When thinking about the mass extermination camps of a holocaust think.. The key to freedom is to be able to have the ability to defend yourself &, if you dont have the tools to do that, then youre going to be at the mercy of whomever wants to put you away. Guns are deeply rooted within Swiss culture - but the gun crime rate is so low that statistics are not even kept. The country has a population of six million, but there are estimated to be at least two million publicly-owned firearms, including about 600,000 automatic rifles and 500,000 pistols. This is in a very large part due to Switzerland's unique system of national defence, developed over the centuries. Instead of a standing, full-time army, the country requires every man to undergo some form of military training for a few days or weeks a year throughout most of their lives. Between the ages of 21 and 32 men serve as frontline troops. They are given an M-57 assault rifle and 24 rounds of ammunition which they are required to keep at home. Once discharged, men serve in the Swiss equivalent of the US National Guard, but still have to train occasionally and are given bolt rifles. Women do not have to own firearms, but are encouraged to.

Originally posted by passenger
reply to post by kdial1

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The standard liberal equation is that guns = crime. Point out the fact that the Swiss are awash in guns (per capita) and furthermore evil assault rifles (!!!) and they still have such a low crime rate and the gun haters immediately switch tactics. Can’t argue with the numbers.

Agreed. So the point is we have a more violent society yet we still allow gun to flow with just a simple basic three-day check

An amusing rhetorical tactic they try is to then to claim that , “well, they have such a heterogeneous society with a shared cultural heritage….” Ummmm, so ‘multi-culturism and diversity like ours breeds aggression then? If this country was all white and all Christian, we'd be as happy and crime free as Switzerland then right?

Probably. I bet if we got rid of all our differences we wouldn't need guns. The point is I don't se why Joe Blow needs a AK47...that's where I run into problems. Yes I think we are indeed a more aggressive society than that of the Swiss...look at the rates for non-gun owners...It happens with or without the gun...I posit that the gun makes it much easier

Another dead-end argument tried is that “oh, well, they got strict regulation there…” Yeah true. But so do we. There are thousands of gun control laws in the books. The problem is that our criminals don’t seem so inclined to obey the law. Why is that? Are the Swiss morally superior? Point is, they still gots’ guns galore and not so much crime.

But here again we have a problem with society. We created the criminals with our crappy class system that we supposedly don't have

Also the argument comes up (occasionally) that, “well, the Swiss got lots of guns but they don’t romanticize them like we do…” So, the Swiss can tell the difference between movie created fantasies and we can’t? I thought human beings were all rational and equivalent morally. I know I’ve been told by liberal friends that you can’t claim moral, spiritual or ethical superiority over another culture ‘cause that’s ethno-centric, bigoted, jingoistic thinking. But somehow the Swiss know better than us in this case. They’re just more rational human beings – but you can’t claim that Americans are more rational than, say, Afghanis. No, that would be a subjective, normative judgment based on nationalistic arrogance.



Have you ever watched video games or movies? We adore our guns. Now here is the thing...I think blaming a video game for a violent act is a crock but we sure as heck shove it all in our people's faces so yeah I do think we romanticize them...PS...Heat was a kick ass film


A further argument is that, “their training and such makes them more responsible, blah blah” Great, that means we should start training kids in the proper use of guns in public schools then, right? After all, early education and ‘awareness’ leads to prevention of later problems, just like safe sex, right? That turns them green – sometimes literally. After all, aren’t schools supposed to be ‘gun-free zones’? And we’ve all seen how successful that philosophy was. Nobody has ever gotten shot in a school that was made – by law – gun free! ( Wait, what happened at what school? Ahhhh, nevermind)

Although not a perfect system, training does indeed increase responsibility in some cases. Case in point...the military. They are trained to use weapons and weapon responsibility and also the consequences of poor gunmanship. Don't twist what I am saying because I am not advocating gun training at 10 years old. I just think maybe a training class before you are allowed to touch a gun would be awesome

They usually walk off in disgust at this point, mumbling about phallus compensation issues and various other ad hominem attacks. Have yet to see anyone solve the problem with Switzerland.

I like how you threw this in at the end...hate to say it but it sounds like a superiority thing as if you are so proud to have cornered a liberal. Well you don't have me cornered...I am here and won't walk away

[edit on 8-12-2009 by passenger] [/quote}

PS...I am a liberal (actually Socialist to be accurate) gun owner

-Kyo



[edit on 10-12-2009 by KyoZero]

[edit on 10-12-2009 by KyoZero]

Originally posted by passenger
reply to post by kdial1

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How do you solve a problem like Switzerland? (If you’re a liberal)

Originally posted by mad scientist
As others have pointed out, it has nothing to do with gun ownership. People like erm........you seem to tout this incorrectly as some type of advocacy for guns. This shows a complete lack if understanding. People such as yourself seem to think guns = no crime.