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Churchs and money that goes to them!

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posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 12:28 PM
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Some churches should be reclassified as financial scams. Or perhaps indoctrination centers.




posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 12:34 PM
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posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 12:51 PM
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So many misconceptions. But I do understand. I have seen the bad side of religion and churches.

My father was a pastor for about 15yrs (now retired). He was full time. That meant, he was available 24/7.

His only source of income for those 15yrs was from being a pastor. He paid taxes on that income.

The church he pastored not only was for the members, but for the community. It operated free classes for families (such as employment stuff, parenting, counseling, etc). It fed the homeless every week. Its doors were open 24/7 - meaning, electricty and water were being used 24/7. ALL of these things cost money. The church relied on donations & tithes from members and others to operate and to pay my father. BTW. My father never made over $30k a year - raising a family of 5.

Whether or not you agree with religion - many people do and many people rely on churches for a mulitude of things. Many if not most churches operate as charities.

Are there bad churches? Yes. Are there pastors who are sitting on huge piles of money living in luxury? Yes. But that, IMO is the minority, not majority. And I would know - I grew up in the church, literally.

So what if religious organizations get tax breaks? They are there to serve and help others. If the government started taking taxes from the LITTLE amount of money they receive, there would hardlyl be anything left to operate on.

How about instead of complaining, go volunteer at one of these churches and help those in need!

[edit on December 17th 2009 by greeneyedleo]



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 12:58 PM
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Originally posted by stevegmu
They are also 501c not-for-proffit entities.


How can you claim that the Church (specifically tele-evagelists.....Benny Hinn, cough, cough) aren't for profit?

Last I knew they make a hell of a lot more money than 95% of Americans who get taxed.

And yes...I DO have a problem with the Church and not just the taxes they don't pay.

[edit on 17-12-2009 by Nutter]



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 01:01 PM
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Why the heck are people lumping ALL churches into one group. Unless you have proof that ALL churches are in it for profit, you are just telling things that are simply - not true!

Some churches, er, chuch leaders, are in it for profit. But not all are. Most pastors running churches live just at the poverty level and do not live in big fancy homes and drive expensive cars.

Seriously, get the fact straight before bashing EVERYONE and lumping EVERYONE into one group.

If it werent for many churches, the homeless and needy would not be fed and clothed. Unless all you complaning are out there feeding and clothing them!?



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 01:02 PM
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Originally posted by stevegmu
I don't know where you live, buy the churches in DC feed, clothe and house most of the city's homeless.


The Churches in my Area only do it on Friday. I'm sure those people get hungry, cold and tired the other days too.



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 01:16 PM
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Originally posted by greeneyedleo
Why the heck are people lumping ALL churches into one group. Unless you have proof that ALL churches are in it for profit, you are just telling things that are simply - not true!


So, a church wants to run in the red? If not, then it IS FOR PROFIT.


Some churches, er, chuch leaders, are in it for profit. But not all are. Most pastors running churches live just at the poverty level and do not live in big fancy homes and drive expensive cars.


Yes, because these preachers work about 7 hours a week. 1 Hour sermon and 6 hours prepairing the sermon. Life must be SOOOOOOOO hard.



Seriously, get the fact straight before bashing EVERYONE and lumping EVERYONE into one group.


If it wasn't so easy to do we wouldn't do it.


If it werent for many churches, the homeless and needy would not be fed and clothed. Unless all you complaning are out there feeding and clothing them!?


I've volunteered my time at soup kitchens, habitat for humanity etc. (and not just at the holiday season time). Do I get to not pay taxes on my income now?



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 01:19 PM
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reply to post by Nutter
 


You have no clue what you are talking about.
Pastors (or whatever you want to call them) do not just work 7hrs a week.
They are available 24/7. My father would get calls in the middle of the night. He held funerals and weddings. Counseling, feeding the poor and so on. And he is not the only pastor who does this. And many people in churches donate countless amounts of time and their own money to help others.

And paid pastors DO pay taxes on their income.

Really, you do not know what you speak of.


[edit on December 17th 2009 by greeneyedleo]



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 01:24 PM
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reply to post by greeneyedleo
 


OK. Fine. I'll give you that.

I still feel that at the end of the year if a Church has any profit left it should be taxed.

I mean any profit left after paying the pastor, the utilities, helping the poor, etc. If there is ONE dollar left over, then that is considered a profit and should be taxed.



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 01:27 PM
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Originally posted by greeneyedleo
And paid pastors DO pay taxes on their income.


A pastor is different than the Church he is employed at. A church is a business plain and simple. If not, then how can they pay employees?

[edit on 17-12-2009 by Nutter]



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 03:02 PM
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reply to post by Nutter
 


You really don't have a clue what you are talking about, do you?

I have never heard so much rubbish in my life.

My wife is a priest in the church of England and she works at least 50-60 hrs a week. She not only works in the daytime but must be out at least three nights a week at various meetings.
They have masses of paperwork to do plus visiting people, arranging funerals and weddings, doing baptism visits and lots of meetings with other church leaders. Didn't know that did you????

Money..
Very few churches in the uk have any money left over to pay tax on, Any money that is taken on a Sunday morning is used to pay all the running costs of the church, for ours this is around £50,000 a year. We also give 10% of any funds to charity no matter how little we have.
It is a constant battle to try and make ends meet.

Next time you make these types of remarks, do a little homework first.
You may learn something....



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 03:10 PM
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reply to post by greeneyedleo
 


People pay darned good money for funerals and weddings. BONUS WHEN LIT!!



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 03:27 PM
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Originally posted by jon1
My wife is a priest in the church of England and she works at least 50-60 hrs a week.


Sucks to be her then doesn't it?


She not only works in the daytime but must be out at least three nights a week at various meetings.


Welcome to the real world and everyday life.


They have masses of paperwork to do plus visiting people, arranging funerals and weddings, doing baptism visits and lots of meetings with other church leaders. Didn't know that did you????


Well, quit bitching about it. She made her bed, let her lay in it.

Meaning: If the work is so hard, why is she still doing it? Satisfaction?


Money..
Very few churches in the uk have any money left over to pay tax on, Any money that is taken on a Sunday morning is used to pay all the running costs of the church, for ours this is around £50,000 a year. We also give 10% of any funds to charity no matter how little we have.
It is a constant battle to try and make ends meet.


Welcome to the real world of business.


Next time you make these types of remarks, do a little homework first.
You may learn something....



Sorry that I got your goat. Maybe someone needs a prayer?

[edit on 17-12-2009 by Nutter]



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 03:40 PM
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reply to post by Nutter
 


Or a chocolate covered communion wafer.
Second line.



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 04:10 PM
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Let's make this simple....

If you feel churches should be taxed, then would you be OK with Preachers endorsing political candidates from their pulpits? I guess you would also be OK with churches making donations in the name of the church to their favorite politicans. (You know....kinda like unions)

Example: This just in....Pope Benedict has just endorsed so and so......he is requesting that every good catholic donate the maximum amount to his campaign!

I'm sure everyone would love that!!!!

Are you sure you want to tax the churches???? Really? Really?



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 04:15 PM
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Originally posted by Carseller4
If you feel churches should be taxed, then would you be OK with Preachers endorsing political candidates from their pulpits?


How would that be any different than now?


I guess you would also be OK with churches making donations in the name of the church to their favorite politicans. (You know....kinda like unions)


How would that be any different than now? Prop 8 in California comes to mind.


Californians Against Hate released figures Tuesday showing that $17.67 million was contributed by 59,000 Mormon families since August to groups like Yes on 8. Contributions in support of Prop. 8 total $22.88 million. Additionally, the group reports that Mormons have contributed $6.9 million to pass a a similar law, Proposition 102, in Arizona...


So, yes, if they can donate millions (with an S) to a political agenda, then they should be taxed.


Example: This just in....Pope Benedict has just endorsed so and so......he is requesting that every good catholic donate the maximum amount to his campaign!


And this didn't happen with black preachers and Obama?


Are you sure you want to tax the churches???? Really? Really?


Yes. Because everything you said already happens.

[edit on 17-12-2009 by Nutter]



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 04:30 PM
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Here in the US all the citizens pay taxes. As we pay taxes we are given rights, rules, law and order. We are also given the power to change laws and rules as we see fit.
The church is not allowed to preech publicly or display it's religious ornaments the way it would like to. That is they cannot put their 10 commandments outside city hall and why should they be able to? Those guys do not even pay taxes.
Now if you were to start taxing the church they would become members of this club here in the US. That wall of seperation between church and state would fall and they could start pushing to get religion back in school and everyweher else they wanted to. Why couldn't they? They would be a tax paying corperation just like everyone else, so they would be able to advertise where ever they wanted to pay to put it up.
Taxing the church would only give it more power, not that i think it is a bad thing but it is a retarded argument.

[edit on 17-12-2009 by zaiger]



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 04:31 PM
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reply to post by Nutter
 


What is Prop 8? Not too interested in some local county ordinance.

There is no doubt that the Democrat Party has used black churches for their advantage for years. This is not stopped because doing so would be considered racist.

The point is the day the churches are taxed, the more power the church gets. You think Unions have power with their political donations? You haven't seen nothing yet, if Churces had that same power.



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 04:41 PM
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Originally posted by zaiger
Now if you were to start taxing the church they would become members of this club here in the US. That wall of seperation between church and state would fall and they could start pushing to get religion back in school and everyweher else they wanted to. Why couldn't they? They would be a tax paying corperation just like everyone else, so they would be able to advertise where ever they wanted to pay to put it up.
Taxing the church would only give it more power, not that i think it is a bad thing but it is a retarded argument.


One thing you are forgetting is that we aren't just talking about Christian churches. You really think that all religions would be allowed to do what you are describing?

Also, I believe pagan religions/churches (whatever you want to call them) don't have this tax exempt status. Are you saying that they can put up a pentagram on the city council columnades?



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 04:49 PM
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Yeah, let's just forget about this whole seperation of Church and State deal.

TAX the churches! Prayer in Schools! Ten Comandments at every court house! The ACLU would be put out of business!



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