The Frightening Rise Of Christian Persecution

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by moocowman

 

?? moocow, what in the sam hill?
where do you live on the planet, if you don't mind me asking?

Hey dude how goes , was that a rhetorical question ?

reply to post by undo

i'm getting angry! this is not good! i don't want to pull out the heavy artillery,

Go on I'm curious as to what you would call heavy artillery.

reply to post by moocowman


you know what i've told you before, unless you also believe women deserve to die, no matter what religion they are, simply because they upset men. be careful here, moo. i'm not stupid. i may be a bit odd, sometimes forgetful, but i'm not stupid.

reply to post by The time lord


Quite honestly, the track record of the Christian faith is not all that good. Look at what they did to the Pagans during the Roman times. I mean sheesh, if I lived back then, I would either have to convert or die. What about the ones that are blowing up abortion clinics in "The Name of God?" Yeah, you can make the claim that there are extremists in every religion (and there indeed are), but it still doesn't make up for the fact that the Christian faith has had a very dirty history with many skeletons in its closet. I have nothing against Christians, but what I do have a problem with is their blatant intolerance of other religions and people in general. Jesus preached tolerance of your fellow man, acceptance, and love. What he did NOT say was to kill others in his name, to blow up abortion clinics in his name, to START WARS in his name, or any number of other atrocities. The Christians out there that would rather be intolerant than accepting should take a deep hard look into themselves and wonder if they are truly being "Christ-Like."

And honestly, it's their turn anyhow. The rest of us have already been tortured, killed, etc. in Jesus'/God's name so the Christian faith is just reaping the benefits of bad karmic balance.

reply to post by truthseeker1984


um, hello? pagan empires were also famously militaristic and or known to go on murdering rampages. this is not isolated to any religion. it's a human condition. human condition. it's a human CONDITION.

say it with me one more time.........

so the Christian faith is just reaping the benefits of bad karmic balance.

Oh and what if i become agnostic five minutes from now ? AM i suddenly karmically exonerated? You realize how ludicrous that is? I become guilty of stuff i never did because of something someone did Lord knows where and when, either because of my gender, my skin color or my religion. Next it'll be because i put one shoe on before the other! I mean SERIOUSLY!

[edit on 2-2-2010 by undo]

wait wait, i was a christian for 5 minutes, so i must pay 5 minutes of karmic reparations! oh! no problem there! been there, done that, have the wounds to prove it! now what?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! how long does karmic guilt last? and to what severity? when do you actually get to believe what you want, without having to carry around the baggage of any problem on the planet that has ever transpired?!

you a guy? Guys have hurt women! karmic guilt !

wanna pay it? why the heck not? i know why!

CAUSE IT'S WRONG TO BLAME PEOPLE FOR THINGS THEY DIDN'T DO!

surely you know this?

The rest of us have already been tortured, killed, etc.

who the heck is the rest of us? they killed other christians too, ya know? or don't you pay attention to that part ? sorta skip over the parts that like blow your crazy idea of karma, right out the flippin' window

reply to post by undo


Well it looks like my post really pushed your buttons. For that I apologize, and in hindsight, I should have worded it better. Yes, you are absolutely correct, Christians killed other Christians, Pagans killed Christians, Christians killed Pagans, but what it doesn't excuse are those in the religion of this topic who still go out of there way to attack homosexuals, pagans, abortion doctors, etc. What about the people that kill their children because God told them to do it? I mean there are so many variables and so many different types of extremists (and not just in the Christian religion), that it would be hard to have everybody come to a unified consensus, which, I guess, is the reason for me even responding to this threat. It sickens me to think that one man who had very good intentions and a very good message could be polluted to the point where people kill in his name. That is what makes me sick, not the Christians out there that are tolerant of other religions, homosexuals, and whatever else Christianity is supposed to be against. If everybody were tolerant of everybody else, we wouldn't even be having this discussion, but we are, and that's where I stand on the issue, and until the televangelists and those of high authority both monetarily and politically (although they do go hand in hand nowadays) are wiped out and we all start back at zero and just get along, we are all screwed.


"Can't we all just get along?"

reply to post by truthseeker1984


in a karmic circle sort of way, wishing monetary disaster on your enemies is not exactly good either, is it? where's it end if not with us? and for every person that kills an abortion doctor, there are millions that don't. but let's pay attention to that one that does?

never shot an abortion doctor. never considered shooting an abortion doctor. revenge is mine, saith the lord. i actually take that to mean he reserves the right to exact revenge, cause we're not omnipresent beings atm.

As for Karma if people want to become Hindu and Buddhists people, if there are Gods out there in the Karma region the best way to announce it is to say Christianity and Judaism is false so you can share that Karma you been keeping all to your self’s in secret, make the world a better place instead of watching the ride.

As for God of Christianity there is a relationship going on, if believers stray away their society crumbles, for the Jews even with evidence in the Old Testament stories, once they stray and way and do evil God does not hold back their enemies any longer, WW2 was exactly the same story, another evil force came along.

In these modern times the Churches do not have a problem letting in the homeless or people of other faiths to come a visit it, where as some religions you have to take your shoes off before you even allowed in and cover your women up.

No religion has been innocent as a whole but some are more innocent than others, but its a lot better than what the dictators of the their nations treated their people like over the thousands of years at least it stops complete self annihilation and genocides that come with every attempt that one tries to govern his fellow humans, I say Christianity has a better track record than non spiritual rule systems in the past history. Wars do happen but the end message of the Bible is not about making war but guiding people to be good to one another, if for example all anarchy broke out and your country was isolated with no government to rebuild the nation would you want a one man show dictator telling you how to do it right for you, or sharia law or some communist? Maybe Christianity as we know it today would suit you better as a starting point, Christianity and democracy works, the Germans do it, the Italians do it with their Catholic religion. Other systems that can not work democracy mix it in the same pot are communism and religion and any Islamic Laws with other faiths as equals but you can with Christianity. Now have system that bans all religions and Christianity and what do you call it? Since the case of Democracy is left open then so is the will of keeping the Christian values and faith by population demands, otherwise the whole thing is Babylon, small pockets of tribes where its one rule in one area for one lot of people and another rule for another where the whole show is not unity but division and the whole ball of civil war starts over again and there are patterns all around the world to show how two different cultures clash once one catches up the other in populance.

It is also a sad fact that Satanism is also taking shape in Europe, this includes suicides of teenages, killings within the group, burning of Churches again and another group who are gaining freedoms even if they pronounce their Satanic religion openly. In the American army there was a case to bring to court someone who said the name Jesus out loud but of course case has now been resolved with common sense but they allowed an openly proud Satanist to do their worship, I wonder what that involves.

If the rapture is anytime soon you have 7 years between you and the devil to sort out this world, so good luck.



[edit on 2-2-2010 by The time lord]

reply to post by undo


Did I not just say that there are extremists in every religion? Unfortunately, it only takes one rotten, bug-infested apple in a bunch to ruin the entire harvest.

As far as karmic balance, I believe the universe corrects and balances itself out over time. And I never did I say that I "wished" that these people in power and monetary influence would just die. I simply stated that until they do we are all screwed.

And really, I don't care, as I'm broke, just like a lot of other people in the world are, and maybe it would be better if these bad apples would just disappear. I know that I am a good person, and I know that I do good deeds, pay my taxes, etc. My karma is unchanged neither for good nor bad. The gray area is quite a nice place to be in.

But unfortunately, I think all of these arguments are for naught anyway, as none of us "really" knows what is going to happen, because, as you said, we are not omnipresent.


EDIT: and by the way, I'm done replying to this thread, because we could spin this debate on until the end of time, and there's no use arguing over it. Agreeing to disagree would be the best thing to do right now.

[edit on 2-2-2010 by truthseeker1984]

reply to post by truthseeker1984


if it takes one bad person to ruin the whole lot, then the entire planet is doomed, karmically and otherwise.

reply to post by The time lord


While I do have a prolem with extreme right wing Christians, (as well as other extreme religions), whats been happening around the world, for the most part in Muslim nations, concerning Christians scares me to death.

Perhaps it's just because Christianity and Judism are much older then Islam, and have had more time to "mellow". The openess and democratic traditions of the west just don't apply to Islam. I know there are Muslims who are peacefull, but are also frightend to death to speak out against radical Muslims. For Muslims to convice the west Islam is a religion of peace, (it's hard to find the peacefull parts in the Koran), then all Muslims must rise up against violence and extremism. But I'm not holding my breath. (as always please forgive spelling).

There are thoughs who persecute out of spite and intolerance and there are thoughs who have kept the basic structure in nations through God's words and who slowly eroded the principles and morals to their own destruction. This is what I feel is going on now in the Christian Karma sense of the balance, as Christian Nations we are a more free and happy and rich as a people compared to the rest of the world. But since this karma relationship with God withers I feel it only brings your enemies closer to home and there is a pattern to all this I feel. If illegal immigration and terrorists come to your land or who challenge your freedoms or come in with the back door open and politicians are letting it happen passively then maybe God blinds their thoughts in power who don't do enough, society then wakes up and puts pressure back onto them or someone is recruited to power again to sort out the problems if not challenge the people of the nation. I feel like there is a hidden spiritual eco system in how it all works and the Bible has many stories in how these patterns repeat them self with mans relationship with God.

Maybe China is quite happy without religion but they will ban people from having an opinion, they don't like the internet either.

Maybe there are millions of Muslims who don't like Islamic Laws but want freedoms but they are too scared to come out.

How do you balance it out without banning a belief system and turning into a facist?

www.albatrus.org...

God’s Word calls for national repentance and a return to His Word. In the Book of Judges, we saw how God sent judges to Israel. Israel repented, and there were small revivals. But there were also judgments. When a nation rejects God and His Word for them as a people, then God either sends men and women of God to revive them, or He sends cruel tyrants to judge them. Since America has cashed in its Righteous Republic for a mess of democratic humanism and religious pluralism, it can be assured that God will send it either revival or judgment.
Text

[edit on 3-2-2010 by The time lord]

[edit on 3-2-2010 by The time lord]

It is also a sad fact that Satanism is also taking shape in Europe, this includes suicides of teenages, killings within the group, burning of Churches again and another group who are gaining freedoms even if they pronounce their Satanic religion openly. In the American army there was a case to bring to court someone who said the name Jesus out loud but of course case has now been resolved with common sense but they allowed an openly proud Satanist to do their worship, I wonder what that involves.

Satan only exists in the minds and teachings of Christians, and as such is a branch of Christianity in the same way as Catholic, Baptist, Amish, Christian Scientist, Evangelical, Presbyterian etc.

Persecution of Christians began due to intolerance. The intolerance that Christians showed to all other religions and the Roman society. The Romans were actually quite tolerant of all religions, and religions from lands they conquered were adopted into Roman society. Unfortunately, the early Christians felt that their particular faith was bigger than Roman society, and actively thumbed their noses at the state. They were not persecuted for their religion, but for their refusal to play by the rules of the society in which they lived.

That's my biggest peeve with modern Christianity. There's no room for adapting to modern society. Basing the laws and government of any land on a book of stories and fables from the ancient world - where society, belief, science, and superstition were immensely different from today - is completely unacceptable. As I mentioned before, religion does not have the exclusive on values, morals and common sense. To my mind, it's quite the opposite.

For those who have faith, and choose to live in a "Christ-like" manner, I wish you all the best. Just don't try to influence my way of life based on your adherence to neolithic superstition. That goes for all sects, cults, and 'established' religions.

reply to post by Badgered1


you'd be surprised then to know, that outside a few isolated examples, most of the ancient world, such as ancient egypt, greece and parts of the far east, were into bestality, pedorasty, pedophilia, necrophilia, and so on, most things we have laws against today. do you see them as not bad things afterall? if so, why? if not, why not? western society is based on the mores and values of the hebrews, which have been tailored over the years to accomodate the changes in hemlines and so forth, but overall, your set of moral values is most likely just a later version of the same people and concepts you sit in judgement of now.

[edit on 3-2-2010 by undo]

Originally posted by undo
note auto completely ignored my evidence? that's cause it's even older than gilgamesh

gilgamesh was post flood, late akkadian.

I didn't ignore your evidence, undo, just didn't include it in my post. Who's to know exactly which came first? We will never know for certain what most of the ancient texts said, for they were destroyed. (for being written by Pagans) What man has tried to do is take a few old documents and a few old stories and weave it all into a religion, something humanity would be a lot better off without, IMHO. Unless man/womankind leave religion and dogma behind them, and stop waiting on a saviour to come save them and punish everyone else for not being like them, this world will never see peace. Religions wave their God about like a banner, telling everyone that will listen that theirs is the right God, while yours is the Devil, while all of these lessor gods are nothing but aliens masquerading as gods, and infighting among themselves is what made us like that.

As for the Bible and the Koran, both can be used to prove, or to disprove, most anything. It's all in how you read it, and your understanding of what the words mean.
Until humanity begins to take better care of their planet, and stops fighting and killing each other, Earth will never evolve, and never enter the Galactic community.
This thread, like any other religious thread, has turned into a battle between Bible believers and non Christians.

reply to post by undo


You forgot cannibalism...

reply to post by Selahobed


This is also supported by Islamic philosophy.

I found some info here but I haven't fully read it.

www.welcome-back.org...

In general, if you seek to find the truth, God, heaven then BE prepared for great hardship.

In some cultures, when people did not experience this hardship they used to wonder whether 'God had forgotten about them'.