Zeitgeist Movement = most hardcore NWO propaganda ever.

Originally posted by TrueTruth

Originally posted by skunknuts

Originally posted by TrueTruth
My favorite memory from my time on the ZM boards, was when we had a pedophile on the boards, and the mods wouldn't do anything about it. The guy was openly talking about his beliefs in the naturalness of having sex with children - on a board that had kids on it.

They hopped all over ME if I said a bad word about PJ ... but pedophiles? Perfectly welcome.

They're completely misguided fools.

In my experience, most social psychologists, apparently rather respected by the zeitgeist mvmnt, are some of the strongest advocates against child abuse, be it obvious, or more insidious....

So, are you saying my story never happened?

Or are you attempting to do a 'virtue by loose association' maneuver?

My point is this - all they care about, is their own egos. They wouldn't even lift a finger to keep a pedophile away from the kids on their own board. That speaks volumes about their character.

Granted, he never made a move on anyone on the board, but nevertheless - you can't just ignore that kind of thing.

[edit on 29-11-2009 by TrueTruth]

It surely could have happened, but what does a chat board have to do with the movement in general? That would be like blaming Jim Maars for all the idiotic trash chain letters that get posted on this sight as genuine thread starters. No?

reply to post by skunknuts


It's about people placing their trust in folks with questionable moral character.

It's about leaders who will come down on you like a ton of bricks if you criticise them, but have no interest in silencing a person who may be a real danger.

Originally posted by TrueTruth
reply to post by skunknuts

 

It's about people placing their trust in folks with questionable moral character.

It's about leaders who will come down on you like a ton of bricks if you criticise them, but have no interest in silencing a person who may be a real danger.

Well I agree that what you just wrote is not what I want to see. In fact, that is exactly the conditions I felt targeting me during the last 8 years. Lucky for the teabaggers that "dissent" is finally "patriotic," what convenient timing!

Discussion Forums aside, the real strength of TZM is the inevitability of the current systems failure. Due to the undeniable advance in automation, the whole premise of "earning money to survive" is already out of reach for a percentage of the world's population and will get worse exponentially. Once you're out of the system, you will have no choice but to join an alternative lifestyle or cease to exist.

Anyone with a better answer than TZM and the Venus Project, please stand up and be counted!

[edit on 29-11-2009 by JohnJasper]

Originally posted by JohnJasper
Discussion Forums aside, the real strength of TZM is the inevitability of the current systems failure. Due to the undeniable advance in automation, the whole premise of "earning money to survive" is already out of reach for a percentage of the world's population and will get worse incrementally. Once you're out of the system, you will have no choice but to join an alternative lifestyle or cease to exist.

Anyone with a better answer than TZM and the Venus Project, please stand up and be counted!

Hey, that would make sense for why the real powers that be want change to be so dreadfully incremental. Even though the human cost of making a couple bucks is skyrocketing, it doesn't really matter to the soulless NWO. I think the fundamental difference between the NWO and TZM is a matter of intentions, no small matter.

Originally posted by JohnJasper
Discussion Forums aside, the real strength of TZM is the inevitability of the current systems failure. Due to the undeniable advance in automation, the whole premise of "earning money to survive" is already out of reach for a percentage of the world's population and will get worse exponentially. Once you're out of the system, you will have no choice but to join an alternative lifestyle or cease to exist.

Anyone with a better answer than TZM and the Venus Project, please stand up and be counted!

[edit on 29-11-2009 by JohnJasper]

Here's a medical analogy: it's better to not intervene than to perform an intervention that is dangerous or unsound.

In the case of collectivist states with centralized authorities, we have a historical record of failure and harm.

No idea is better than a bad idea.

***

But, a simple first step would be a national movement to boycott the banks who are robbing us, and the corporations that are hurting us. Then we would need to bring the criminals to justice, and send them to prison.

That alone would be a herculean feet. Any system can be skewed evil if people intend to corrupt it.

True capitalism is a fine concept, as is money of some kind, as a medium of exchange. What we have today, is not true capitalism. The fundamental, core principles are not bad - but they have been corrupted and subverted.

One step at a time. That's my motto. First remove the tumor, then see where the patient is at. No need to remove all the surrounding organs until we know that we must - the transplant process is simply too risky.

[edit on 29-11-2009 by TrueTruth]

[edit on 29-11-2009 by TrueTruth]

Originally posted by TrueTruth

But, a simple first step would be a national movement to boycott the banks who are robbing us, and the corporations that are hurting us. Then we would need to bring the criminals to justice, and send them to prison.

I'm inclined to agree with Peter Joseph on this one. He has stated in the past that trying to overthrow the ptb is a waste of time because they're too good at protecting themselves. Instead we prepare so that when the system fails, we have something to replace it with (and it will certainly fail if only for the dissaffected ones!) He also argues that it's not corrupt people who make the system bad. It's the system that corrupts the people. It explains very well why the super rich are never satisfied and always have to be grabbing for more wealth.

Originally posted by JohnJasper
I'm inclined to agree with Peter Joseph on this one. He has stated in the past that trying to overthrow the ptb is a waste of time because they're too good at protecting themselves. Instead we prepare so that when the system fails, we have something to replace it with (and it will certainly fail if only for the dissaffected ones!) He also argues that it's not corrupt people who make the system bad. It's the system that corrupts the people. It explains very well why the super rich are never satisfied and always have to be grabbing for more wealth.

The system is designed to fail, to complete the NWO. The NWO that approaches, isn't much different than ZM. Read the thread. I've beaten the comparisons to death and it doesnt seem that you're acknowledging any of it..

The system was designed by corrupt people, the Federal Reserve didnt just happen along. The economic meltdown was engineered deliberately. The system is designed to allow greedy people to exploit and prosper sure, as designed by its corrupt architects. PJ's logic is so inherently backwards, that I guess him to be smart enough to understand this. His 1st degree black propaganda techniques are disgusting. He knows what hes doing. He's trying to sell the communistic technocrat NWO to all the revolutionary groups who oppose it.

You dont blame the economic system for 'not allowing' selfish greedy people 'to ever be satisfied'. Right. People are only tyrannical and greedy because of the system. Talk about double think. It's the Federal Reserve's fault for every schoolyard bully out there stealing lunch money.

If you're trying to sell PJ's theories it'd best best if you would responde to this post.

[edit on 29-11-2009 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

Originally posted by JohnJasper

Originally posted by TrueTruth

But, a simple first step would be a national movement to boycott the banks who are robbing us, and the corporations that are hurting us. Then we would need to bring the criminals to justice, and send them to prison.

I'm inclined to agree with Peter Joseph on this one. He has stated in the past that trying to overthrow the ptb is a waste of time because they're too good at protecting themselves. Instead we prepare so that when the system fails, we have something to replace it with (and it will certainly fail if only for the dissaffected ones!) He also argues that it's not corrupt people who make the system bad. It's the system that corrupts the people. It explains very well why the super rich are never satisfied and always have to be grabbing for more wealth.

Respectfully, Peter has no idea what he's talking about. How on earth do you implement an alternative like he suggests without taking on the system? You can't implement a new government without dismantling the old one. It's physically impossible.

And he's also wrong about the system. His ideas about scarcity are nothing but his own opinion, and are not rooted in any scientific analysis of anti-social behavior. Clearly, environment influences behavior, but it's not a unidirectional phenomenon - the system is a result of our nature as much as it influences it - the entire nature/nurture debate is philosophically meaningless.

And I say that as a former behavioral therapist (teacher who taught SPED using its methodology). I'm a big believer in the power of employing the scientific method to shape behavior - but this does not give us infinite ability to alter behaviors. There is still a range of possible results, and limits.

Come on, do you honestly believe that any of this will come to fruition?

These groups are small time societies expressing their marginal views.

Whether or not they advocate neo-Communism, is irrelevant.

Am I the only person on this site that does not fear the creation of a one-world Government.

The idea that all nations on this planet could come together, forget their differences, and work side by side to establish a "NWO" is laughable.

Like it or not, the world is governed by Capitalism; It cannot function effectively without the existence of individiual states and economies.

The existence of the UN is based on solodarity. Solodarity is good for Capitalism and trade.

I don't care if they are communists. They nailed the banks roll in causing misery and poverty. They only were half wrong on religion. Christianity was not always a sham but now it is hard to find a church not controlled by elites and government snitches. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

reply to post by Timshel


Putting that much power in so few hands, is inherently dangerous.

I like firewalls - like what our founders here in America tried to create with the 'balance of powers'.

Certain things also just don't work very well on a large scale, democracy being one of them. Localization is good.

I agree that the ZM is a non-issue; I just like to debate it, and try to deprogram it's followers, who tend to be sensitive, well meaning kids, who get taken in for suckers. Plus, they were mean to me, so I'm bitter.

I personally have viewed the series of documentaries, the main thing that got me is how Jacques Fresco is admiting that this is mearly an alternative to what we have now;

He states that our society is emergant, and that is how the Venus Project will be as well, its not a set of policies, or statutes. As they also touch upon those who control the policies of laws, and how money is distibuted, ect, today in our ever so emergant society, where we think people represent our interest, and manipulate the living document The CON-stitution, which is not in our favor anymore. The control Polices are outlined in laws and policies and statutes by those who are pawns for the NWO elite, (so to say). [America land of the FEE home of the SLAVE]

Does any one else have an alternative to the venus project to solve our problems with our divided government, (red blue dem/rep) Fuc|

The OP has clearly no idea of what he is talking about, or is being voluntarily misleading concerning TZM.

The paranoia in the post is obvious, as well as the partisan right-wing political stance. It reminds me of the 1950's "redhunt". You're so afraid of the NWO, (which obviously HAS to come in the form of those darn liberal commies, because you're ridin' with the good ol'boys) that you don't even realise that the system you favor, i.e. capitalism is already in control, of you, of me, of us, of the world, and by the vehemence with which you defend your own mental boxes, you were a real pushover to win over to their side.

Congratulations on such a brave stance towards life, and the future of humanity. Let's carry on doing what we are doing, except in a more right wing patriotic, "nationalistic" way. I can't wait. TZM brainwashes people ? Well, they came around too late for some. Honestly...

OP, your model has had it's chance, and has failed dismally. Oh sure things are gravy for you, but the rest of the world is dying of hunger and war(and you fear a world ruled by the elites ? take a look at your country...). How about not running around screaming NWO ! NWO ! everytime someone has an idea.

I have yet to see a more original, well thought out, philosophically coherent plan for society than the ZM. It is a shame your education, culture, and outlook on life prevents you from seeing this. No one has ever tried a ressource based economy, not even the communist regimes. They used money too. So try reading a book before you draw out any stretched caricatural parallels based solely on all that simplistic McCarthyist propaganda.

Humanity is going nowhere as long as people keep clinging to outdated forms of society, and using equally outdated forms of thinking to apprehend them.

Rant Over.

reply to post by Ismail


Why do you guys assume that those of us who reject the ZM proposal like things the way they are?

That's just plain old false. ie, a false dichotomy.

The system is fooked. No doubt about it. But that doesn't mean that any old idea that anyone comes up with is necessarily better.

Czarist Russia had lots of problems. Do you think Stalin's alternative was an improvement?

Originally posted by TrueTruth
reply to post by Ismail

 

Why do you guys assume that those of us who reject the ZM proposal like things the way they are?

That's just plain old false. ie, a false dichotomy.

The system is fooked. No doubt about it. But that doesn't mean that any old idea that anyone comes up with is necessarily better.

Czarist Russia had lots of problems. Do you think Stalin's alternative was an improvement?

Stalin was still working within the confines of a monetary system.

reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss


what is so scary about robots doing the work for us? What is so scary about the computer system MANAGING RESOURCES? I don't see how you think it would be a global government, when everyone would actually have a say, it wouldn't be controlled by a small group of humans like the real NWO Global government. The outcomes are reached by the entire world offering their input, then by allocating our resources, sure some people won't get exactly what they want.

95% of the population would agree that everyone should have access to clean air, food, and water, shelter, clothing, etc. Certain things might be lost, such as many unnecessary jobs, and products, I just don't think it will be any freedom that's lost.

If we actually had access to the technologies available now the world would be a drastically different place, imagine waking up in the morning, jumping on the maglev, stopping to have breakfast with your family 1000's of miles away, then going back home before noon. You don't have to slave away at a job you hate, so therefore you're free to pursue other interests. Imagine if the schools you attended actually taught true knowledge to everyone. Anyone would be free to learn about and pursue any lifestyle they choose.

I think a lot of people are afraid that you won't be allowed to have hobbies or something, or that a lot of recreational products won't be available. when in fact some of these things might become even more popular.

Sure not everyone will be able to stay in gigantic mansions right on the beach, but who would want to if you we're actually free to travel the world pursuing your interests, overall the quality of life will be better for everyone, the average person will have more freedom than (some) of the richest people in the world today.

I also agree that the process is moving too slow to be affiliated with the NWO.

Originally posted by dalan.
Stalin was still working within the confines of a monetary system.

So then how do we go about our day to day business and 'get stuff', without something representing some sort of currency? We just go take whatever we want? Who's gonna be the bartender? Guess we wont have to tip the bartender? Wait, who's gonna build the robot bartender?

How about trade? We can't trade stuff?? If we cant have monetary units of measure I dont see how we could. How will you keep people from trading if so?

Physical resources and human resources (human capital) is what the soviet system was based on. But they still had monetary units that represented their slice of things.

No? How could you do it different?

[edit on 29-11-2009 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

Originally posted by someguy420
what is so scary about robots doing the work for us? What is so scary about the computer system MANAGING RESOURCES? I don't see how you think it would be a global government, when everyone would actually have a say, it wouldn't be controlled by a small group of humans like the real NWO Global government.

I don't understand how you couldn't understand how a system that in practice is a centralized mechanism controlling the worlds distribution of resources is what we'd call a government.

The outcomes are reached by the entire world offering their input, then by allocating our resources, sure some people won't get exactly what they want.
...
Certain things might be lost, such as many unnecessary jobs, and products, I just don't think it will be any freedom that's lost.

What you describe above is a loss of freedom. Unnecessary jobs vanish all by themselves. People will still have to do work.

What you describe below that is a complete fantasy with no evidence to support its feasibility on a global scale.

I also agree that the process is moving too slow to be affiliated with the NWO.

Then you probably dont understand exponential growth.
en.wikipedia.org...

[edit on 29-11-2009 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss


Everything you want will be provided for you, like I said some things simply won't be available, but I guarantee that you would have more than you do today.

People could trade if they wanted to. Why wouldn't they? If I ordered a drumset last month and now I realize that I don't really need it, I'm sure I could find someone with something I want, that's willing to trade for it. People would recognize that certain things are limited, and be conscious enough to not simply waste resources, so trade would be a good way to conserve. Instead of just throwing out my drumset I can use it to bypass ordering the desk I need by finding someone to trade with.