Population Control: Do we really have a choice?

reply to post by JaxonRoberts


Dear JaxonRoberts

From JaxonRoberts

“Why do we have such a high population now??



For some (the religious), it's there God given right and duty to "be fruitful and multiply", as well as their stance against birth control and abortion rights for those who do not wish to have children. For others it's a lack of responsible thinking, forgoing birth control and just letting the chips fall where they may. I find it hard not to vomit in my mouth every time I hear the phrase "My Baby Mama", and it now crosses all racial barriers...”

I put it down to Fleming and penicillin.

Not even the lack of any real war since the mid forties covers anything like the effect antibiotics have made.

The Chinese have a policy of one child per couple no matter what happens to the child. Rather than abort a second child or even kill it as it is being born I would sterilize the mother after the first birth. Let’s see who will scream at that one.

I look at those pictures and I see inefficiency. We need to revise our buildings. We are building them basically the same way but we've entered a technological age and we haven't made much advancements towards merging that with nature in a harmless, beautiful way..

I could see sterilizing certain people like criminals or politicians no real difference. All the rest however just need to grow the hell up and get with the program.Have kids don't have kids whatever. Just leave us rational few out of the moronic thoughts of insipid politicians and tree huggers.

I have little time to respond, but I wanted to point out that in a very small biosphere (from the ground to the height of an average ceiling), humans, statistically speaking, do not exist on this planet.

Making judgments of "population density" based on pictures of a highly populated area and then expanding them planet-wide is a bit... Well, silly, really.

Also, in countries where women have control over their own bodies, population growth has slowed greatly, and in some cases has gone negative.

The "overpopulation" myth has been promulgated to give the evil ones, looking for ways to justify additional control, the public positive response they need.

[sigh]

We could put twice, or three times the present population on this planet and not suffer - IF we could wrest Zero Point Energy ("Dark" Energy extraction) from its secret place. Pollution would drop, and we would be free.

But that is another topic (linked in my sig...)

[edit on 12/17/2009 by Amaterasu]

It's really interesting to read this post because i made the same post a while ago. The OP's post seems to have been met with acceptance by the majority (so far) and mine was met with utter hostility. I think this shows a shift in peoples understanding of the situation that the human race is in.

My original thread below

Population Control Is Logical And Needed

Originally posted by whaaa
Eventually, if it hasn't happened already, a virus will be developed that attacks people with dark skin or a particular genetic trait. They will get sick and die and there will be plenty of resources left for the master race.

This has already happened, there was even a scientist who was willing to testify in detail to all of this if he would be granted immunity/amnesty for crimes had had committed while working on ultra top secret black projects in bio-warfare. He mentioned the ethics of what the US Government was doing, how it was testing on humans and how they were developing "Genocide Viruses" that could wipe out 1 person or entire races of people.

I was willing to testify to a closed door committee to bring these violations to light in hopes of ending such forms of research.

I read 1 article about it and then not only did that article vanish, but I never heard any followups.

This whole charade has been planned since at least 1945. And this is from PUBLIC documents, you can only imagine what they are keeping private.

www.harmlesswise.com...

Julian Huxley (1887-1975) | First director of UNESCO

Brother of Aldous.

"Political unification in some sort of world government will be required... Even though... any radical eugenic policy will be for many years politically and psychologically impossible, it will be important for UNESCO to see that the eugenic problem is examined with the greatest care, and that the public mind is informed of the issues at stake so that much that now is unthinkable may at least become thinkable."

Taken from UNESCO: Its Purpose and Its Philosophy. Having come just one year after that appalling instance of widespread eugenics in the 3rd Reich it is staggering that this comment has never been taught in schools. This book is still available in its entirety from the Unesco website, if this link has died, it is because they are embarrassed, in such an eventuality you may download the document from here also.

Julian Sorell Huxley (1887-1975), one of the outstanding biologists of the 20th century, was a Life Fellow of the Eugenics Society from 1925, its President 1959-62,and the first Director-General of UNESCO.

Huxley believed that eugenics would one day be seen as the way forward for the human race even though it is currently overshadowed by ‘politically correct’ environmentalist theories.

So co-opting the environmentalist movement is only a means to achieve their ultimate stated goal to make eugenics and one world order more palatable to the gullible masses.

reply to post by JaxonRoberts


Personally I don't think Population control is necessary, the problem is humanity itself. We have to Master the Human Condition before we are to transend.

What I mean is there are to many freedoms that we have that shouldn't be freedoms at all, like the abilty to produce Garbage, Water Waste, Throw away food, Have individual Cars, have plastic bottles, ect... In a capatilistic world that you and me live in there exsist the condition of a material world.

In this materialistic world the unimportant things have supperseeded the true necessities of ultimate survival, basically our science and technology have surpassed our human condition that we have not mastered yet.

My opinion has always been the same, In order to proceed to the next level of our exsistance we have to Master the things that make us human (ignorance).

i.e. to an extraterrestrial intelligence our most intelligent scientific and spiritual humans take the short bus to school.

To an intelligence form of life the average human would be better served to be vegetables or put to sleep knowing that we do more harm than good.

My 2 cents

Fox

There's plenty of land to occupy everywhere, as for a large population and it keeps growing = pollution oh well Oil will be gone soon so wont have to worry about that because when its gone all the industrial sites will shut down everything that is oil based which is about everything you see, use and are used to will be gone and hopefully the government behind it will be eradicated too leaving us a fresh slate to start over on with smart and clean technology to drive the new era and get rid of the rich NWO oil suckas

[edit on 17-12-2009 by OpTiMuS_PrImE]

this is going to end the way it always does, only the scale differs.

i bet that the overpop crowd of today will be the first to fear extinction.

The Overpopulation (Rate) Myth

Astonishing falls in the fertility rate are bringing with them big benefits

As industrialisation swept through what is now the developed world, fertility fell sharply, first in France, then in Britain, then throughout Europe and America. When people got richer, families got smaller; and as families got smaller, people got richer.

Now, something similar is happening in developing countries. Fertility is falling and families are shrinking in places— such as Brazil, Indonesia, and even parts of India—that people think of as teeming with children. As our briefing shows, the fertility rate of half the world is now 2.1 or less—the magic number that is consistent with a stable population and is usually called “the replacement rate of fertility”. Sometime between 2020 and 2050 the world’s fertility rate will fall below the global replacement rate.

At a time when Malthusian worries are resurgent and people fear the consequences for an overcrowded planet, the decline in fertility is surprising and somewhat reassuring. It means that worries about a population explosion are themselves being exploded—and it carries a lesson about how to solve the problems of climate change.

More...

with the current reproduction rate aiming for 1 child per woman in several countries, it will take one generation to halve the population there. I imagine this will lead to collapse.


PS: i have always wondered why people in the industrialised world, where fertility has generally remained low for decades are harping overpopulation so much, because their own countries are experiencing a reverse... turns out it's the same old crap from the Eugenics movement. pseudo science won'tget you out of this mess, though, because things like biofuels are following the same logic and are already killing countless people through starvation and displacement. this is genocide. the responsible parties must be brought to justice, otherwise guess who will be next? these people won't stop at anything (cue WW2 reference) so it's either survival through prevailing against the threat or oblivion. just for the record, i sincerely believe that isn't an exaggeration at all.

www.notdeadyet.org...

[edit on 2009.12.17 by Long Lance]

There's only one problem with controlling how many babies are born in a world where people are living longer. At least for a time, there would be an awful lot of old retired people and not enough of the young to take over the work world. I'm not sure how'd that would look, but it seems rather unbalanced to me.

Why would we not have a choice?

I'm of the impression that the Earth could sustain 10, 20, 50 times more people than we have now. It certainly wouldn't happen with our current technology, but tech is growing faster than our population in my estimation.

The world of the future will look very different than we are envisioning at this point.

Remove energy, food, and water issues and there is really nothing to debate. Technology can (and most likely will) handle these issues.

Also, all this "pollution" is caused by the fact that we are still in the infancy of advanced technology. Clean technology is something that is desirable and will (or should) naturally head that direction with or without pressure.

Originally posted by KrazyJethro
Why would we not have a choice?

I'm of the impression that the Earth could sustain 10, 20, 50 times more people than we have now. It certainly wouldn't happen with our current technology, but tech is growing faster than our population in my estimation.

The world of the future will look very different than we are envisioning at this point.

Remove energy, food, and water issues and there is really nothing to debate. Technology can (and most likely will) handle these issues.

Also, all this "pollution" is caused by the fact that we are still in the infancy of advanced technology. Clean technology is something that is desirable and will (or should) naturally head that direction with or without pressure.

I tend to agree with you.

Add to that the fact we are gradually (too slowly for my liking) making moves to get off this rock, and I think that what is now a potentially huge problem will eventually not be

Resource-wise, everything we need is out there in space. We just need to get off our butts, stop pussyfooting around, stop wasting HUGE amounts of resources on hot and cold conflicts, and go for it. It will happen anyway, but if we concentrate hard enough it doesn't have to be so painful.

My opinion only, of course

Originally posted by Rockstrongo37
This myth of "running out of space" that drives so many to question the validity of population control is, as is the global warming nonsense, something totaly based on emotions and very little fact. Here in my state there are literally hundreds of thousands of acres of uninhabited land. Period. We humans are simply not over populating the earth. Of course you will see polution in the air above a highly populated city but that doesnt mean the world is falling apart. It only means that where you were in a small part of the world there is a high concentration of people living there. Thats all. Nothing more, there are vast areas in the world that are void of any development or humans, where nature is un spoiled. The moment we allow the few in control to dictate our ability to have children we are fools...especially when the reason to control our reproductive rights is based on a lie.

So you want to see horizone to horizon people?
You are not doing the logistics.
You are simply repeating something that you heard with not thought of how it would work out in reality. I really, really with that you and all the others could be put into some sort of Biosphere that duplicates the situation that you are talking about. And when you all have breathed up the last molcule of Oxygen we will carefully turn your bodies under and into the barren soil and plant trees which will flourish in the rich co2.

And those who adhere to the Bibile "go forth and multiply".....it is too bad that they don't finish the sentence for it continues with ..."and REPLENISH the Earth." Replenish means to fill again....and has not meaning to keep breeding until you all are pushing each other off the Earth. Why can't they use some common sense?

Over population is a myth. I recently read you could take the entire population of the world and put them all on their own half acre in Australia and the rest of the world would be literally just land .
Cities are the problem not people ,there is more than enough land in the world where people could be and also I can assure you there is a natural reason why we reproduce like there is no tomorrow and that is throughout history the human population gets cleansed naturally .
Look at swine flu , and how it spread no matter what authorities did . If that virus had a much higher fatality rate a large portion of the population would be gone already . How many months did it take to make a vaccine ?
Also the Earth, before humans was a very hostile environment and when things calmed we came into the picture or were put in it (whatever you believe). Supposedly the Earth is past due on going back to an extremely hostile environment .
So before you go fining people for having more than one child maybe you should be patting them on the back for saving the future of humanity .

Wow -so many here said it so much better than me


[edit on 17-12-2009 by Hermitoutofhishole]

I'm with you Electric Universe.

I used to be among the human-haters. Anti-tech and almost Jeffersonian, but then I realized that....

WE ARE NATURE.

We are not disconnected from the rest of the Earth. Nature made our condition and we live within her dominion.

We are her children. We just hit puberty and now we're going through high school.

It's all good. Things have changed so fast and will continue to do so. We will adapt. That's why Nature made us that way. We're creative as all get out. But the people that have succeded in life have a goal or purpose to strive for. What about

Plus there is evidence of extreme, rapid changes to the environment on this planet from time to time. Whether it be Super Volcanoes, Gigantic Metoerites or pole shifts. These greatly affect life on Earth.

Did you ever consider Earth(nature) might want humanity to make Earths on other planets? Because she knows we will take a part of her with us. In the forms of plants, animals, bacteria insects etc. ie DNA which gave us these these frontal lobes and thumbs so we could eveolve to this point.

Heck maybe this whole solar system is going to change in the not too soon future and our mother earth is getting us ready.

Now we have a long way to go on being efficient and there are some serious issues ahead but necessity is the mother of all innovation.

I see the propaganda machine is in full swing here on ATS. I think we should have population control but we should start with all of the people asking for it first and then see how things are after that I think it would solve the problem.

Blah,Blah,Blah I love the progressive crap spewing out of the internet. To bad that they are not the brightest crayons in the box and find it hard to back anything up with facts. I am a big believer in you better be careful what you ask for and I have a feeling that if they keep pushing they will find this out for themselves.

my two cents worth is its way overpopulated already---in mother nature we see cycles of up and down in all the animal and insect world-all from disease-or loss of recources------we are all living on a prayer now---barely staying ahead of the disease thing--but the inevatable running out of recources has already begun-----we can make it but major changes ha
ve to happen-----but the bible teaches that -that will not happen --why--
too many cowards------military members who dont walk away when they know how corrupt the military now is--god says do-not kill-- but the christians [so called] are rampant in the military--seems gods word in some peoples minds gets confused to think they are allowed to kill for some higher reason-- things like 911---everybody who does any investigating on their own knows it was a false flag attack to get the war going so the oil kingdom HALLIBURTON AND A FEW OTHERS--could steel oil----which as it seems by the contracts given out from IRAQ-china and russia were the big winners--WHY---seems america forgot ya cant steal,lie,kill and torture and get away with it forever----- our citizens [most] dont have the balls a mouse does--no courage--afraid to fight-march-leave their jobs when they know their company is corrupt--[insurance industry-arms companies-feds who # on the consitution like it was asswipe----- YES- god will hold all people who played a part acountable -- for if one has faith--- he will investigate the world he lives in and make the changes needed to fix sins that are causing downfall---turn your back and you will be judged as an accomplice -a coward or a sell-out----in other words we [most] are paying fore being a GODLESS people

I firmly believe that nature takes care of its inbalances. It will also take care of overpopulation, just as it does with all life forms. Maybe mankind's numbers will be decreased by starvation, the same way nature takes care of deer overpopulation. Or maybe it will be with disease, floods, fires, earthquakes. When the time comes and we tip the balance, nature will bring our population back to manageable numbers.

Hermit says: " Over population is a myth. I recently read you could take the entire population of the world and put them all on their own half acre in Australia and the rest of the world would be literally just land ."

Hermit, you have not really put that thought into a virtual Reality movie in your mind have you? Try it, see what happens. Put yourself on one of the acres.
The year is only 2025, so figure what advances in technology have been made, if any that are useful to the ordinary people.
Do you have a house? Where did the materials to build it come from and by what route did they get there?
Where are you getting your Power, water, sewer and garbage service? Where is the water coming from?
Keep in mind all the time now that there are 9 billion people in your area, each on an acre. What access do you have to your acre? Are there roads? Roads take up acreage you know?
Where does the sewage go? Where does the garbage go? Where do you buy groceries? How many power plants do you have?
Do you work? How do you get to work? What kind of work do you do?

With you all clustered in this one area doesn't it get hard to breathe? After all most of the world's Oxygen is not right where you and the other 9 billion people are.

While your are over there with all those people, I'm over here in the US. I have trees all around and the air is fresh and pure.
There is a meadow where our cows and horses graze. At nite there are deer that come out. I'll go fishing in the lake tomorrow. Since all you people moved out the water is really clear and clean, the fish have become abundant.
I'll go to the farmer's market in the village and buy some veggies that have been raised the old fashioned way. No pesticides or other chemicals. The farmers are glad you all moved away too. And so is the fisherman who has a small boat and goes out to net a few good ones to sell. He says the fish have really come back strong since you all went away.

We hear by the news that you are having big time problems over there.
You are complaining of the high price of Oxygen bottles. And that there is a high crime rate on account of the population density. Remember now, since there are so many people you just cannot have all the luxuries that you had back in 2010. You have to give up to share with all the others, and the more that keep coming.
Food is rationed and many go to bed hungry. Others go out and steal from their neighbors. You are not allowed to have pets anymore on account of the food, water and oxygen shortage. You complain about the bad smell in the air because the sewer plant is overburdened.

You have a community TV because there is a shortage of materials and each family cannot have one, as they use too much energy. You are allowed one bath a week and only with recycled water. Last time you showered the water smelled bad; maybe the filters were dirty.

How do you like it so far?