Why Switzerland has the lowest crime rate in the world

When thinking about the mass extermination camps of a holocaust think.. The key to freedom is to be able to have the ability to defend yourself &, if you dont have the tools to do that, then youre going to be at the mercy of whomever wants to put you away. Guns are deeply rooted within Swiss culture - but the gun crime rate is so low that statistics are not even kept. The country has a population of six million, but there are estimated to be at least two million publicly-owned firearms, including about 600,000 automatic rifles and 500,000 pistols. This is in a very large part due to Switzerland's unique system of national defence, developed over the centuries. Instead of a standing, full-time army, the country requires every man to undergo some form of military training for a few days or weeks a year throughout most of their lives. Between the ages of 21 and 32 men serve as frontline troops. They are given an M-57 assault rifle and 24 rounds of ammunition which they are required to keep at home. Once discharged, men serve in the Swiss equivalent of the US National Guard, but still have to train occasionally and are given bolt rifles. Women do not have to own firearms, but are encouraged to.

I did not know this about Switzerland, thought I would share with whoever else finds this interesting. Hope you enjoy :-)

-Kdial1

All the better reason to show here in the US to support proper militias that stand for the right cause or even join them and prepare yourself to protect yourself and loved ones. The whole country of Switzerland is a well trained population militia in itself. In the US MSM tries to make them out to be terrorist and so does the government

I think the think about it all is not the fact they have guns it is the fact that they are all on the same page so to speak. They all recognize their duty to act as a team to protect the country if need be.

Now with that said, what the heck are they going to do with 24 rounds of ammo?

reply to post by kdial1


How do you solve a problem like Switzerland? (If you’re a liberal)

Switzerland is such a funny anomaly – and such an inconvenient truth for liberals. I’ve used it as a cornerstone of intimate debate before but I’m glad you brought it up here in a public forum.

The standard liberal equation is that guns = crime. Point out the fact that the Swiss are awash in guns (per capita) and furthermore evil assault rifles (!!!) and they still have such a low crime rate and the gun haters immediately switch tactics. Can’t argue with the numbers.

An amusing rhetorical tactic they try is to then to claim that , “well, they have such a heterogeneous society with a shared cultural heritage….” Ummmm, so ‘multi-culturism and diversity like ours breeds aggression then? If this country was all white and all Christian, we'd be as happy and crime free as Switzerland then right?

Another dead-end argument tried is that “oh, well, they got strict regulation there…” Yeah true. But so do we. There are thousands of gun control laws in the books. The problem is that our criminals don’t seem so inclined to obey the law. Why is that? Are the Swiss morally superior? Point is, they still gots’ guns galore and not so much crime.

Also the argument comes up (occasionally) that, “well, the Swiss got lots of guns but they don’t romanticize them like we do…” So, the Swiss can tell the difference between movie created fantasies and we can’t? I thought human beings were all rational and equivalent morally. I know I’ve been told by liberal friends that you can’t claim moral, spiritual or ethical superiority over another culture ‘cause that’s ethno-centric, bigoted, jingoistic thinking. But somehow the Swiss know better than us in this case. They’re just more rational human beings – but you can’t claim that Americans are more rational than, say, Afghanis. No, that would be a subjective, normative judgment based on nationalistic arrogance.

A further argument is that, “their training and such makes them more responsible, blah blah” Great, that means we should start training kids in the proper use of guns in public schools then, right? After all, early education and ‘awareness’ leads to prevention of later problems, just like safe sex, right? That turns them green – sometimes literally. After all, aren’t schools supposed to be ‘gun-free zones’? And we’ve all seen how successful that philosophy was. Nobody has ever gotten shot in a school that was made – by law – gun free! ( Wait, what happened at what school? Ahhhh, nevermind)

They usually walk off in disgust at this point, mumbling about phallus compensation issues and various other ad hominem attacks. Have yet to see anyone solve the problem with Switzerland.





[edit on 8-12-2009 by passenger]

The major contributor to low crime is not the high gun ownership but is that drug addicts can get their fix (e.g. heroin etc) for free from the health service - all you have to do is register with your local doctor.

When you think that in the UK it is reported that 2/3 of all crime is drug-related (i.e. theft to feed a habit, the whole supply chain etc) - a Police officer I know reckons especially in urban areas it is more than 2/3 - if you remove the drugs from the equation by making them freely available from the state it will have a dramatic impact on crime figures compared to other nations that do not take such a liberal view.

Portugal has start down a similar route themselves decriminalising heroin possession and it is also having a big effect on reducing crime

[edit on 9-12-2009 by Popeye]

reply to post by kdial1


Certain states in America have high percentage of gun ownership. These same states have very low. Why? Who would break into homes or carjack when the victims are most likely armed?

People should also look into UK's and Australia's crime history before and after they banned firearms nationwide.

Fantastic!! We could all learn something from a readiness system that clearly works as well as a fine Swiss timepiece!! Time to move to Switzerland!! Cheers!!

Originally posted by passenger
reply to post by kdial1

 

The standard liberal equation is that guns = crime. Point out the fact that the Swiss are awash in guns (per capita) and furthermore evil assault rifles (!!!) and they still have such a low crime rate and the gun haters immediately switch tactics. Can’t argue with the numbers.

Agreed. So the point is we have a more violent society yet we still allow gun to flow with just a simple basic three-day check

An amusing rhetorical tactic they try is to then to claim that , “well, they have such a heterogeneous society with a shared cultural heritage….” Ummmm, so ‘multi-culturism and diversity like ours breeds aggression then? If this country was all white and all Christian, we'd be as happy and crime free as Switzerland then right?

Probably. I bet if we got rid of all our differences we wouldn't need guns. The point is I don't se why Joe Blow needs a AK47...that's where I run into problems. Yes I think we are indeed a more aggressive society than that of the Swiss...look at the rates for non-gun owners...It happens with or without the gun...I posit that the gun makes it much easier

Another dead-end argument tried is that “oh, well, they got strict regulation there…” Yeah true. But so do we. There are thousands of gun control laws in the books. The problem is that our criminals don’t seem so inclined to obey the law. Why is that? Are the Swiss morally superior? Point is, they still gots’ guns galore and not so much crime.

But here again we have a problem with society. We created the criminals with our crappy class system that we supposedly don't have

Also the argument comes up (occasionally) that, “well, the Swiss got lots of guns but they don’t romanticize them like we do…” So, the Swiss can tell the difference between movie created fantasies and we can’t? I thought human beings were all rational and equivalent morally. I know I’ve been told by liberal friends that you can’t claim moral, spiritual or ethical superiority over another culture ‘cause that’s ethno-centric, bigoted, jingoistic thinking. But somehow the Swiss know better than us in this case. They’re just more rational human beings – but you can’t claim that Americans are more rational than, say, Afghanis. No, that would be a subjective, normative judgment based on nationalistic arrogance.



Have you ever watched video games or movies? We adore our guns. Now here is the thing...I think blaming a video game for a violent act is a crock but we sure as heck shove it all in our people's faces so yeah I do think we romanticize them...PS...Heat was a kick ass film


A further argument is that, “their training and such makes them more responsible, blah blah” Great, that means we should start training kids in the proper use of guns in public schools then, right? After all, early education and ‘awareness’ leads to prevention of later problems, just like safe sex, right? That turns them green – sometimes literally. After all, aren’t schools supposed to be ‘gun-free zones’? And we’ve all seen how successful that philosophy was. Nobody has ever gotten shot in a school that was made – by law – gun free! ( Wait, what happened at what school? Ahhhh, nevermind)

Although not a perfect system, training does indeed increase responsibility in some cases. Case in point...the military. They are trained to use weapons and weapon responsibility and also the consequences of poor gunmanship. Don't twist what I am saying because I am not advocating gun training at 10 years old. I just think maybe a training class before you are allowed to touch a gun would be awesome

They usually walk off in disgust at this point, mumbling about phallus compensation issues and various other ad hominem attacks. Have yet to see anyone solve the problem with Switzerland.

I like how you threw this in at the end...hate to say it but it sounds like a superiority thing as if you are so proud to have cornered a liberal. Well you don't have me cornered...I am here and won't walk away

[edit on 8-12-2009 by passenger] [/quote]

PS...I am a liberal (actually Socialist to be accurate) gun owner

-Kyo



[edit on 10-12-2009 by KyoZero]

[edit on 10-12-2009 by KyoZero]

It really comes down to how they treat their lower classes and unemployed. No one sleeps in the street in Switzerland unless they choose to. Resources are widely available to help those who need it. If you are hooked on drugs they make sure you don't have to steal and cheat to get them. The bottom line is Switzerland has decided it is much better to take care of those who can't care for themselves, rather than doing nothing and alienating these foks from society, leaving them no choice but to steal and cheat. Without this hopelessness, the desire to be violent toward others diminishes greatly. If Americans would open their eyes and see what thier selfish attitudes actually manifest, we could be the same.

Free guns and drugs?

Where do I sign up?

Originally posted by passenger
reply to post by kdial1

 

How do you solve a problem like Switzerland? (If you’re a liberal)

Luck would have I just came back from Switzerland after a 2 week visit, and have been visiting that country for the pas 20 years, so... Before you use any and all threads to bash "liberals", get this:

Switzerland is the nearest thing to a socialist country you are likely to see in your lifetime. They have wide freedoms, but within strictly enforced limits. Police have sweeping powers.

They have well developed welfare system and other entitlements. Medical care is universal, of course. Army service is compulsory.

So if you want to praise Switzerland in any shape or form, please add a few heartfelt words about socialism.

reply to post by buddhasystem


Good point.

But I was arguing from the perspective of an American. Here in the U.S., a true socialist/liberal that supports gun ownership is as rare as a black member of the KKK. It doesn’t fit with the ideology. In general, it is commonly understood that there are core concepts associated with our version of liberalism. Gun control, abortion rights, equal opportunity, et al are generally accepted as core tenets of the American Left. Trying to pretend that most leftist-leaning Americans would support the idea of everyone possessing a military assault rifle is disingenuous. (Now come the posts from self-described leftists that protest about me maligning them because “they personally support gun ownership”).

Swiss conceptions of socialism may have different value systems, I admit. But I also know that liberals/socialists in America seem to think that guns, in-and-of-themselves, are one of the key factors in our higher crime rate. Switzerland proves that is not the case.

I also know the Swiss have a different heritage with the history of the Cantons and communal support and defense. I’m sure that has something to do with their attitude towards individuals’ possession of guns.

If anything, your statements go to prove my point. When leftists here bleat about “guns being the problem”, it shows how wrong they are. And obviously, the socialists in Switzerland agree with me.


[edit on 10-12-2009 by passenger]

Originally posted by KyoZero
Yes I think we are indeed a more aggressive society than that of the Swiss......I posit that the gun makes it much easier

So what is the difference between our societies then? What causes this violence, with or without guns?

Originally posted by KyoZero
But here again we have a problem with society. We created the criminals with our crappy class system that we supposedly don't have

Every society has a class system. North Korea, the hardest of the die-hard Communist states, claims to have “no class system”. We all know that is total BS. Every society has three rungs: top, middle and bottom. That’s almost a strict a law as is gravity.

Originally posted by KyoZero
We adore our guns…I do think we romanticize them...PS...Heat was a kick ass film

That is a valid point. We do romanticize our guns. But also, we romanticize the outlaw; think Billy the Kid, Jesse James, Al Capone, etc. Could that be another part of the equation? I can’t say for sure but it sure seems likely.

Originally posted by KyoZero
I like how you threw this in at the end...hate to say it but it sounds like a superiority thing.

Nope, but when people try to sell me something I know doesn’t make sense or leaves questions unanswered - I question them. It’s not about left or right. I hammer my Righty friends about drug control or religion all the time. My philosophy is that if you’re gonna try and tell me how to live my life then you better be able to convince me by answering all my questions. You made some good points and I did rethink some things. But it still doesn’t convince me that guns are the problem because Switzerland proves them wrong.

Switzerland has less people living in it then New York City, of course they are going to identify themselves as more of a group than the vast badly intergrated american and sub american cultures.

Originally posted by guppy
People should also look into UK's and Australia's crime history before and after they banned firearms nationwide.

Hmm well Australians never really owned guns in the first place, we just didn't feel a need to have one in your home. So the gun ban made amost no difference to crime, in fact Australian crime is far lower than in the US.

I was wondering when this info would surface again

20 years ago, I think it was, National Geographic & a MSM channel (both done separately, did a extensive interview of Switzerland's home defenses. Yes, I've know about the population having compulsory military but, here's some really intresting facts about what else they have .. such as....

~Remotely Hidden Automated large Mortars...a switch is flipped on and a tree trunk flips over and a mortar lifts from the ground, fires and goes back down again, auto loads till the next round. I saw one on a page in NatGeo story.

~Should an army decide to over take a city/town, Swiss have no problem leaving the town/city.. why? It's rigged with very high explosives to level it to the ground....with the invading army standing in the middle..

~dont' think the Swiss have an Air Force? Dead wrong ! the Alps are FILLED with them~! Hangers in many different, undisclosed locations, open up and aircraft can be flown out to attack in fleets..

I've know about this for decades..

Originally posted by passenger

How do you solve a problem like Switzerland? (If you’re a liberal)

Switzerland is such a funny anomaly – and such an inconvenient truth for liberals. I’ve used it as a cornerstone of intimate debate before but I’m glad you brought it up here in a public forum.

Switzerland is a liberal country. No more needed to be said. Switzerland is a far more mature country than America. They don't have nearly the social disfuntions found in America. Switzerland may be an example of why gins should be allowed and America is an example as to why they shouldn't.

The standard liberal equation is that guns = crime. Point out the fact that the Swiss are awash in guns (per capita) and furthermore evil assault rifles (!!!) and they still have such a low crime rate and the gun haters immediately switch tactics. Can’t argue with the numbers.

As others have pointed out, it has nothing to do with gun ownership. People like erm........you seem to tout this incorrectly as some type of advocacy for guns. This shows a complete lack if understanding. People such as yourself seem to think guns = no crime.

Originally posted by Komodo
I was wondering when this info would surface again

20 years ago, I think it was, National Geographic & a MSM channel (both done separately, did a extensive interview of Switzerland's home defenses. Yes, I've know about the population having compulsory military but, here's some really intresting facts about what else they have .. such as....

~Remotely Hidden Automated large Mortars...a switch is flipped on and a tree trunk flips over and a mortar lifts from the ground, fires and goes back down again, auto loads till the next round. I saw one on a page in NatGeo story.

~Should an army decide to over take a city/town, Swiss have no problem leaving the town/city.. why? It's rigged with very high explosives to level it to the ground....with the invading army standing in the middle..

~dont' think the Swiss have an Air Force? Dead wrong ! the Alps are FILLED with them~! Hangers in many different, undisclosed locations, open up and aircraft can be flown out to attack in fleets..

I've know about this for decades..

Yah but we all know that if any major power wanted to invade Switzerland they wouldn't have too much trouble doing it. What's the point of blowing up your towns and cities ? They will have no shelter for their people as well as leaving large amounts of high explosives in cities is extremeley dangerous.

reply to post by mad scientist

Originally posted by mad scientist
As others have pointed out, it has nothing to do with gun ownership. People like erm........you seem to tout this incorrectly as some type of advocacy for guns. This shows a complete lack if understanding. People such as yourself seem to think guns = no crime.

OK…when I said “guns = no crime”, I meant that – ohhhhh wait I didn’t say that!!! It seems that you think that I said that. I don’t have to defend statements I never made but you do need to provide more basis for your inferences if you wish them to stand. If you can reasonably prove that I meant the aforesaid then I’ll be likely to admit it (or more truthfully dodge it). Otherwise, please refrain from such assertions.

What I have questioned is why some do equate guns = crime. My argument is that Switzerland refutes this conclusion. What I am saying if that this Swiss experiment indicates that guns do not = crime. Therefore, I am demanding a different answer. There has to be a different dynamic. What is it then? Until it is given the usual reflexive, ideological answers don’t make sense.

I can be told that 1+1=3 and not know the answer. But I can examine the data given (e.g count my thumbs) and say, “Well, I don’t know for sure what the answer is – but I know it ain’t 3. What I am saying is, that we have been told by those on the left that 1+1=3. Guns = crime. And we are just supposed to accept that without questioning?

Even as a dedicated gun owner, I regard this notion as complete BS.

If Switzerland is so safe because of firearms, then how come Somalia is so dangerous?

Also - it is completely false to portray Switzerland as having quote "the lowest crime rate in the World".

The Swiss murder rate is actually WORSE than their near neighbors the British (2.26 versus 2.03 murders per 100,000 population) and the British have a near total gun ban.

The lesson here is that people commit crime, firearms are merely an adjunct.

If you have bad people, you have bad crime, and vice versa.