Christianity, Satans Greatest Deception

reply to post by EndOfTheWorld7


well may one of his angels pay you a visit with the good tidings that you can forgive this whitey because this whitey forgives you. move on, for gosh sakes. harboring ill will for others is not gonna sit well on your soul.

Originally posted by undo
yeah he's kidding. anyone that could pick out just the verses that he did and miss all the other ones around them, is kidding.

I said in an earlier post, don't take my word for it, read the Bible yourself, I didn't mistranslate anything, you didn't come back with scriptures supporting your side of the argument because there are none.


From the versus I quoted you can go back and read the whole chapter.

read for yourself, don't take my word for it and nether some false priest in the church.

I didn't make up any of those scriptures.

[edit on 2-2-2010 by EndOfTheWorld7]

reply to post by EndOfTheWorld7


oh yes, there are ALOT, but you have already cut them off at the pass by refusing to acknowledge that gentiles have been offered the same opportunity. instead, you've decided to call gentiles, back slidden israelites, a concept not supported in the text. THEREFORE, nothing i can say to you on the subject will have validity:

1) because you don't acknowledge gentiles have the same opportunity as israelites do, to be forgiven, and saved from "their sins" (which includes the sins of the father.) so any verse defendng my salvation you will say is not about me in the first place.

2) because you don't acknowledge that females are even a blip on yeshua's radar, i'm doubly without defense because i'm female and white.

you don't want to talk to me or hear the verses in my defense, you want to believe i'm inferior to you. it's an ego session, and it has now, ended.

reply to post by undo


WOW! My thread went completely bonkers. These last few pages are totally nuts. The bible is a book, not the word of god.

The last three pages of this thread are what is wrong with the world.

reply to post by iamcamouflage


hi,

lol you don't like my defense ? i worked hard on that ya know.

Originally posted by iamcamouflage
reply to post by Agree2Disagree

 

You influenced the outcome. That is how it does not represent omniscience. He does not influence the outcome. There is no illusion of choice. You choose your outcome. It's pretty cut and dry. If there is no choice go sit on your couch. See what will "spontaneously" happen. Or is choosing not to do anything and waste away into a miserable pile of nothingness not a choice but rather, an illusion?

I influence the outcome in the same way god would, I am privy to the outcome in advance, so its irrelevant as whether or not i have a quarter in each hand or 1 million in each hand. It doesnt matter, i'm not deceiving you because if i know the outcome, you can ONLY choose that outcome, otherwise you have disproved my omniscience by choosing something that I did not know.

How can you choose an outcome that god already knows you will choose?

How can something be omniscient(knowing all and everything) and at the same time not know how you will choose? You cant be sort of omniscient. It defies the definition of omniscient.

God cannot know everything and yet not know your choice. If god knows all your choices, then free will is an illusion and if god does not know your choice, then he is not omniscient. And if god is not all knowing, why worship an inferior being?

allow me to correct your reasoning. knowing does not equal to influencing. they're not synonyms. needn't I go through the dictionary for that. anyhow links ... dictionary.reference.com... ... dictionary.reference.com... .
Indeed knowledge is power, and power can corrupt, and corruption manipulates.
But we are supposed to be talking about something (someone) that does not "live" by, exist by our rules, or who is corruptible, God's supposed to be incorruptible, for there is nothing greater than Him, even knowledge is subdued by Him, unlike humans for whom knowledge is greater than them, and strive for it. God is supposed to be KNOWLEDGE. I will try to keep a clean line, though I may ramble here or there, please excuse me and try to see my point. So as I stated before (repeating myself sorry, it's late 2:04 AM) to know is not equal to influence. Though in human world it works like that.
Anyhow, since most of the debate here compares God to humans, and gives Him a human nature. I will go through with this exercise, I will give God human attributes.
Let's take this possible scenario. You are a teacher, you will give assignments to your students. You know many of them are lazy, you know which one of them, you've been with them for quite a while now, and even if they're new to you, you're good in psychology and you can read them as an open book, and you know they will NOT do their assignment, yet you still ask them to do it. And you tell them that they must do it (this is not much of a choice is it now? the must thing). But you know they will not because they like to slack off, sleep during classes, doze off (you see them), talk amongst themselves, still you go and talk to them persuading them to do their homework and so on and so for. You even try to get their attention during classes, still no response. Now questions. Do you give them the choice to stay or to leave your class? Yes. Do you give them the choice to do their homework or not? Yes. Do you influence them on not doing their homework? No. You just told them they MUST. And you know whom will do their assignment and they do it without failure, be it excellent or some small trial, the quality is not important in this example though in school it may happen to be, as well as the choice of doing and not doing your homework. Do you influence what your students write about? Maybe up to a point, depending on the assignment, but otherwise they will have to use their brains, the knowledge you gave them to make their homework, be it math, chemistry, languages etc.
Anyways, back to our scenario in Eden, Adam and Eve are told "you MUST NOT eat from that single tree, or you WILL DIE", do they have a choice of eating or not? according to the "must" they do not have that choice, yet they still eat. Was that their choice? yes there was. they chose to eat despite the fact they were told NOT TO. did they knew the outcome? yes they knew they will die (whatever that meant). were they influenced by "MUST NOT"? NO. did they chose? YES. were they influenced by "you will not die"? you could say so. what influenced them? was God knowledge the power that influenced them? No. so to know != to influence. There is a hole in the ground, you put signs on it saying danger, yet people walk on, did you influence them to walk and fall into the hole? Well you could say that by denying one something, they wish for that something, which would make God a pervert. I don't know ... yet we signal danger not because we want someone to fall in the hands of the danger but because we don't want them to get hurt. Did the fact that you knew there was a hole influenced them to walk right into that hole when there were so many, many other ways around it? I kind of lost my track, as I said before it's late.
And I have something else on my mind I need to ask of you people. What do you think ... What if the whole thing for Adam and Eve told not to eat from the tree of knowledge wasn't because God wanted to keep them as "pets" that know nothing. But because they should have acquired knowledge in another way? Learn it, acquire it by their own. Otherwise how could they reassemble their creator (if we are to take literally that humans were created in the figure of their creator), if they were to be given everything on the plate?. I mean they were given a place to stay, food, water, companionship, a world, isn't that like a lot? Aren't they supposed to learn something about it? Ask questions not "steal" the answers from the end of the book? Or maybe the fruits weren't ripe for them yet, or they weren't "ripe" for the knowledge yet. You know, in our world in order to plant something, we must prepare the land for it. And there are some preparations. What if ... the "brains", the "capacity" of Adam and Eve at that time wasn't ready for the knowledge that was in store for them. We keep saying, that at the moment people can not grasp, understand certain things, that with our level of understanding, and bla bla bla, that even science at the moment can not explain I don't know what, that we need to advance, that we need to learn. Maybe that's what was happening with them, they couldn't understand certain things, and before getting to see "everything" they should have seen pieces. They were in "school" but they tried to "graduate" before even going to "school". If anyone gets my idea. What do you think of this scenario?
ps: I'm not siding with anyone (be it atheists, be it Gnostic, be it christians, be it satanists, be it whatever, I've even talked to many different people of all sorts). I have my own questions I have to answer to and sort them out. I just want to help people see all the sides of the "cube" even inside out, all perspectives if possible.

reply to post by iamcamouflage


No, I agree with the other poster just after you. That was pretty stupid. Turning a concept on it's head isn't philosophy it's something you do when you're high and you talk without thinking. The reason I believe that bit of "creative thought" isn't even worth considering, is because of the nature of God and Satan. If Satan managed to deceive that much of the world by appearing as the nicest guy who ever lived, wouldn't that make God impotent to save his own creation. If Christianity is true then God has saved an enormous amount of people all over the world, whereas there are relatively few (by comparison) pagans left. That sounds more in line with an omnipotent God who allows free will, but has a definite plan to save us from ourselves.

Then you contradict yourself by suggesting that Satan tricked everyone into following Abrahamic monotheism when paganism was actually true. Pagans don't believe in the Christian God or Devil. This thread is a waste of space. Go study theology and come back when you're an educated skeptic.

Originally posted by iamcamouflage
How can you be sure that the Bible was not inspired by Satan? How can you know that the Pagan religion was not the one true religion and then Satan came to earth as Jesus, inspired man to write the Bible to convince humanity to worship a false prophet?

Try not to use the Bible as a reference because, if the Bible was inspired by Satan then it could not be used as a source to prove that Satan did not inspire it.

Is it unreasonable to believe that Christianity is the devils greatest deception? And how could you know whether it was or not? If Satan is able to deceive, how can you know that you are not being deceived into believing and worshiping a religion that is actually inspired by Satan?

You might wish this material for an answer
www.thechronicleproject.org...

reply to post by iamcamouflage

Well, if I was the prince of lies of course I would claim to be Jesus.
There is a big difference between believing and knowing.

Like the evangelical said to me the other day:
"Sometimes I like it better when someone else does the thinking for me."
*sigh*
"Lucifer laughing spreads his wings" War Pigs, Black Sabbath,
this is how wein lala land

reply to post by Jim Scott

If Satan created the Bible, he would be creating a document that caused people to worship God, not himself.

Wasn't that the agenda of Satan as he rebelled against God? Does not even the Bible call Satan the "God of this World"? How does a Christian know, beyond doubt know, that the God he is worshipping is not Satan? How?

reply to post by iamcamouflage

How can you be sure that the Bible was not inspired by Satan? How can you know that the Pagan religion was not the one true religion and then Satan came to earth as Jesus, inspired man to write the Bible to convince humanity to worship a false prophet?

You cannot, plain and simple. It always gets me when a Christian tries to tell me that God himself inspired the bible, and all other books are inspired by Satan. Using this logic, Satan inspires some pretty good books, even some religious ones too, and the Classics! In my own 30 year study of religion I have come to the conclusion that the Pagan Goddess Religion is the first one on Earth, and all others came after. It is often said that the Goddess gave birth to all Gods. I know one thing, The Goddess does answer prayers made to her, and more. She has appeared to me in full apparition twice. And further, I see the dead and sometimes am able to talk to them. I have seen people who were as against the Christian Religion as me, and they were all completely happy with where they were. (4th Dimension) My Mother was a fundamentalist Christian and some nights I hear her cry out in horror at where she is.

reply to post by iamcamouflage


Well duh. You like camouflage, so you like paganism (at least your avatar does). It is more dynamic and in flux. Christians seem to be more concerned with an identity in my view, and the world is not exactly safe enough to let all enter if one wants a rigid identity, so they need a cross of protection. I just wouldn't pick both Christianity and Paganism; well, I wouldn't pick them at the same time. It is nice to know when it is safe to cross the street, if you catch my drift. The way I look at it: Christianity is for work and logic and wisdom. Paganism is for play and creativity, for fun. Cheers.

And to autowrench, an individual has got to have an idea. You don't have to understand why. Although I can understand your curiosity. I recently killed my mystery, as it was too daunting and all-encompassing to handle. Or I at least hid it. But not being lazy either.

And to danbones. You sure Lucifer isn't spreading eagle in a woman suit on coc aine while in a state of widespread panic?

i tend to think of more connections of religions than such, one is kinda strange and odd, and it kinda goes with what you say is there is a satanic bible as well as a christian one, both originating to the same time and era as when jesus was said to walk the earth and was also written by apostles just like the christian bible was, another connection isnt greek mythology pretty close to christianity, you have a massive number of gods and one high god, also you have angelswho lead different things just as much as gods in greek myth or so called myth also had such jobs or duties

I did not read through all of your replies my friend so forgive me if I repeat something already stated. Your premise is close to the mark. Christ did not come as Satan to overthrow God. After his death however, the Roman Empire did this to Christ as a means of gaining control of his movement.

I can't provide the evidence, but you can see for yourself if you look at what Christ actually taught compared to what Christianity teaches today in many of it's churches.

Satan merely means adversary to God. God is the voice within you. Your conscience. You do not need a middle man. Christ did not come for the Gentiles, he came for the lost sheep of Israel.

I came not to bring peace, but a sword

That my thread linked above on the subject. Much of what you know about Christ is a lie concocted by the Roman Empire. The teachings are in the Bible, but you have to look what Christ said himself to understand.

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by iamcamouflage
How can you be sure that the Bible was not inspired by Satan? How can you know that the Pagan religion was not the one true religion and then Satan came to earth as Jesus, inspired man to write the Bible to convince humanity to worship a false prophet?

Try not to use the Bible as a reference because, if the Bible was inspired by Satan then it could not be used as a source to prove that Satan did not inspire it.

Is it unreasonable to believe that Christianity is the devils greatest deception? And how could you know whether it was or not? If Satan is able to deceive, how can you know that you are not being deceived into believing and worshiping a religion that is actually inspired by Satan?

I believe that the original bible has been manipulated into this false religion..however there is truth within it yet it is still an idol and it best to look into your heart for God..those who are fanatical will surely dwell in Hell. I do believe that 2/3 will parrish and oddly enough 2/3 of the planet are religious..hmmmm I have been warning for years of the two "jesus'" which isnt entirely correct because the true King of the Jews name was NOT Jesus. I happened upon a book called the Jesus scroll last week and now Im reading Holy Blood Holy Grail & The Messianic Legacy. Christianity shall surely fall...it is the end of the world as we have known it. THANK GOD! I am ready to rule! Off with their heads!!!!

Man is always manipulating things to better suit his prejudice. There is a new thread that deals with this in OFF TOPIC: Religion, faith and theology; and it is titled "Man, Life, God and Faith". Question is, What is it you believe; and why do you believe this?

All things come alike to both the believer and non-believer; it all has to do with what perspective they are viewing it from. You cannot force someone to believe in something: belief comes from experience; and experience from manifestation, be it natural or clairvoyance, of the seen world or the spirit world. So if you believe in God, believe that God can also kindle each one of his creatures; and if you don't, do not criticize another for his belief: if there is a Creator, and his word is TRUE, he will reach each and every creature of his, and transform them into what ever it is he has ordained for them. Learn to love unconditionally: for with love comes peace. Peace be with you!!!

This is how I feel about God and all religions.......I think this analogy is great....God is like a big huge mountain...and standing around the base of this mountain are people from every religion, race, color, creed, and they are holding hands in unison...all looking up at the same mountain....(God)...they just call him by different names.

Caladonea

Originally posted by AUM68
reply to post by iamcamouflage

 

How can you be sure, that you who doubt in God, is not inspired by satan ?

How do you know, that all those non believers here on ATS is not doing satans work, trying to decrease all the believers, trying to "prove" that God does not exist ?


How do you know, that you who argue, are not false prophets ?

Isnt it strange, that even though believers gives your proof after proof, telling you to go out there and see for your self, see that NONE of you at least try to get up the chair and go out to the "real" world, not is doing satans job.

How do you know that you dont do what satan wants, when you just sit here, and thread after thread whinning up about all those believers ?

As I see it, there is no christians on ATS who is starting threads that all the non belivers should turn to God / Christianity.

But I see a lot of threads started by non belivers, trying to condamn christianity / religion / God.

How do you know, that all you non belivers arent in fact doing satans work ?





[edit on 26-11-2009 by AUM68]

[edit on 26-11-2009 by AUM68]

"If any of you lack wisdom....ask, and it shall be given"
Dude- If there was a chance that you would find out for sure why not just ask Ala,God,Universe? At the very worst you would find out nothing