?
It takes a very special relationship with God to muster that much faith. I have it, but because i am human i still put limits on myself.

I hope in some way i have answered your question. If you really want a more solid answer then you will have to find people who have faith and hang around them for a while....

God is the major miracle maker here and we on earth are just his apprentices. Forever striving to be more like him.
Personally, i think it's pretty awsome that Jesus gives us this much.
Cool or what?


Cheers.


[edit on 21-12-2009 by jon1]

[edit on 21-12-2009 by jon1]

Originally posted by Izarith
We have a bunch of nut jobs running this with crazy ideals like Game theory while holding the trigger on nuclear extermination.

Last time I checked we are still here, that's another miracle if you ask me.

Too right, game theory pitting man against man on purpose, is a joke, and has made society rubbish beyond words.

The people that made up those theories, must have absolutely no empathy at all, and see humans as a disease.

The op is wrong on all counts, and it takes a wicked generation to ask for signs and wonders.

Miracle of Fatima, is one possibility:

May 13th, 1917.
An apparition of the Mother of Jesus says to three children ages 7 to 10(Lucia, Jacinta, Franscisco): "I am from heaven...I came to ask you to come here for six consecutive months, on the 13th day, at this same hour. I will tell you latter who I am and what I want...."


July 13th, 1917. Mary promises to perform a Miracle for the October meeting: "...You must come here every month, and in October I will tell you who I am and what I want. I will then perform a miracle so that all might see and believe..."


August 13th, 1917. The three children were kidnapped by the Authorities, taken to town, and forced to miss the Aug 13th appointment with Mary. They were held captive for 2 days. Interrogated, offered money, locked in a public prison, and threatened to be fried alive in a cauldron of boiling oil....all in attempt to make the children reveal the Secret message confided to them the previous month, otherwise to get the children to confess to a hoax.



Aug 19th, 1917. The Lady of the Apparition appears to the children for an unscheduled meeting and says: "...In October, I will perform a miracle so that everyone can believe in the apparitions. If they had not taken you to the town, the miracle would be even greater..."


Sept 13th, 1917. Mary repeats the promise of the miracle: "...In the last month, in October, I shall perform a miracle so that all may believe"



*********
October 13th. Day of the Miracle.
see wikipedia article regarding the Miracle:....en.wikipedia.org...


see chapter 10 online, regarding the miracle of the Sun from the book "The Whole Truth About Fatima" at => www.catholicvoice.co.uk...
Avelino de Almeida, Editor in Chief of O Seculo, wrote in O Seculo: "the sun made unusual and brusque movements, defying all the laws of the cosmos, and according to the typical expression of the peasants, 'the sun danced'"

In an article for "Illustracao Portuguesa" he wrote: "...what did I see at Fatima that was even stranger? The rain, at an hour announced in advance, ceased falling; the thick mass of clouds dissolved; and the sun--a dull silver disc--came into view at its zenith, and began to dance in a violent and convulsive movement, which a great number of witnesses compared to a serpentine dance, because the colours taken on by the surface of the sun were so beautiful and gleaming. Miracle, as the people shouted? A natural phenomenon, as the learned would say? For the moment, I do not trouble myself with finding out, but only with affirming what I saw... The rest is a matter between Science and the Church."


Wrote Father Pereira da Silva in a letter sent the very same evening: "Suddenly, the sun appeared with its circumference well-defined. It came down as if to the height of the clouds and began to whirl giddily upon itself like a captive ball of fire. With some interruptions, this lasted about eight minutes.»


Everybody's Clothes suddenly became dry.
noted by Marques da Cruz: "This enormous multitude was drenched, for it had rained unceasingly since dawn. But – though this may appear incredible – after the great miracle everyone felt comfortable, and found his garments quite dry, a subject of general wonder... The truth of this fact has been guaranteed with the greatest sincerity by dozens and dozens of persons of absolute trustworthiness, whom I have known intimately from childhood, and who are still alive (1937), as well as by persons from various districts of the country who were present."

continued....

...continued from the previous post.

all quotes and testimony regarding the witnessing of the Oct 13th miracle are taken from the book "The Whole Truth About Fatima, volume I," chapter 10:
www.catholicvoice.co.uk...

noted by Dr. Pereira Gens:
"It continues to rain so strongly that in spite of our umbrellas, nobody has a stitch of dry clothing left... The rain suddenly stops, the clouds split open, and the sun is visible in all its splendour. Our clothes are wet and our bodies cold; I still remember the delicious sensation that this warm caress of the sun gave me...Although it is true that the luminosity of the sun was diminished, its warmth lost none of its power. I feel my clothes almost dry now, although they were all wet only a few moments ago."


The testimony of Father Inacio Lourenco, in a nearby village at the time of the miracle, 12 miles from the Fatima site, as he recounts:
"I was only nine years old at this time, and I went to the local village school...At about midday we were surprised by the shouts and cries of some men and women who were passing in the street in front of the school. The teacher, a good, pious woman, though nervous and impressionable, was the first to run into the road, with the children after her. Outside, the people were shouting and weeping and pointing to the sun, ignoring the questions of the schoolmistress. It was the great miracle, which one could see quite distinctly from the top of the hill where my village was situated...I feel incapable of describing what I saw and felt. I looked fixedly at the sun, which seemed pale and did not hurt the eyes. Looking like a ball of snow revolving upon itself, it suddenly seemed to come down in a zigzag, menacing the earth. Terrified, I ran and hid myself among the people, who were weeping and expecting the end of the world at any moment. During those long moments of the solar prodigy, objects around us turned all the colours of the rainbow...»

the testimony of the Baron of Alvaiazere:
"Having come to Fatima, purely for a diversion, considering everything I had heard on the apparitions to be just a joke, I met several friends there. I began making comments on the events in an ironic tone to the point where I antagonized several of them who thought otherwise. I was prepared to keep an open mind, regardless of what happened. I recalled this principle of Gustave Le Bon, which says that the individual influenced by a group cannot escape the hypnotic current that dominates it. And I took precautions not to let myself be influenced. In this state of mind, I witnessed the solar phenomenon. I only know that I shouted: “I believe! I believe! I believe!" and that tears fell from my eyes. I was in a state of wonder, in ecstasy before this manifestation of the Divine Power."




[edit on 21-12-2009 by Phantomfire707]

There have never been miracles of the level you described. Some people have overblown expectations, but if you look with eyes that truly see miracles happen every day all around you.

And I'm serious about this by the way, show me where fertile soil overnight become rich with crops, or gold rained from the sky, the most blatant miracle I can think of is the spontaneous parting of the red sea. Im pretty sure freakish things happen in nature all the time.

[edit on 22-12-2009 by gYvMessanger]

The dead are being raised, the blind are receiving sight and people are being cured of all sorts of afflictions. So outstanding miracles are still occurring, wherever genuine christians practice their faith. In fact by all accounts miracles are on the rise!

In fact I just got a report from a woman who holds a regular Bible study in Oregon that a blind homeless man received his sight recently after prayer. I have been in street outreaches where the dead were raised and have personally been involved in an exorcism.

www.megashiftministries.org...

You don't hear about it much in the jaded West because there is very little authentic christianity in the dead churches of the west. In fact only 9% of Americans have a Biblical worldview, even though more than 80% claim to be christians and America is claimed to be a bastion of fundamentalist christianity!

reply to post by Level X




YOu are asking for something that is superficial, sir.

Originally posted by Phantomfire707
Miracle of Fatima, is one possibility:

*********
October 13th. Day of the Miracle.
see wikipedia article regarding the Miracle:....en.wikipedia.org...


see chapter 10 online, regarding the miracle of the Sun from the book "The Whole Truth About Fatima" at => www.catholicvoice.co.uk...
Avelino de Almeida, Editor in Chief of O Seculo, wrote in O Seculo: "the sun made unusual and brusque movements, defying all the laws of the cosmos, and according to the typical expression of the peasants, 'the sun danced'"

Thank you sir for your post. Yes the miracle of Fatima can be considered a fine example of a relatively current morden day miracle. There are many speculations on this however... But, can this be considered a miracle on a grand supernatural scale?... and why so few to be varified by the masses? Why are this miracles so personal when the bible states otherwise. "For all to behold" If the people in the world trade had all waked out alive after it collapsed... now we are in miracle territory.

reply to post by Level X


Yes, miracles have stopped.

That is because mankind has failed. We were asked a few simple things, but we were unable to do them.

Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
reply to post by Level X

 

YOu are asking for something that is superficial, sir.

Yes, now you see the delima... because they are claimed to be otherwise or offical.
Superficial + Superficial does not = a substanciated miracle.

Originally posted by TaraLou
reply to post by Level X

 

Yes, miracles have stopped.

That is because mankind has failed. We were asked a few simple things, but we were unable to do them.

Your answer was simple and to the point... They have stopped! Most posters can't get or are in total denile of the simple of it. But don't you think it is strange that all these profound acts of God are only in the Bible?

Only the fool says in his heart , there is no God

Ask around about 16/7/94 .... what were you doing ?...

reply to post by Level X


Thanks, Level,

I think the Bible is not to be relied upon, because it was written by a lot of men.

All you can rely on is Jesus - that is my belief.