ATS, LHC and how we are on the verge of new Middle Ages

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by JayinAR
The Government DOES hide information from people.
They do it all the time.

But Sir, this is plain obvious.

However, this doesn't mean that there is massive clandestine science being pursued in unmatched secrecy.

If there had been an internet like ours in use during the time of the Manhattan project, I wonder how many debunkers the government would have hired to bury the leaks under cow-crap?

If there would have been no need of debunkers, because everyone would have kept their mouths shut, how do we know there are not equally secret projects running at the moment?

Some people may know secret projects are running, but NOBODY knows there are no secret projects running.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

Please note that entire paragraph was speculation in regards to manipulating the Higgs field but the part about atoms not falling apart was true.

You are allowed to speculate, as are we all I still find it interesting that given that the existence of Higgs field has yet to be observed, you can be so certain that an object will remain intact in the physical world. I have strong beliefs regarding a sentient existence beyond this physical world which actually mirrors yours, only in my version you have to actually be physically dead to get their.

I am not sure about the spirituality part of the argument but i think we're mature enough as a species to do certain things. We have slowly advanced our technology and it stands to reason that our maturity has scaled with the technology. It may not seem like it at times but consider that for every harmful invention a life saving one has also been made.

Now we have entered the realm of the subjective and all I can say is, I admire your optimism and faith in the system. I just hope with all my heart that when you reach the end of your career, you don't end up as cynical and disappointed with the system as I am.

Do I feel more comfortable with the LHC since our discussion? NOOOO

But I feel comforted in the knowledge that their are some good people involved in the science.

It's been nice chatting to you, thanks for your patience.

reply to post by buddhasystem


I agree, we are getting much better technology but alas, we are sorely lacking in the wisdom to use it properly.

Originally posted by 4nsicphd

Originally posted by DJOldskool
reply to post by kennyb72

 

Oh and tons of particles eminate from the center of our galaxy at 99.9999999999999999% the speed of light. they will not lose energy unless it is coverted i.e to heat by coliding with another object.

I really wouldn't say "tons",since it takes 1000000000000000000000000000000 beta particles to weigh a kilogram.
The energy is not converted to heat but the collision of a high energy cosmic ray with a photon of the cosmic microwave background will cost the HECR some energy by producing a pion via the delta resonance. Zatsepin, G. T.; Kuz'min, V. A. (1966). "Upper Limit of the Spectrum of Cosmic Rays". Journal of Experimental and Theoretical Physics Letters 4: 78–80. Bibcode: 1966JET

lmao I should have known not to use commen terms in a physics discussion. I was talking in laymans terms as frankly I dont have the education to do anything other than

By tons I meant lots, but Im sure if you calculated the total amount of particles eminating from our galaxy it would reach that massive number you quoted. Especially if you calculated there mass at the speed they are travelling rather than stationary mass

Thanks for the education on those collisions not producing heat, unfortunately I shall not be understanding pions in a hurry

Pions have zero spin and are composed of first-generation quarks. In the quark model, an up quark and an anti-down quark compose a π+, whereas a down quark and an anti-up quark compose the π−, which are antiparticles of one another. The uncharged pions are combinations of an up quark with an anti-up quark or a down quark with an anti-down quark, have identical quantum numbers, hence they are only found in superpositions. The lowest-energy superposition of these is the π0, which is its own antiparticle. Together, the pions form a triplet of isospin. Each pion has the isospin -1 (I = 1) and third-component isospin equal to its charge (Iz = +1, 0 or −1).

Source - wikipedia

Anyone explain that in laymans terms?? And you wonder why most mere mortals dont get quantum mechanics?

reply to post by DJOldskool


Hello DJOldskool

Ha, I would have to agree with you on your last post. I did read a comment by a quantum theorist once. He said something to the effect,

"If you think you understand quantum physics then you don't really know anything about it all."

Originally posted by kennyb72
You are allowed to speculate, as are we all

I still find it interesting that given that the existence of Higgs field has yet to be observed, you can be so certain that an object will remain intact in the physical world. I have strong beliefs regarding a sentient existence beyond this physical world which actually mirrors yours, only in my version you have to actually be physically dead to get their.

The Higgs field as far as we are aware does not hold atoms or molecules together. We have it well worked out as to what holds atoms together so it's not a problem for me to say that atoms won't be destroyed without a higgs field present. Again i don't know the detailed mathematics involved but i know enough to be pretty sure we're ok on this one.

I have no beliefs in a sentient existance beyond this world and i'm not sure where you got the idea i did.

Originally posted by kennyb72
Now we have entered the realm of the subjective and all I can say is, I admire your optimism and faith in the system. I just hope with all my heart that when you reach the end of your career, you don't end up as cynical and disappointed with the system as I am.

Do I feel more comfortable with the LHC since our discussion? NOOOO

But I feel comforted in the knowledge that their are some good people involved in the science.

It's been nice chatting to you, thanks for your patience.

Sensible optimism is a good thing and i think it is one of the best ways to progress science. Of course i am sure there are some utterly pessimistic people that disagree

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by B.Morrison
there are entities watching our timeline right now from another dimension that we don't access.

they are amused at these little scientist critters

Thanks for illustrating the "Medieval" part of my thread's title. I also think there are spiritual entities hiding under your bed, so watch out.

I didn't mock you, I would appreciate the same in return.

My ideas defy every rational logical argument my mind can offer,
and yet I can't deny the existence of the entities due to personal experience.

I'm well aware of the fact that in medieval times,
everything was considered 'the work of god'.

I also know that what I mentioned previous post, bears no relation.

I have heard a theory that in medieval times,

the left & right hemispheres weren't connected by that little bridge of brain flesh we modern man possess,

and that the theory has been put forward as an explanation for why it was that people thought they heard the voice of god, it was actually the sound of the left communicating with the right....so I'd like to assume I at least have that advantage over medieval man....

enjoy your 'science'.

One day you will leave this 'smaller picture' and join a bigger one,
and when you do,

there will be 'entities' there to inform you of all the more enjoyable ways you could have spent your life,

and also to inform you that enjoying your life,
is exactly the point of having one.

You will rationalise the breakthroughs & efforts you made in your lifetime to further the progress of man as a whole,

and they will have an answer for everything you say,

they will eventually show you the reality of the bigger picture,

and you will learn that what mattered to you as a human,
will mean little in the post-human stage of your growth.

To live your life according to 'the bigger picture' now,
makes it easier to manage the forced adjustment that comes later on
when you finally come to crossing that bridge....

Kind regards,
Medieval Bob.

[edit on 16/12/09 by B.Morrison]

P.S) the actual point of my post, regardless of my belief system,
was the following:

We humans have a freaking long way to go before we are using this universe the way the aforementioned entities do, and I doubt the concerns expressed in the O' Post will prove much of an additional hindrance.

which dismisses human superiority, and assumes the existence of intelligent lifeforms other than man, whom have opinions relevant to this topic.


[edit on 16/12/09 by B.Morrison]

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

I have no beliefs in a sentient existance beyond this world and i'm not sure where you got the idea i did.

Sorry about that, I should have expanded my train of thought. I was visualizing what it must feel like to have a body that contains no mass. Then drawing on my understanding of what our ethereal spiritual body would be like I thought it mirror my visualization.

Oh, and you will by the way, it's just a matter of time.

Still musing here, but wouldn't a particle without mass be a photon?

Originally posted by kennyb72
Sorry about that, I should have expanded my train of thought. I was visualizing what it must feel like to have a body that contains no mass. Then drawing on my understanding of what our ethereal spiritual body would be like I thought it mirror my visualization.

Oh, and you will by the way, it's just a matter of time.

What's just a matter of time? As for the other stuff we're getting off topic but i'll be happy to go into that via the private message system

Originally posted by kennyb72
Still musing here, but wouldn't a particle without mass be a photon?

No. If it were possible to somehow manipulate the higgs field (if that exists) then it may be possible to sort of create a "bubble" for lack of a better term within the field. If that were the case then anything within the bubble would no longer have mass because it would not be exposed to the higgs but it would have the same composition. So a sodium atom would still be a sodium atom just without mass.

Again all of this is absolute and complete utter speculation without any proof at all and it may very well be utterly impossible. I do however like to think it may be possible

Originally posted by buddhasystem
In the past few months, there have been numerous posts here on ATS, on topics related to LHC. I'm different than most participants of this forum in that I have a decent understanding of the LHC and experiments hosted there. I worked on a prototype of a detector some 20+ years ago that's now a part of Atlas. For that reason, I can't help but be in the camp of "debunkers" when it comes to outlandish and outrageous threads that are cropping up like mushrooms every time a fuse blows out there in Geneva.

What we've seen are -- Quark Bombs, Pan-Dimensional beings, Black holes, sabotage by secret agents from the future or Mother Nature itself. Or any permutation thereof! I know that ATS intends to be a combination of entertainment and popular science, but if so, both aspects suffer greatly by speculation that doesn't pass one tenth of an inch of Occam's razor. It vaguely reminds of lunacy (pun intended) of John Lear's claims about atmosphere on the Moon etc.

I believe that as a society, we are at a critical juncture where important points in advanced sciences are no longer accessible to public at large. There is only so much that can be done in "popularizing" science. It's a two-way street -- science must be presented in a way it can be understood, with some effort, by an average educated person - but said person should be willing to make that effort. Unfortunately, in the culture of instant gratification, this doesn't happen too often. It's a lot easier to take a shortcut of declaring that the government is hiding some "secret knowledge" and scientists are complicit in that since they are on the govt payroll etc. This way anybody can explain that it is possible to extract energy out of a bucket of water, or open a portal to a parallel universe, or that there is thriving life on Venus etc etc. One of my favorites is the claim that the recent atmospheric phenomenon in Norway is evidence of a secret plot to fake global warming. Just charming...

In my view, this is a dangerous trend which will continue unless we achieve much higher levels of education compared to what we have now. There is tremendous progress being made in life sciences, for example, which will bring about important challenges and choices we'll have to face as a society. Same applies to energy sector etc. I just don't see how we can have rational public policies going forward, if there is such a chasm between those who know and those who don't.


[edit on 14-12-2009 by buddhasystem]

How does this prove that a Pastor in the 1970s predicted that Obama is the anti-Christ?

reply to post by buddhasystem


Good and very straight forward simple message buddhasystem. S&F.
Second line.

reply to post by buddhasystem


I am afraid I am going to have to disagree here.....

Research these days is much more complicated than ever before and it can be difficult for people to understand. The researchers need to make more of an effort to explain what they are doing for everyday people.

In the UK we have a program called Horizon that does explain a lot of these things so that people can understand, but it is hidden away on the schedule.

They had an episode named 'The six billion dollar experiment' that explained the LHC very well. If you know where to look, it is available for download along with all the other excellent episodes. I would love to leave a link but I think it is probably against the rules.

Instead I will leave a link to another of my favorite sites which also has lectures on the LHC and other advanced research:

blog.ted.com...

There are lots of videos there for people to check out if they are interested.

Maybe it is not even the fault of the scientists, but the corporatins sponsoring the research. These days public relations has to be as important as the actual research I feel.

reply to post by buddhasystem


Hey, guys! I just happened by this thread because Im looking for some insight on the theory about the LHC being behind the spiral in Norway (lucky me, the OP had those words in his post). As far as I understand the last experiment was a few hours earlier from those events. Does anyone have more information about this?

Originally posted by sliceNodice

This machine is a shining example of human ignorance. No wonder ATS is scared of this thing!

I'd say it's actually only the ignorant who are scared of this machine. Scientific minds from all over the world have contributed to this machine's creation and if people looked into it properly instead of listening to the doom and gloom mongerers (of which there are many at A.T.S) people will see the risk associated with this machine is absolutely miniscule.

I can hardly wait to see what discoveries this L.H.C brings us, I just wish it'd stop frigging breaking down all the time.

OK, a year has passed since I started this thread, and sadly there is nothing that has transpired that would allow me to dismiss the Middle Ages part of the topic. 2010 saw a few threads on Haramein theoretical discourse that postulates phenomena which plainly contradict observable reality. In some threads, though, he's lauded as the person who finally fulfilled "Einstein's dream of unification". Bob Lazar of fraudulent fame also got his part of bandwidth on ATS, with people swallowing his pseudo-scientific jargon line, hook and sinker, without being able to meaningfully comment on anything related to physics. And there are more benign cases of "The Earth is cracking up, now it's official".

Well now, there we are.