The Frightening Rise Of Christian Persecution, page 19
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reply posted on 4-2-2010 @ 10:28 AM by undo
reply to post by autowrench


sumer wasn't found till about 100 years ago, so i don't think the official holy roman empire had time to modify it. too many other hands in the pot by then. we're talking at least 2 centuries after the enlightenment. also, the stories are similar but not identical, and the areas where they deviate from each other are verrrry interesting.

[edit on 4-2-2010 by undo]


reply posted on 4-2-2010 @ 10:50 AM by A Fortiori
Originally posted by truthseeker1984
reply to post by The time lord


Quite honestly, the track record of the Christian faith is not all that good. Look at what they did to the Pagans during the Roman times.


Considering that it was pagan Romans who usurped what was pretty much a world-renouncing pacifistic cult and turned it into an organized, efficient machine (gotta love the Romans), I would say that it was pagan culture that owes the early Christians an apology.

I mean sheesh, if I lived back then, I would either have to convert or die.


During the Roman empire you would not have had to "convert or die". Romans cared about stabilizing regions, absorbing natural resources and wealth, and spreading efficiency so that trade could prosper. Tax paying pagans existed throughout the Roman empire--even under the Christian emperors. Religion had nothing to do with whether you lived or died under Rome.

What about the ones that are blowing up abortion clinics in "The Name of God?"
I could pull the stats and its less than the amount of shark attacks each summer in Florida. Would you have us go shark hunting?

Yeah, you can make the claim that there are extremists in every religion (and there indeed are), but it still doesn't make up for the fact that the Christian faith has had a very dirty history with many skeletons in its closet.


Holocaust scholars went back and pulled the numbers and in the three hundred year period of both the Medieval and the Spanish Inquisition less than 5,000 people were killed. Thousands were "burnt in effigy" (meaning wooden statues). Most were under canonical penance, excommunicated, or--if you were a Templar, tortured. Even one innocent death is wrong, but I feel it is important to not exaggerate numbers.

Most wild numbers include death totals from the crusades which were wars fought for land. Muslims conquered the region. Christians tried to take it back. That's kind of what you call a "fair fight".

That said, considering that Jesus was a pacifist, it was also very un-Christlike.

I have nothing against Christians, but what I do have a problem with is their blatant intolerance of other religions and people in general.


If you don't know know all Christians than you can't speak for "their blatant intolerance" without partaking of the Eucharist of intolerance yourself.

Jesus preached tolerance of your fellow man, acceptance, and love. What he did NOT say was to kill others in his name, to blow up abortion clinics in his name, to START WARS in his name, or any number of other atrocities.


Amen.

The Christians out there that would rather be intolerant than accepting should take a deep hard look into themselves and wonder if they are truly being "Christ-Like."


You are generalizing. I am a pacifist, don't believe in bombing anyone, or gassing anyone, or any life-neutralizing efforts. I don't hate homosexuals. Love them, in fact. I love Muslims, Buddhists, atheists, Moocowmanists... I'm a love bug, and you're slapping a label on me.

And honestly, it's their turn anyhow.


That's rather ugly. It should never be anyone's turn.

The rest of us have already been tortured, killed, etc.


You, Sir, are a medical miracle. To be dead and posting on a forum. Amazing.

so the Christian faith is just reaping the benefits of bad karmic balance.


No, they are reaping the benefits of a world looking to place the blame for all of societal ills that are bred from the Maslowian principles of needs on religion rather than look to their own inequities and predilection for violence. Communist China has the responsibility for the deaths of millions of girl children and political prisoners. Did religion have anything to do with that? No.

People have always killed, harmed, and hurt others so that they might have more. It is quite easy to pass the blame off on religion when really religion, politics, philosophy etc is just a cover for the desires that are embedded in our own dark hearts.


reply posted on 4-2-2010 @ 11:10 AM by concernedcitizan
The basic components of neo-Jewish belief are as follows: there exists a physical world of injustice and natural selection as well as a world of pure forms, represented by Heaven and God, in which moral right takes precedence over inherent physical abilities including intelligence. In this world, all individuals were equally important to God regardless of their past behavior or limited abilities. Those who act in the physical world as if in accord with the spiritual world will be rewarded after this life is over. In doing this, Jesus essentially transplanted Jewish materialism into an idealized Platonic sphere that unlike Plato's conception was seen as a physical place, a second world; it is for this reason many refer to neo-Judaism as materialist dualism, or to be polite, "absolute idealism."

Where Pagan/Hindu religions were of a cosmic idealist nature, meaning that they recognized physical suffering in the world as something to be overcome by "transcendence" or recognition of a higher Idea or organizing principle, neo-Judaism posited that the only higher Idea was better treatment of our material selves -- individuals. As such, it became radically popular and today is one of the world's leading religions, responsible for wars, the burning of libraries, the killing of heretics, and passive legal action against all those who disagree with its denial of the inherent logic of the physical world.

Read Meister Eckhart:"...true poverty of spirit consists in keeping oneself so free of God and of all God's works that if God wants to act in the soul, God himself becomes the place wherein he wants to act – and this God likes to do. For when God finds a person as poor as this, God operates his own work and a person sustains God in him, and God is himself the place of his operation, since God is an agent who acts within himself. Here, in this poverty, people attain the eternal being that they are were, now are, and will eternally remain."

In the stead of this noble man and his higher character, we have clever preachers who abuse the church for the advancement of their ego or for their overseas accounts; and we have simple but stupid preachers who base their pedagogy completely off of the literal words of the Bible, not bothering with any of the religious insight that made their precedent Orders what they were.


reply posted on 4-2-2010 @ 11:49 AM by The time lord
I really don't like arguing so call it expansion of opinions and views.

I know there Romans had a quite good system with many inventions being made and being able to build cities and a society. The problem was not the Romans them self’s but the fact they were on Holy Land, throughout scripture this has always been the case with the Jews, The Greeks, the Persians, Babylonians and Egyptians and the Philistines who have all tried to take the land away when the Jews needing it as a safe haven in which God made for them away from persecution and Holy relationship with him. This same story applies today with Arab bloodlines claiming it theirs and wanting to drive the Jews back out.

It could not be any more obvious in what is going on around this part of the world, nowhere in history does prophecy fit today’s generation or circumstances, their enemies are once again predicted as end time nations against them that for many years have been sleeping giants until the stage was set and by their own ideologies they have hated Israel because long ago someone said they should go to hell. No other religious system or government has a manual stating kill the Jews, otherwise China and Korea or somewhere random like Brazil would even care about them reclaiming Israel as a desolate land.

They have one path to fulfil which is to recognise God again and stick up for their land, they need to according to Christian prophecy accept the Christ but that will happen once the world experiences plagues and war which they will be in the middle of. But of course another religion has the opposite prophecies some say the counterfeits where Jesus will come back to kill the Jews, so either way Christian prophecy fits like a glove over another religions claim.

The beats are building up to it all the time the pressure is mounting, so many more possibilities are opened in which an apocalyptic future will happen, I don't think Christians want it to happen but are here to warn of it, afraid to say there are some tyrants who unknowingly want this to happen, Iran it seems is the last chest piece because of their strong Islamic prophetic views in contrast to Bible prophecy.


reply posted on 30-3-2010 @ 02:42 PM by The time lord
News Alert:
Christian persecution pandemic arises because it is disrespectful to others in its teaching that Christ died for our sins and was persecuted for it. So keep it quiet or you will be persecuted. So don't be intolerent to their need to kill Christians.
(sarcasm)


LAHORE, PAKISTAN (Worthy News)-- Police in Pakistan's province of Punjab have launched an investigation into reports that Muslim extremists killed a Christian for refusing to convert to Christianity. It comes at a time when Christians in the region are also prosecuted for alleged blasphemy against Islam.

The reported murder came shortly before another Christian man, Arshed Masih, was burned Friday, March 19, in the city of Rawalpindi by Muslim hardliners for refusing to convert to Islam, hospital and law enforcement officials said.
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They want to get rid of that Christian barbaric society because their ideology is world renowned..

MOGADISHU, SOMALIA (Worthy News)-- Somalia's feared Islamic militant group al-Shabab has warned Christians and other residents that it will crackdown on "non-Islamic culture" across the country, after its fighters reportedly killed another Christian leader and destroyed a tomb of a apparently moderate Muslim cleric.

"We aim to get rid of the barbaric and non-Islamic culture in the country," said Shebab official Sheik Ali Husein in published remarks monitored by Worthy News Wednesday, March 24.

He spoke just days after al-Shabab fighters reportedly shot and killed Madobe Abdi, the leader of an underground church in Mahaday village. His home was burned and destroyed, Christians said.

Several Christians have been killed in recent months and years in Somalia by al-Shabab fighters, including people leading churches or carrying Bibles and women refusing to wear a veil.
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This will be Great Britain and Europe in a few years time because you let it happen, I believe this will be the next phrase of broken Britain.

Pakistan Funeral For Burned Christian
Wednesday, March 24, 2010 (1:07 am)
By Worthy News Asia Service reporting from Pakistan

RAWALPINDI, PAKISTAN (Worthy News)-- Hundreds of people attended the funeral Wednesday, March 24, of a young Christian man who was allegedly burned by Muslim extremists and police officers for refusing to convert to Islam.

Arshed Masih, 38, was burned Friday, March 19, in front of a police station in Rawalpindi, Police Superintendent Moin Shah told Worthy News and its partner agency BosNewsLife. His wife Martha Masih, 33, was raped by possibly three police officers in the police station, where the couple had been held for questioning, he added.

Their children, ranging in ages from 7 to 12, were allegedly forced to watch the attacks.

Shah said the police officers were suspended Tuesday, pending an investigation into their involvement in the burning and rape incidents.
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Soon India and Pakistan will rid of all Christian believers as they are so out numbered anyway, that is the dividing line of countries.

Over 1,000 Anti-Christian Attacks In Indian State, report
March 22, 2010
An official of one of India's largest evangelical umbrella groups says his organization recorded over 1,000 anti-Christians attacks in 500 days in the Indian state of Karnataka and that the number is growing "by the day."
largest evangelical umbrella groups says his organization recorded over 1,000 anti-Christian attacks in 500 days in the southern Indian state of Karnataka and that the number is growing "by the day".
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[/quote



It is like a world zombie pandemic to kill the Christains they are no where for them to go, so let Europe take their crosses down and stop prayers in schools so that we go down to this level society because we are halfway there already.

Wednesday, March 17, 2010 (11:13 am)
By Worthy News Africa Service

ABUJA, NIGERIA (Worthy News)-- A group of Muslim herdsmen disguised as soldiers "butchered" and then burned over a dozen Christians Wednesday, March 17, in a small Christian village in central Nigeria, near the location where hundreds were killed last week, witnesses and officials said.

The attackers were also seen cutting out most of the victims' tongues, in the latest violence in a region where religious fighting already has seen several massacres this year, news agencies reported.
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This will happen to the English speaking part of the world if political correctness does not wake up.

Pakistan Couple, Man, Jailed For Blasphemy
Thursday, March 11, 2010 (3:43 pm)
LAHORE/KASUR (Worthy News)-- A Christian couple, were detained Thursday, March 11, as they began serving a 25-year prison term for blasphemy against Islam shortly after another Christian received a similar sentence, the latest in a series of cases that have worried the human rights community.

Ruqqiya Bibi and her husband Munir Masih were sentenced last week under Section 295-B of the Pakistan Penal Code for "defiling" the Koran, deemed a holy book by Muslims, because they allegedly touched it without ritually washing their hands, the independent Center Legal Aid Assistance and Settlement (CLAAS) told Worthy News and its news partner BosNewsLife.
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So if Iran gains their long range missiles I am sure they won't use them on Denmark for their cartoons, but I guess Israel is nearer if they offend again.

NEWS ALERT: Tortured Iran Pastor Facing Execution, Christians say
March 9, 2010
The detained Assyrian pastor of an evangelical church in Iran has been tortured and told he may be executed for converting Muslims to Christianity and related charges, his wife and Christians with close knowledge about his situation said.

"DEATH SENTENCE"

Nazanin was reportedly told by prison authorities that her husband is accused of "performing baptism" and "converting Muslims to Christianity" and is "awaiting his trial and his death sentence".

His detention came as news emerged that on February 28, security forces also raided the house of Hamid Shafiee and his wife, Reyhaneh Aghajari, two of Isfahan's known house-church leaders.

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Ethiopia Detains Bible Distributor On “Terrorism” Charges
Friday, February 19, 2010 (3:54 am)
By Worthy News Africa Service

ADDIS ABABA, ETHIOPIA (Worthy News)-- There was concern Friday, February 19, that Ethiopian authorities would press "terrorism" charges against a Christian convert who has been detained since May for distributing Bibles and abandoning Islam, well-informed Christians said.

Bashir Musa Ahmed, 39, was was reportedly arrested and jailed May 23, 2009 for "malicious" distribution of Bibles in Jijiga, the capital of Ethiopia’s Somali Region Zone Five, a predominantly Muslim area in eastern Ethiopia.

Christian observers with close knowledge about his situation said however he has not been formally charged.

Ethiopian law protects religious freedom, but officials have suggested that the Bibles, with covers that resemble Islam's book the Koran, may violate copyright legislation and may have been "disrespectful" to Islam.
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I leave it there because there are too many silly stories that are hard to believe, it is a sad world for the Christians right now, if we lose the right to Christianity in America and Europe we will be down the path of these similar societies.


reply posted on 30-3-2010 @ 02:52 PM by trueperspective
reply to post by The time lord


I have learned that if you aren't offending some by talking about Christianity, then you probably aren't talking about Christianity. It is offensive to know that you are codemned already and that you are going straight to Hell unless you submit yourself to God.

But at the same time. It is the most beautiful thing to be forgiven and free. It is Parodoxical


reply posted on 30-3-2010 @ 03:14 PM by piedsniper
reply to post by The time lord




Just consider the titles of a few recent New York Times bestsellers..... *"God is Not Great: Why Religion Poisons Everything" by journalist Christopher Hitchens. *"The End of Faith" by atheist author Sam Harris. *"The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins. But this anti-Christian sentiment is just not held by a few elitists. The reality is that it has spread to much of the general populati


Have you taken the trouble to read these books, or do you conclude their are anti christian because someone else (who probably hasn't taken the trouble to read them) told you so ?


reply posted on 30-3-2010 @ 03:19 PM by trueperspective
reply to post by piedsniper


I have read god is not Great twice. So, I guess I get to tell you that it is filled with some of the most hate speech I have ever read. I guess the title would say enough, but since you asked.


reply posted on 30-3-2010 @ 05:35 PM by piedsniper
Originally posted by trueperspective
reply to post by piedsniper


I have read god is not Great twice. So, I guess I get to tell you that it is filled with some of the most hate speech I have ever read. I guess the title would say enough, but since you asked.


Hm, I'm surprised you managed to find hate speech in Hitchins work to be honest I didn't detect any hatespeech but your obviously entitled to your opinion.

Any particular references you found particularly hateful in the book ? Did you ever consider discussing your opinion with the author ? as by all accounts he's pretty agreeable .


reply posted on 30-3-2010 @ 05:35 PM by The time lord
Hell is a place of torment I guess there is no mention of fire as you can imagine from all those movies and pictures.

I may say that the lake of Fire and hell could be two different things.

2 Peter 2:4

For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment;

Text


Luke 16
The Parable of the Shrewd Manager
22"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23In hell,[c] where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'
Text


2 Peter 2:3-5 (New International Version)


3In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.

4For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell,[a] putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment; 5if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others;

Text


So hades ad Hell are thrown into the lake of fire.

Revelation 20:14
Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

Text




reply posted on 30-3-2010 @ 07:45 PM by piedsniper
reply to post by The time lord




Hell is a place of torment


Hell is an imaginary place that only exists in the imagination and a construct of the scribes of the new testament and expounded on by the RCC to keep people in fear of their god.

Study the old testament hell simply didn't exist, are trying to claim that when yahweh changed his name to jesus he invented hell for those that didn't like his new persona ?

Or perhaps when yawhe having changed his name to jesus then had himself killed and came alive again with yet another physical identity he then invented hell for those who wouldn't beleive he had come back to life ?


reply posted on 30-3-2010 @ 08:03 PM by trueperspective
Originally posted by piedsniper
Originally posted by trueperspective
reply to post by piedsniper


I have read god is not Great twice. So, I guess I get to tell you that it is filled with some of the most hate speech I have ever read. I guess the title would say enough, but since you asked.


Hm, I'm surprised you managed to find hate speech in Hitchins work to be honest I didn't detect any hatespeech but your obviously entitled to your opinion.

Any particular references you found particularly hateful in the book ? Did you ever consider discussing your opinion with the author ? as by all accounts he's pretty agreeable .


Sure, The part when He completly misrepresented the act of circumsion done by rabbi's. He turned it into a sick perverted sexual act, which it is not. He shows his affinity to hatred in his twisting of religion. That is probably the worst example, but I wrote two critical reviews of the book...if I could only find them...

[edit on 30-3-2010 by trueperspective]


reply posted on 30-3-2010 @ 09:08 PM by piedsniper
reply to post by trueperspective




Sure, The part when He completly misrepresented the act of circumsion done by rabbi's. He turned it into a sick perverted sexual act, which it is not


??? What ? Let's put this to the test eh ? I will phone the local police station tomorrow and ask them how they would react if an invisible man in the sky told me to take a sharp instrument to my child's, genitalia and remove pieces of it !!!!!!!




reply posted on 23-2-2012 @ 04:45 PM by autowrench
Originally posted by trueperspective
reply to post by The time lord


I have learned that if you aren't offending some by talking about Christianity, then you probably aren't talking about Christianity. It is offensive to know that you are codemned already and that you are going straight to Hell unless you submit yourself to God.

But at the same time. It is the most beautiful thing to be forgiven and free. It is Parodoxical

Hear, Hear! So true, any investigation into Christian tenets, dogma, history, or doctrine gets one a very quick sentence to a place they invented, as if that will really scare anyone anymore. Having researched the God of the Bible, I do not think I will provide him with any energy, or blood, and believe me, he seems thirsty for blood, just read the OT if you doubt me.
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