'Permanent' Arctic ice vanishing

'Permanent' Arctic ice vanishing

www.thestar.com

One of Canada's top northern researchers says the permanent Arctic sea ice that is home to the world's polar bears and usually survives the summer has all but disappeared.

Experts around the world believed the ice was recovering because satellite images showed it expanding. But David Barber says the thick, multi-year frozen sheets crucial to the northern ecosystem have been replaced by thin "rotten" ice that can't support weight of the bears

"Unfortunately, what we found was that the multi

(visit the link for the full news article)

I'd like to know how true this is.

I noticed that since the news on the hacker hacking into global warming related emails leaked the pro-global warming powers have been working overtime.

In other news we have this:

Saskatchewan, Nov. 15 (UPI) -- A University of Saskatchewan scientist said a severe bout of global cooling deemed the "Big Freeze" began in Canada nearly 12,800 years ago.

Geologist Bill Patterson said the collapse of a large ice wall at Lake Agassiz in Central Canada nearly 12,800 years ago seriously disrupted the Atlantic Ocean's circulation patterns, prompting a major cooling period for much of Europe, the Canwest News Service said Sunday.

www.upi.com...

So we have global cooling vs. global warming.

However....
Let's remember this:

Australian TV Exposes 'Stranded Polar Bear' Global Warming Hoax

Remember that wonderful picture of stranded polar bears on an ice floe that were used by folks like soon-to-be-Dr. Al Gore to demonstrate how dire the man-made global warming issue is?

Well, ABC television in Australia, on a show called “Media Watch,” recently debunked the entire issue
Video:
www.abc.net.au...

newsbusters.org...

OMG CLIMATE CHANGEEEEEEEEEE

Instructions from a commenter

Aw come on! Get serious! I live in Arctic conditions for six months of the year. For 57 years I've had to prepare for climate change each and every spring! I shall now give instructions to those up north facing this huge "crisis":
1)Remove your parka.
2)Turn DOWN your thermostat..
3)Get a seed catalogue and order your seeds,, you are going to plant a garden! Yeah really, really tough to adapt!!
toronto.ctv.ca...

It's funny how you get more news from the people than from the media nowadays.

R.I.P to the days of watergate journalism!

www.thestar.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

All I have to say on the issue is this.

30 years ago they tried to instill the Global Cooling tax and control policy. Than it started to warm up!

10 years ago they tried they Global Warming tax and control policy. Than it started to cool down!

Now they are trying the Global Climate Change tax and control policy.

Than the people of the world rose up and put every last one of the One World Global Governance on trial and hung them all for treason against humanity!

One can only dream!

I think this is one of those issues that most people come to with their minds made up already for ideological reasons, which is sad because, well, its not denying ignorance.

My own position is that climate change is underway. I have doubts now about the extent of it being man-made, but I wouldn't rule it out either. Either way, for my purposes right now it doesn't really matter; what matters first is establishing the actual extent of the damage, figuring out what can and/or should be done about it, etc.

One thing I do believe, which may sound callous: I think a lot of people want to deny man-made climate change and other forms of environmental destruction because it makes them feel guilty if it would be true. I have a pretty low view of humanity's foresight so I think that even if it is man-made, nobody is going to do squat about it. So in that sense it doesn't really matter. But we should at least man up and have the dignity to admit reality like men, even if we don't really do anything about it.

[edit on 11/29/09 by silent thunder]

Where i live climate change is real.

Sewers are being expanded to handle more rain, since we've gotten it it more short, heavy bursts lately, and home insurance is going up due to more storms.

We have invasive species like racoon dogs moving up from the south which a starting to cause issues, and getting ready for an influx of new diseases like tropical ones.

To me it's kinda fun to watch, nature in change.

Burning oil is a pretty stupid way to get energy, don't care about the Co2 (plants love that, to bad we're so keen on cutting them down), but everything else comming out of the tailpipes and smog towers. Asthma is on the rise, so is premature death from particulate poisoning.

I doubt anyone will accept that the climate is changing before it starts affecting them, it's really about not having to change ones lifestyle it's all about. Ignorance is bliss.

I do believe we are in a crisis whether man made or not. Our Earth and the natural resources are being depleted, the animal/bird species are going extinct and humans have a major role to play in that.

I have seen many people stating this is not true due to the hack of email, but majority of these people don't know anything more than what a layman knows. The technical knowhow to study and properly interpret these reports and messages. People just cherry pick the part which suits them, but fail to understand what the context it was in, the many geographical anomalies of different areas, difference in temp., rain etc. Most of the people on ATS are doing it because of the:
a) paranoia of NWO
b) suits their political stance (left wing...right wing stuff)
c) easy to deny than admit guilt
d) goes against their lifestyle
e) Is against the interest of current "power and energy" companies ruling the economies

Anti-Climate people simply do not have science with them to claim it is not man made or the climate change is not happening other than private blog articles or fox news propaganda.

Too many A bombs ago set up radiation level on the ice
as the Sun activates surface low atomic weight elements that
fell down from the atomic tests at the poles .
All a result of over the pole radar technology.

Originally posted by December_Rain
I have seen many people stating this is not true due to the hack of email, but majority of these people don't know anything more than what a layman knows. The technical knowhow to study and properly interpret these reports and messages. People just cherry pick the part which suits them, but fail to understand what the context it was in, the many geographical anomalies of different areas, difference in temp., rain etc. Most of the people on ATS are doing it because of the:
a) paranoia of NWO
b) suits their political stance (left wing...right wing stuff)
c) easy to deny than admit guilt
d) goes against their lifestyle
e) Is against the interest of current "power and energy" companies ruling the economies

Fair enough
However how about putting money where the mouth is?

You got 5 points being directed at anti-climate change people claiming they have no science behind such a movement.

But that's it
Wouldn't it be more effective to attack, bullet-point format as you have, the science or lack thereof?

I'm just saying that your post conforms to the audience it is directed at.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Mate I do not need bullet points stances to tell people about climate change. The place I live in, I face it everyday. The summers are getting hotter every year since last 4-5 years and each year they break the record of heat of previous year or 25-50 years. There are hardly any rainfall anymore, winters are just for "few weeks" now instead of months and then also you can just go out in a normal jacket in the month of December instead of stuffed woolen clothes, jackets, high boots, ear mufflers like few years ago. Extinction of animal species like Tigers, Polar bears, dolphins etc. Polar ice caps melting, drought in many areas.

One does not need bullet points to state these, you can experience them yourself.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


One of Canada's top northern researchers says the permanent Arctic sea ice that is home to the world's polar bears and usually survives the summer has all but disappeared.


disappeared really? funny they made an article without the photo of the so called missing permanet arctic sea oh and also have they forgotten Arctic is one mass island?

I guess the reason they didnt want to add a photo of the ice is because what if they are telling lies?

remember top northern researchers of canada work with government of canada and also i find a bit odd they dont say which researchers from which part.


This news story has been made just to fuel up there agenda
remember the cute poor polar bear photo? the media got hammered for that image and this the same thing although without the image.

reply to post by Agent_USA_Supporter




You do know what a stock photo is right?

Also, educate yourself a little about the climate instead of just jumping on the bandwagon - here's a 2 year old article about a new trade route being possible due to the thawing.

www.guardian.co.uk...

Don't know if you remember the sabre rattling at the time when everyone was claiming rights to the seabed?

reply to post by endisnighe


Yeah, apart from the fact that it has been demonstrated that AGW is a HOAX, and a SCAM, I think the AGW proponents in these forums are also forgetting what happened when European countries, and much of the world decided to put a GREEN tax on oil, and all products... There were riots all over the globe because people couldn't pay for gas, truckers in Spain and around the world went on strikes, including in European countries like the UK, and REGULAR people around the world protested against the GREEN TAX because they couldn't feed themselves, and their families.

Not only are the AGW proponents DEMANDING for countries to implement their GREEN TAXES on the world based on nothing but LIES, but they keep forgetting that their DEMANDS are affecting EVERYONE and not in a good way...and this "TEST" happened not that long ago...

Global Food Riots
Made in Washington, D.C.

By Deroy Murdock


To draw a phrase from the late, great William F. Buckley Jr.’s words as he founded National Review, someone must stand athwart the federal ethanol program yelling, “Stop!” The emergency brake should be pulled — NOW — before ethanol wreaks further havoc.

Poor Haitians rioted last week outside Port-au-Prince’s presidential palace, forcing Prime Minister Jacques Edouard Alexis’s April 12 ouster. Haitians are sick and tired of food prices that are 40 percent higher than last summer’s. Some have resorted to eating cookies made of salt, vegetable oil, and dirt. That’s right: Dirt cookies.

Developing-world denizens are taking it to the streets with growling stomachs. In Bob Marley’s words, “A hungry man is an angry man.”

Climbing corn prices have ignited Mexican tortilla riots. Enraged citizens in Egypt and Pakistan — potential Muslim powder kegs — have also violently protested premium prices for basic staples. Similar instability has erupted from the Ivory Coast to Indonesia. Resurrecting the defeated “import substitution” model of yore, India and Vietnam are among the nations that lately have prohibited grain exports and imposed government price controls. Kazakhstan, Earth’s No. 5 wheat source, just halted wheat exports, hoping to hoard local supplies. One third of the global wheat market is now closed.

High oil prices and growing global food demand fan these flames, but government lit the match. Atop the European Union’s biofuels mandate (5.75 percent of gasoline and diesel by 2010; 10 percent expected in 2020), America’s 51-cent-per-gallon ethanol tax subsidy (2007 cost: $8 billion) and Congress’ 7.5-billion-gallon annual production quota (rising to 36 billion in 2022, including 15 billion from corn) have turned corn farms into cash cows. Diverting one quarter of U.S. corn to motors rather than to mouths has boosted prices 74 percent in a year.

Eager to ride the ethanol gravy train, wheat and soybean farmers increasingly switch to corn. Thus, hard wheat is up 86 percent, while soybeans cost 93 percent more. Since April 15, 2007, pricier, grain-based animal feed (which consumed 40 percent of 2007’s 13 billion bushel U.S. corn crop) has helped hike eggs 46 percent. Got milk? You paid 26 percent more. Conversely, meat prices have dropped, as farmers slaughter animals rather than pay so much to feed them. (For details, click here.)

All this has triggered a race to the top of the grain silo. On April 9, “the World Bank estimated global food prices have risen 83 percent over the past three years, threatening recent strides in poverty reduction,” the Wall Street Journal noted the next day. “As crops are sold for alternative-energy production, food prices have soared: The price of rice, the staple for billions of Asians, is up 147 percent over the past year.”
............

Link


The environmentalists don't seem to realize that their demands are first of all based on LIES, and a SCAM, second of all their DEMANDS and siding with the IPCC, the Al Gorians, and the policymakers are causing SUFFERING ALL OVER THE GLOBE.

They saw this first hand in 2007-2008 when there were GLOBAL RIOTS because of the GREEN TAXES implemented on oil, and still these #$%@^#$%^$ want to implement these taxes again?....

Talk about SELFISH, ARROGANT, EGOMANIACS......

I know there are environmentalists that are not like this, some are too brainwashed for their own good, but these demands based on a LIE are causing suffering all over the globe, and they still insist on implementing more GREEN TAXES?....

There are families even in developed countries who are going through a tought time, but people in third world countries are going THROUGH WORSE....

I know this first hand because I have contact with my family in Cuba, and recently it has been a lot harder to find food, even with the money we send them, and there are poor families out there around the world who do not have relatives that can send them some money for food and all these people are suffering BECAUSE OF A LIE, AND BECAUSE THE AGW PROPONENTS ARE EGOMANIACS WHO DON'T WANT TO ACCEPT THEY HAVE BEEN WRONG, AND THEY ARE CAUSING SUFFERING....



[edit on 29-11-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

This is a funny article because evidently the ‘permanent’ sea ice is not ‘permanent’.

I have a funny feeling the sea ice was not there before the big bang!

I think a more accurate title would be ‘Temporal Sea Ice continues to be Temporal’

Who would have thought Chicken Little would have gotten a day job running the government and a night job running the media?

The sky is falling, the Iranians are developing nuclear weapons, the cost of health care is destroying us (wars and bailouts are ok though), the permanent ice is disappearing, the swallows aren’t returning to Capistrano, Elizabeth Taylor is never going to get married again, is there anything that doesn’t frighten the people of the world?


[edit on 29/11/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Yes, all of this kind of reminds me of the "chicken little-thanks traveller" scare of the scarcity of oil back in the 70's. Remember the outright lies that sheeple here are still saying about PEAK OIL. Remember the Carter outright lie about peak oil-"we have reached the maximum amount of oil that we can produce". Fracking people, read up on why food has been converted for the use of fuel. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Just another way to tax and control the world and keep "them" in power.

Einstein was right, keep performing the same experiment over and over and expecting a different outcome. Applies real well to the sheeple. Keep getting lied to-than see it is a lie, and then 20 years later state the same fracking lies.

Sheeple should just run into the ocean and quit trying to push the agenda their overlords, mind FRACK them with.

Originally posted by K-Raz
Where i live climate change is real.

Sewers are being expanded to handle more rain, since we've gotten it it more short, heavy bursts lately, and home insurance is going up due to more storms.

We have invasive species like racoon dogs moving up from the south which a starting to cause issues, and getting ready for an influx of new diseases like tropical ones.

To me it's kinda fun to watch, nature in change.

Burning oil is a pretty stupid way to get energy, don't care about the Co2 (plants love that, to bad we're so keen on cutting them down), but everything else comming out of the tailpipes and smog towers. Asthma is on the rise, so is premature death from particulate poisoning.

I doubt anyone will accept that the climate is changing before it starts affecting them, it's really about not having to change ones lifestyle it's all about. Ignorance is bliss.

i think we should stop burning oil, because it's bad even without the global warming part (which i don't think is caused by it), but a global carbon tax is not the answer.

do you have any information on when this started?

Climate "change" is always happening. Some years are colder than others, some are warmer than others. In addition, there have been longer cycles of warming and cooling, including ice ages, that have been taking place on earth for millions of years. I am not worried about mankind's impact on the weather...but I am worried about the devastating effects of pollution on the world's ecosystem...and that is not centered around the production of CO2, which is what they want to tax. The whole global warming scare is propaganda designed to coax the people into accepting a new global tax scheme. Its a form of fraud and the perpertrators should be locked up in jail.

I just found this while researching another thread but all here may find it interesting

150 Years of Global Warming and Cooling at the New York Times

link
newsbusters.org...

reply to post by Donnie Darko


I totally agree, all this cap and trade is pure BS IMO, reducing harmful emissions is not. The whole debate is focused around whodunnit and not about everything else we release into our local environments, or if your personal economy can hold together when you get slapped with extra high premiums on storm insurance since you suddenly live in an "heightened risk" zone.

I get the whole thing about the climate being cyclical, and right now we're coming out of a deep solar minimum, and it's supposed to hit maximum in 2012 - gonna be fun watching the climate go bonkers.

The big countries getting together to agree on cutting down emissions - GOOD THING!
Making Co2 a new type of currency and trade good - BAD THING!

Wow, what a shocker!
Kidding! S & F OP!
We are losing our only habitable planet and some of you are worried
about possibly paying some type of tax? wtf? (check signature)

We dont pay taxes anyway, we're all unemployed!
We gave our money to the rich and a had a couple fun wars to boot.
I's prolly not the worst of our worries anywhos!
Maybe we ought to have a AGW green tea party!
(get it? green tea?)
Of course its happening! Is it in any way due to our affects?
Nah, party on, s'all good peeps! Nothin' goin' on in here!
This place is a hoot! Wheeee!

Funny how the ones who dont think it could possibly be happening
prolly live in a big city in an apartment!
They certainly dont live in the arctic like these people!
www.youtube.com...
"We can't stay but we can't leave"
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...

Each year, during the month of September, the amount of sea ice floating in the Arctic Ocean is typically at its lowest amount for the entire year. This year, and all the way back to 2002, the amount of sea ice has been 20 percent less than the average amount seen normally between 1979 and 2000.

www.nasa.gov...

Last summer's loss of Arctic sea ice set a modern-day record, with the ice extent shrinking in September to a minimum of about 4.1 million square kilometers (1.6 million square miles). That was 43 percent less ice coverage than in 1979, when accurate satellite observations began.

www.astronomy.com...
There is a valid reason why the real extent is hidden and washed over!
So we can exploit it! Why else? We dont waste any time!
There's your conspiracy!

There are six areas in which the U.S. likely has an extended continental shelf: the Atlantic Margin, Arctic Ocean, Bering Sea, off the west side of Guam/Northern Mariana Islands, and in two areas in the Gulf of Mexico.
The United States has an inherent national interest in knowing, and declaring to others with specificity, the extent of our sovereign rights with regard to the U.S. extended continental shelf. Certainty and international recognition are important in establishing the necessary stability for development, conservation and protection of these areas, likely rich in resources.

continentalshelf.gov...
We gotta keep drivin' the bummers-that are made in china now!
Watch who killed the electric car, to see whos got some money!
Good articles here:
www.noaa.gov...
www.popsci.com...
www.cnn.com...
www.bloomberg.com...
www.planetwater.ca...
news.nationalgeographic.com...
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...
Gotta go outside and burn some stuff now, bye. Whew!
Thank you and your welcome!