Why Switzerland has the lowest crime rate in the world

reply to post by Retseh


Becasue the Swiss people generally do NOT have to resort to crime in order to eat.

The reason the Swiss have a very low crime rate is not because they have guns, but because crime is not linked to lack of finances.

Also, the Swiss are just more socially mature. I have a Swiss passport, was born in Zurich to Swiss parents but I don't really consider my self Swiss. I was raised and lived most of my life in the US. When I did move to Switzerland, well into my late twenties, it was a culture shock. The Swiss are very socially conscious. People don't litter, people don't cut in line, children behave, the elderly are respected, the poor are taken care of ect; It did indeed seem almost like a utopia when I was there. But their standard of living, their quality of life is way beyond anything I experienced in the US or in the UK where I currently live, and I don't just mean financially.

Of course they have their problems. No place is perfect. Their treatment of the Jenisch ( Swiss gypsies) and their looting of jewish money to name a couple of instances of a stain on the Swiss character are really a national shame. Though they are a multicultural nation, ( many differences in between cantons not the least of which are language) they aren't that immigrant friendly ( as I learned when I kept being mistaken for an American).

There have been changes in the gun laws in the last few years, especially after the Zug Massacre . But that was more a shocked response to the horror of that incident then a systematic change in the Swiss way of life.

The blunt truth is that Americans and the British for that matter, are just not socially mature enough to handle the responsibility of owning a firearm. You hear about "the right to bear arms" being spouted vehemenently alongside " My money, my guns, my freedoms" That is just not something you hear or encounter in Switzerland.

Originally posted by passenger
OK…when I said “guns = no crime”, I meant that – ohhhhh wait I didn’t say that!!! It seems that you think that I said that. I don’t have to defend statements I never made but you do need to provide more basis for your inferences if you wish them to stand. If you can reasonably prove that I meant the aforesaid then I’ll be likely to admit it (or more truthfully dodge it). Otherwise, please refrain from such assertions.

I think it can be logically inferred from your statements that you think guns in the very least reduce crime. They don't.

What I have questioned is why some do equate guns = crime. My argument is that Switzerland refutes this conclusion. What I am saying if that this Swiss experiment indicates that guns do not = crime. Therefore, I am demanding a different answer. There has to be a different dynamic. What is it then? Until it is given the usual reflexive, ideological answers don’t make sense.

The Swiss experiment as you put it has nothing to do with America. As others have said the Swiss are far more socially advanced than America. All you have to do is read about Switzerland to understand why it is such a successful country. Guns have nothing to do with defending yourself from your neighbours in Switzerland, in America that's what guns are for.

I can be told that 1+1=3 and not know the answer. But I can examine the data given (e.g count my thumbs) and say, “Well, I don’t know for sure what the answer is – but I know it ain’t 3. What I am saying is, that we have been told by those on the left that 1+1=3. Guns = crime. And we are just supposed to accept that without questioning?

Erm ok, so we have also been told by those on the right that guns are necessary for freedom and crime reduction sounds like 3 as well.

Guns have nothing to do with defending yourself from your neighbours in Switzerland, in America that's what guns are for

And that sums up everything that is wrong with "America". I don't mean, Americans, or even the geographical location, I mean the idea of "america" the values and morals associated with it.

I can attest that guns in Switzerland are about hunting, sportsmanship, and military service.

Originally posted by Merigold

And that sums up everything that is wrong with "America". I don't mean, Americans, or even the geographical location, I mean the idea of "america" the values and morals associated with it.

Oh wait a second, so this discussion isn't really about the relationship between crime rates and firearms ownership in Switzerland, it's just another thinly disguised excuse to insult the United States.

I apologize, I thought we were having a serious discussion there for a second, but I forgot you were European.

reply to post by OpTiMuS_PrImE


The Swiss are well trained by the government. US militias are not. Everyone with such a rifle in Switzerland is required to be trained, people in the US are not. The differences are staggering. The only similarity is guns, and that's where it ends. Don't fool yourself that US gun owners are as effective, well-trained, or well-equipped as the Swiss. That would be foolish.

I love Youtube. Any old crack can be heard and be taken seriously!

I hate to rain on eveyone's parade, but Switzerland is not the crime free paradise that most people here seem to think. Sure, it has low crime, but it's murder rate per capita is higher then the UK according to Wikipedia (2.26 per 100,000 population compared to 1.37 in England), although other website put it as equal or slightly less, so that statistics for you!

Oh, plus more people commit suicide in the Swiss paradise than in the UK or (even) the USA and for this simplistic assessment I take Nationmaster website as the source, or you could look at Wikipedia suicide if you so choose.

Switzerland is a nice country (although I have never been there, I have managed to drive by), but it is not some crime free love-den full of happiness and joy with zero skullduggery.

Regards

reply to post by paraphi


I totally agree. And yes, the suicide thing is there. Which is actually good - the rest of the western world will be following suit soon enough.

Switzerland is fantastic - I live an hour or so away. Great food, wonderful views, fantastic architecture, so very clean. I didn't see any homeless people, though I did see about 2 cops.

Guns don't make places safe, and that is true for anywhere in the world.

ahh maybe it's blond white people with money and skis? LOL

Because they have few black people.

Now here comes the racist # storm, but hear me out, then think, then reply.

I'm not a racist, I'm a realist, if the numbers are in front of me i call them as they are.

This is a topic i've seen first hand aswell.

But a quick read here:
Black Crime Stats

The fact remains they are over represented in crime. You can't single every one as being bad but as a whole, unfortunately. In my area it went from a peaceful suburb and it's slowly going to # as more and more move into the area. Where my father lives there's hardly any and those that do have my respect because they are really good people.

Heck go straight to the source. In Africa you have genocides, wars, rape....

Add gun ownership and hey, I wonder why so little crime.

[edit on 12-12-2009 by EarthFallingApart]

In this thread, there's alot of good acknowledgments of facts that play a role in why Switzerland has a low crime rate. Switzerland politics seem to have a "people first" mentality. They have more of a head on their shoulders, then other countries politics. It also helps that they have roughly an 8 million population. It would be naive to compare their politics to a country as USA with a roughly 309 million population. The bigger the populace comes more power. Power breeds money which bears many evils and crime is a big player. Switzerland's current approach to the way they handle their poor will not continue to succeed if their population doubles or more. It takes money and alot of it to do what Switzerland is doing so if their populace greatly increases, they have to formulate a new angle.

It's only fair to compare Switzerland's crime rate to counties or populaces with around the same population. You can't use the plans of a 4 man team with a 40 man team.

reply to post by EarthFallingApart


Correlation != Causation. Just because two things match up doesn't mean one is the reason for the other.

If you look at the level of poverty in the black community in the US, and the social standing of all people in jails in the US, you'd see it's not being black that makes people more likely to be in prison, but being poor. Black people in the US are more likely to be poor, so they're more likely to be in prison.

You would have noticed the same crime increase if a bunch of poor white folk moved into town.

Your thinking is dangerously racist, and woefully inaccurate.

reply to post by Retseh



Had you actually bothered to read my post you would have seen that no thinly veiled insults were thrown.

reply to post by passenger


Ignorant pap.

Guns work in Switzerland because they are tightly regulated, handguns are damn hard to get ahold of, must be registered, regularly incspected, and oh yes, there's that whole "ammunitiona llotment" thing.

To put it bluntly, for all you freaks on the right that think US gun laws are restrictive, Switzerland would be an absolute living hell for you.

That's why it works there. Because the whole shebang is hugely regulated on a level you and your Nugent fanboys would never, NEVER find acceptable.

Some other questions about Switzerland?

1) Are females conscripted or just males?
2) Is it true that all the mountain tunnels, bridges, airport runways, etc are rigged with explosives even today in 2009?
3) Does the Swiss Frontier Guard have military status and are they equipped as such or are they more of a civilian border guard like our US Border Patrol?


^ Google claims that this is a Swiss bunker but it looks like a big rock to me ...


^ this one is a bit more visible

www.dtig.org...
^ PDF doc with pictures and some info

[edit on 14-12-2009 by ChrisF231]

reply to post by ChrisF231


Some other questions about Switzerland?

1) Are females conscripted or just males? - Only males, but women can and do join the military

2) Is it true that all the mountain tunnels, bridges, airport runways, etc are rigged with explosives even today in 2009? Not really, but the Swiss take defense very seriously. They are very prepared.
3) Does the Swiss Frontier Guard have military status and are they equipped as such or are they more of a civilian border guard like our US Border Patrol? - They are military. But they are also border control. The Swiss aren't very immigrant friendly to be honest.

"bunkers" are part of Swiss life. Most buildings have them in the basement. In most buildings someone is in charge of maintaining the "safe room", additionally annual drills are conducted throughout the country.

The Swiss take disaster preperation seriously. I remember when Luzern flooded, I lived on a top floor myself but was looking forward to a few days off of work so things could get sorted but to my shock the next day everything was back to normal. Over night the civil authorities had built raised sidewalks throught the city, streets had been cleared, train tracks fixed and it was business as usual.

reply to post by passenger

It has nothing to do with Guns IMHO.
Its Socio-economic if you were to ask me.
High per capita income rates.
The average household income is 60k USD, per person I think it is around 38k. The unemployment level is low too.
They also have excellent drug programs, I think one program actually prescribed heroin to addicts, economically this is more viable as it reduces crime in general and anti-social behavior. In general the country has low drug use.
Almost 50% tertiary educated, nearly 100% literacy amongst the population. Only 5% of the population is a single parent family as opposed to 35% in the USA. The Swiss have mandatory health insurance too.
The level of people living under the poverty threshold floats between 13% and 17% in the US. In Switzerland is at about 8%. 8% of of 8 million people and 13%-17% of 300 million. These are relative to national poverty lines.

And how is this for unemployment benefits.

Unemployment Allowances
In general in order to receive unemployment benefits a person must:

be a Swiss national or
hold a valid residence permit and
be resident in Switzerland, unemployed, able to work and have contributed to the unemployment scheme for at least 12 months within the last 24 months
It is essential to remain at the disposal of the employment office and be able to prove that work is being actively sought.

Amount
The amount that you are entitled to is calculated according to a reference salary based on the last six months of salary subject to contribution.

The beneficiary is usually entitled to 70 percent of the reference salary. If they have one or more children and the allowance falls below a predetermined rate the amount due can go up to 80 percent.

Benefits are calculated on the basis of a daily allowance paid over five days and will begin following five days of proven unemployment.

A maximum of 400 allowances can be paid over a two-year period. A person over 55 years is entitled to 520 allowances paid over a two-year period.

IMHO, it has got nothing to do with guns and everything to do with the society.

reply to post by atlasastro


It's more than just the welfare or the guns.

In the U.S. there is an amazing amount of crime committed everyday by middle class kids. This idea that the only reason there is to commit crime is because you're hungry or hooked on drugs is ridiculously narrow. Crimes are committed all the time for 'kicks' or wholly intangible things like 'street-cred.' No amount of drug legalization or welfare of any kind can do anything to prevent that.

There's a whole world focused on the simple fact that 'crime is cool' and nothing short of massive carpet-bombing can remove that from society.

In my experience I've seen everything imaginable done for one of these petty reasons that can be traced back to the 'crime is cool' root and only once have witnessed a crime being committed for honest to goodness need.

What does Leroy need when he stabs Jose in the face thirty six times because of the color of his shirt? How much welfare is enough to convince the guys over on the South side of the city arent out to get the guys over on the North side of the city?

More of these violent crimes are committed for the sake of reputation than anything else. Can government dole out 'reputation' as welfare? And even if it could why wouldnt one guy want to kill another to take his reputation?

Legalize all the drugs and hand every human being 5 million dollars. You wont stop any of these crimes.

Abso#inglutely! S&F!

Over night the civil authorities had built raised sidewalks throught the city, streets had been cleared, train tracks fixed and it was business as usual.

That's amazing! I wish that my local government was even halfway that organized. Here, a simple minor snowstorm or even a heavy rainfall shuts things down for days. We had 5 inches of snow one day last winter and the Long Island Railroad into New York City was bogged down with significant delays for 3 days, schools (including colleges/universities) were closed for 1-2 days, even the local McDonald's couldent get enough employees to come to work to have a working operation,

The infrastructure system here in the US is in shambles, many of our major roads and bridges havent been repaired and upgraded in decades. Our electrical system hits the brink of failure every summer, etc.

[edit on 14-12-2009 by ChrisF231]

reply to post by davesidious


True, I understand the principles of implying something based on stats but the fact remains you still have to take into account the differences and possibilities.

Like it was said,I understand stealing when your poor but don't give me the BS that crimes like murder and rape are because of poverty. What I dislike is the fact that they have the chance to make something of themselves but they don't. I have infinite respect for those who do but no pity for the scum who procreate and perpetually continue the negative cycles and stereotypes... no matter the color and religion.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
reply to post by atlasastro

 

There's a whole world focused on the simple fact that 'crime is cool' and nothing short of massive carpet-bombing can remove that from society.

I really do hope one day we could resolve the issue with words and implementation of standards but if not I'll be cheering as the bombs are falling.

[edit on 15-12-2009 by EarthFallingApart]