Odd that they would hold something of any importance back. If they did get solid evidence then they would have every reason to release the data...heck
they could get a lot of private funding and public legitimacy with such astounding evidence. The only reason I can imagine they would hold something
significant back if they had it was they are either being told to do so from the secretive evil cabal of alien cover-up dudes, or they are angling for
a way to make money off of it in a manner that would probably discredit their work too I bet.
Why is Mufon holding back information on the "Abduction Monitoring Project" ? , page 2
privacy
reply posted on 18-11-2009 @ 06:01 PM by karl 12
Originally posted by easynow
are you sure about that ? Dr, Hynek who was working for project Blue Book was told not to "rock the boat"..
Indeed he was - there have been some interesting statements made questioning the objectivity (and competence) of 'government sponsered' UFO investigations like Bluebook:
"I was there at [Project] Bluebook and I know the job they had. They were told not to excite the public, not to rock the boat... Whenever a case happened that they coud explain--which was quite a few--they made a point of that, and let that out to the media. . .Cases that were very difficult to explain, they would jump handsprings to keep the media away from them. They had a job to do, rightfully or wrongfully, to keep the public from getting excited."
Dr. J. Allen Hynek, former Chairman of the Dept. of Astronomy at North Western University and scientific advisor to Project Bluebook from 1952-1969
"As a result of several trips to project Bluebook,I´ve had an opportunity to examine quite carefully and in detail the types of reports that are made by Bluebook personnel. In most cases,I have found that theres almost no correlation between so-called "evaluations and explanations" that are made by Bluebook and the facts of the case...
There are hundreds of good cases in the Air Force files that should have led to top-level scientific scrutiny of this problem,years ago,yet these cases have been swept under the rug in a most disturbing way by Project Bluebook investigators and their consultants."
Dr James McDonald -Senior physicist at the Institute for Atmospheric Physics and professor in the Department of Meteorology at the University of Arizona
"Based upon unreliable and unscientific surmises as data, the Air Force develops elaborate statistical findings which seem impressive to the uninitiated public unschooled in the fallacies of the statistical method. One must conclude that the highly publicized Air Force pronouncements based upon unsound statistics serve merely to misrepresent the true character of the UFO phenomena."
Yale Scientific Magazine (Yale University) Volume XXXVII, Number 7, April 1963
"Blue Book was now under direct orders to debunk...I remember the conversations around the conference table in which it was suggested that Walt Disney or some other educational cartoon producer be enlisted in the debunking process".
Dr J Allen Hynek, Chairman of the Department of Astronomy at Northwestern University and scientific consultant for Air Force investigations of UFOs from 1948 until 1969 (Projects Sign, Grudge and Blue Book).
"My study of past official Air Force investigations (Project Blue Book) leads me to describe them as completely superficial. Officially released 'explanations' of important UFO sightings have been almost absurdly erroneous."
Senior Atmospherical Physicist Dr James McDonald, speech to American Meteorological Society 1966
"Project Blue Book was ballyhooed by the Air Force as a full-fledged top-priority operation. It was no such thing. The staff, in a sense, was a joke. In terms of scientific training and numbers, it was highly inadequate to the task. And the methods used were positively archaic. And that is the crack operation that the general public believes looked adequately into the UFO phenomenon".
Dr J Allen Hynek, Chairman of the Department of Astronomy at Northwestern University and scientific consultant for Air Force investigations of UFOs from 1948 until 1969 (Projects Sign, Grudge and Blue Book).
There are also these ridiculously contrived USAF debunks:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
And some truly major concerns over the agenda and motivations behind the Condon committee:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
I wonder just how stupid the USAF think people actualy are?
Cheers.
[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]
reply posted on 18-11-2009 @ 06:32 PM by easynow
reply to post by karl 12
awesome post karl 12 ,
thanks you just showed ITF why he is ignoring the facts !
anyone that understands this subject like you and i do, knows the same people that orchestrated the cover up during the Blue Book and Condon report era have not gone away and are not going to let Mufon just do whatever they please.
the others (you and i know who they are) will stay in their denial mode and dismiss everything you posted because it's beyond their mental parameters and some as you know are dis-info agents. all we can do my friend is keep passing the ball and see if anyone catches on. thanks again bro you were right on time with that post. i owe you one
awesome post karl 12 ,
thanks you just showed ITF why he is ignoring the facts !
anyone that understands this subject like you and i do, knows the same people that orchestrated the cover up during the Blue Book and Condon report era have not gone away and are not going to let Mufon just do whatever they please.
the others (you and i know who they are) will stay in their denial mode and dismiss everything you posted because it's beyond their mental parameters and some as you know are dis-info agents. all we can do my friend is keep passing the ball and see if anyone catches on. thanks again bro you were right on time with that post. i owe you one
reply posted on 18-11-2009 @ 07:18 PM by easynow
reply to post by azzllin
thank you azzllin ,
your post is exactly spot on ! there is no logical reason to withhold the information and whatever the findings are we should have been told about it. if Mufon didn't have the capabilities to examine the data then just like Joe said in the article, they should release the info so we can look at it and try and decipher it.
it seems the usual skeptics can't comprehend that. thanks again
thank you azzllin ,
your post is exactly spot on ! there is no logical reason to withhold the information and whatever the findings are we should have been told about it. if Mufon didn't have the capabilities to examine the data then just like Joe said in the article, they should release the info so we can look at it and try and decipher it.
it seems the usual skeptics can't comprehend that. thanks again
reply posted on 18-11-2009 @ 07:35 PM by easynow
reply to post by DoomsdayRex
you took my post out of context and i am going to assume you are only doing it for some payback from the last time you and i went round and round or you have no reading comprehension abilities.
which is it ?
you took my post out of context and i am going to assume you are only doing it for some payback from the last time you and i went round and round or you have no reading comprehension abilities.
which is it ?
reply posted on 18-11-2009 @ 07:36 PM by GORGANTHIUM
reply to post by easynow
James carrion is CIA.Does that answer the question for you then.
[edit on 18-11-2009 by GORGANTHIUM]
James carrion is CIA.Does that answer the question for you then.
[edit on 18-11-2009 by GORGANTHIUM]
reply posted on 18-11-2009 @ 07:39 PM by Pocky
reply to post by easynow
DO NOT TRUST MUFON.
They are on the wrong side of the tracks, they've been infiltrated.
DO NOT TRUST MUFON.
They are on the wrong side of the tracks, they've been infiltrated.
reply posted on 18-11-2009 @ 08:14 PM by mike3
Originally posted by easynow
reply to post by Mr. Schwabe
Good research easynow, interesting to ponder that MUFON may be holding back some alien related information - but I think MUFON is a respectable organization and the only information they are witholding is 'embarassing info'.
yes it's interesting to ponder if Mufon is holding back info because i am sure it's nothing but a CIA front to collect data and we all know the goverment has used project blue book and the condon report to dismiss all the evidence. the goverment lies about this subject and there's no reason for me NOT to believe Mufon isn't controlled or being orchestrated by the same agenda.
Do you have some evidence to back up that view that it's a government-run disinformation program or are you just thinking that's what it is?
This was a good plan in theory, but when executed I think they quickly realized that this program was invasive and generally uncomfortable for everyone involved. Audio and/or video equipment in your bedroom recording everything you do is going to get some stuff that nobody wants to see!
quite possible but i am sure these people already knew that they were being recorded in some fashion and would have refrained from bizzare activity to some degree so i am not sure your argument is a valid one.
Who, you mean the supposed "aliens" or the "victims"? If the latter, I'm unsure as to what you mean by "bizarre activity" since the idea is supposed to be that it's the aliens and not the victims that are doing the funny things, and the victims are the subjects of those things.
So, imo this was a failed program that they would prefer to soon forget about. Furthermore if they were to 'release any data' collected that may expose people in ways that is offensive.
aren't you jumping to conclusions that the program was a a "failed" one when you don't even know what the data even consists of ? there are plenty of easy ways they could keep anything private from being revealed. how hard is it to change a name from Joe Smith to John doe ?
Well, it isn't.
reply posted on 18-11-2009 @ 08:19 PM by easynow
reply to post by DoomsdayRex
i never mentioned anywhere in that post or specifically said that Mufon is covering up this particular info because of the previous "shady activities" from the goverment.
YOU made the leap that i was implying that and you took my post out of context, so i will ask you again...
either your looking for some payback or you have no reading comprehension abilities............which is it ?
i never mentioned anywhere in that post or specifically said that Mufon is covering up this particular info because of the previous "shady activities" from the goverment.
YOU made the leap that i was implying that and you took my post out of context, so i will ask you again...
either your looking for some payback or you have no reading comprehension abilities............which is it ?
reply posted on 18-11-2009 @ 08:25 PM by easynow
reply to post by mike3
1st question---->that was my opinion
2nd question--->the Abductees
that's it ? that's all you can say about it ?
[edit on 18-11-2009 by easynow]
1st question---->that was my opinion
2nd question--->the Abductees
Well, it isn't.
that's it ? that's all you can say about it ?
[edit on 18-11-2009 by easynow]
reply posted on 18-11-2009 @ 08:38 PM by azzllin
reply to post by easynow
Your absolutely right, in fact it's not common knowledge unless you look deep enough, some members who where involved in Project Blue Book, did indeed go on with their work, which directly led to what is now known as MUFON
At the time leading many to believe it was because Blue Book was deliberately providing disinformation and misleading the public with obscure explanations.
Dr Hynek on Live Television admitted that the explanations given, where the explanations they where ordered to give, when in fact they where knowingly giving out false information, I suspect though his statement he gave was the lead up to MUFON, claim you where forced to lie, then make it look like you are going to repent for want of a better word, repent by looking like your going to do the right thing.
However because the explanations given by Blue Book could be seen by even the most naive of people as strange to say the least, and nothing like the truth, it was decided to create from Blue Book, a more user friendly version, and the reason why is because they expected it (belief in little green men) to just go away, but when the questions became harder to cover up, they turned the tables by creating a group who would be seen to be looking for the truth that people wanted, after all they couldn't just go bumping people off every time something was witnessed, so they decided to allow everyone to submit evidence to someone they thought people would trust, and would investigate and present the evidence and truth about an observation to all, and that does not necessarily mean positive evidence, it meant the truth no matter what it was, but leaning more towards belief in ET more than against, thereby letting the witnesses and believers steer the evidence themselves, with MUFON only getting involved when the evidence became closer to what was really going on than they were willing to allow.
You can see this when you look at the massive sightings which took place in Texas, MUFON got involved, took statements, took away video, but then what? have you heard anything since? it's OK M.U.F.O.N are on the case, anything turns up they will tell us all, RIGHT?
Then sending out MUFON investigators who people would trust more than the people involved with Blue Book, like the Air Force, investigators who also happened to seem more trustworthy and evidently working for those who desperately wanted to know the truth, unlike back when Blue Book was on the case.
Because they where MUFON investigators people are more prone to trust their answers,not everyone but enough to convince a lot of those on the fence who doubted the sincerity of MUFON, every now and then doing the same as Blue Book and shrugging their shoulders, meaning they where unsure, but are looking further afield, but leaving out the swamp gas, and the Venus, and the other ridiculous explanations, as you can see this has worked ever since, because every single time good evidence like Photographs, Video's, or Physical evidence comes to light, most of the time they are advised to hand it over to MUFON, who then post some of the information for all to see, but which could also allow doubt planting opinions to be presented.
The rest (no doubt incredible and amazing) evidence being dealt with on a one to one, personal attention added to give it more credibility, which always makes witnesses feel good and important, who knows what explanations are given to those people, if not evidence a reward or a purchase of evidence signing the rights away, with an excuse of it being used in a documentary or two, once the rights to the evidence is gone, these people have nothing but a reward in the way of something they needed, money works I would imagine, everyone has a price as the saying goes.
That would go a long way to answering the question that always pops up, why does nobody ever get clear picture or video, how do you answer with, well it , I gave it to MUFON who are examining it, that will always raise a chuckle and open the door for the disinfo gang to start with the put down, leading to a fear of talking about it, after all they gave away the evidence to a respected group who is after all trusted and well known for their honesty, a bad experience for many, who under their breath with anger whisper, when MUFON come forward with my evidence, they wont be laughing then, they will be sorry ETC.
Truth is people have feelings, and those feelings are utilized as a weapon against them, it doesn't matter to MUFON any more, they have what they where after, and all it cost was a reward, a reward priceless to MUFON, and lucky for who ever receives it, so they thought.
Things however have changed recently, and as you said Easynow, suspicion has been aroused, and not all of this material is heading that way anymore, people are changing back to 35mm and other none digital formats, even video has changed back in a way, I know quite a few who have collected old VHS camcorders and upgraded them, some are filming with side by side cameras, to show the difference with IR while filming the same point at the same time, just to stop the CGI and fake claims, a lot of it is also being kept in what can only be referred to as underground groups to keep it away from the likes of MUFON.
The Disinfo projects and those clever people who love their pay check, often their pay check is just attention, (here boy there's a good doggy) have again brought about a change in the way it's being prevented, the only answer was to go the opposite way from what was being said, technology in UFOLOGY is no longer anyones friend, it's their downfall, because of the fakes and the CGI and fraud, going back to a stage were you can present a negative, or duplicate original Film that can not be classified as anything but genuine and untampered with, will begin to put an end to the CGI, Fake, Photoshopped screaming, some are even beginning to use old cassette recordings again to record anything they can, which in the recent passed has seen accusations of being tampered with, older formats which can not be altered in any way without 100% detection in any shape or form with a computer, and all the old time ideas are being used again but in updated equipment, side by side, old Tech, and state of the art Tech has created and is creating an undeniable way of collecting data, a way that has some scratching their heads on how to defeat it.
Used along with modern technology, I don't think disinformation agents can find a way around it unless they can prove the people presenting it are mentally challenged, which again can be dismissed if done in the correct manor, this will and is going to lead to the outing of the disinfo gang once and for all, then maybe we can get back to the business at hand without the fear of ridicule.
It will take some time for word to get around about the tactical changes, but it will spread and will be picked up once the benefits are understood, then maybe those we lost due to unscrupulous, selfish, inhumane treatment by these good for nothings, will return, and give us even more of what we know exists.
Sadly however, it leaves those responsible for the total denial and cover up, with the idea, that the only way to stop it when word does get around, and tactics do change, one of the only ways to stop it revealing all, would be prevention of information sharing instantly, which if it is to always remain a secret, means we could see the INTERNET begin to be restricted, which surprise surprise is what seems to be happening, each and every day we lose a little more, even the disinfo agents will lose their tools of the trade as well, then it's back to snail mail and huge conferences.
Be well everyone.
Azz
Your absolutely right, in fact it's not common knowledge unless you look deep enough, some members who where involved in Project Blue Book, did indeed go on with their work, which directly led to what is now known as MUFON
At the time leading many to believe it was because Blue Book was deliberately providing disinformation and misleading the public with obscure explanations.
Dr Hynek on Live Television admitted that the explanations given, where the explanations they where ordered to give, when in fact they where knowingly giving out false information, I suspect though his statement he gave was the lead up to MUFON, claim you where forced to lie, then make it look like you are going to repent for want of a better word, repent by looking like your going to do the right thing.
However because the explanations given by Blue Book could be seen by even the most naive of people as strange to say the least, and nothing like the truth, it was decided to create from Blue Book, a more user friendly version, and the reason why is because they expected it (belief in little green men) to just go away, but when the questions became harder to cover up, they turned the tables by creating a group who would be seen to be looking for the truth that people wanted, after all they couldn't just go bumping people off every time something was witnessed, so they decided to allow everyone to submit evidence to someone they thought people would trust, and would investigate and present the evidence and truth about an observation to all, and that does not necessarily mean positive evidence, it meant the truth no matter what it was, but leaning more towards belief in ET more than against, thereby letting the witnesses and believers steer the evidence themselves, with MUFON only getting involved when the evidence became closer to what was really going on than they were willing to allow.
You can see this when you look at the massive sightings which took place in Texas, MUFON got involved, took statements, took away video, but then what? have you heard anything since? it's OK M.U.F.O.N are on the case, anything turns up they will tell us all, RIGHT?
Then sending out MUFON investigators who people would trust more than the people involved with Blue Book, like the Air Force, investigators who also happened to seem more trustworthy and evidently working for those who desperately wanted to know the truth, unlike back when Blue Book was on the case.
Because they where MUFON investigators people are more prone to trust their answers,not everyone but enough to convince a lot of those on the fence who doubted the sincerity of MUFON, every now and then doing the same as Blue Book and shrugging their shoulders, meaning they where unsure, but are looking further afield, but leaving out the swamp gas, and the Venus, and the other ridiculous explanations, as you can see this has worked ever since, because every single time good evidence like Photographs, Video's, or Physical evidence comes to light, most of the time they are advised to hand it over to MUFON, who then post some of the information for all to see, but which could also allow doubt planting opinions to be presented.
The rest (no doubt incredible and amazing) evidence being dealt with on a one to one, personal attention added to give it more credibility, which always makes witnesses feel good and important, who knows what explanations are given to those people, if not evidence a reward or a purchase of evidence signing the rights away, with an excuse of it being used in a documentary or two, once the rights to the evidence is gone, these people have nothing but a reward in the way of something they needed, money works I would imagine, everyone has a price as the saying goes.
That would go a long way to answering the question that always pops up, why does nobody ever get clear picture or video, how do you answer with, well it , I gave it to MUFON who are examining it, that will always raise a chuckle and open the door for the disinfo gang to start with the put down, leading to a fear of talking about it, after all they gave away the evidence to a respected group who is after all trusted and well known for their honesty, a bad experience for many, who under their breath with anger whisper, when MUFON come forward with my evidence, they wont be laughing then, they will be sorry ETC.
Truth is people have feelings, and those feelings are utilized as a weapon against them, it doesn't matter to MUFON any more, they have what they where after, and all it cost was a reward, a reward priceless to MUFON, and lucky for who ever receives it, so they thought.
Things however have changed recently, and as you said Easynow, suspicion has been aroused, and not all of this material is heading that way anymore, people are changing back to 35mm and other none digital formats, even video has changed back in a way, I know quite a few who have collected old VHS camcorders and upgraded them, some are filming with side by side cameras, to show the difference with IR while filming the same point at the same time, just to stop the CGI and fake claims, a lot of it is also being kept in what can only be referred to as underground groups to keep it away from the likes of MUFON.
The Disinfo projects and those clever people who love their pay check, often their pay check is just attention, (here boy there's a good doggy) have again brought about a change in the way it's being prevented, the only answer was to go the opposite way from what was being said, technology in UFOLOGY is no longer anyones friend, it's their downfall, because of the fakes and the CGI and fraud, going back to a stage were you can present a negative, or duplicate original Film that can not be classified as anything but genuine and untampered with, will begin to put an end to the CGI, Fake, Photoshopped screaming, some are even beginning to use old cassette recordings again to record anything they can, which in the recent passed has seen accusations of being tampered with, older formats which can not be altered in any way without 100% detection in any shape or form with a computer, and all the old time ideas are being used again but in updated equipment, side by side, old Tech, and state of the art Tech has created and is creating an undeniable way of collecting data, a way that has some scratching their heads on how to defeat it.
Used along with modern technology, I don't think disinformation agents can find a way around it unless they can prove the people presenting it are mentally challenged, which again can be dismissed if done in the correct manor, this will and is going to lead to the outing of the disinfo gang once and for all, then maybe we can get back to the business at hand without the fear of ridicule.
It will take some time for word to get around about the tactical changes, but it will spread and will be picked up once the benefits are understood, then maybe those we lost due to unscrupulous, selfish, inhumane treatment by these good for nothings, will return, and give us even more of what we know exists.
Sadly however, it leaves those responsible for the total denial and cover up, with the idea, that the only way to stop it when word does get around, and tactics do change, one of the only ways to stop it revealing all, would be prevention of information sharing instantly, which if it is to always remain a secret, means we could see the INTERNET begin to be restricted, which surprise surprise is what seems to be happening, each and every day we lose a little more, even the disinfo agents will lose their tools of the trade as well, then it's back to snail mail and huge conferences.
Be well everyone.
Azz
reply posted on 18-11-2009 @ 10:07 PM by easynow
reply to post by azzllin
wow azzllin , great post
i have always been suspicious of Mufon for the simple fact they are a central receiving point for the majority of UFO evidence in the USA and there is no way and i really mean no way, is the goverment Not going to watch what information they collect. since we know this is happening, it's Not a huge leap to think they would censor anything truly important.
the real truth of the matter is, this goes all the way to the top of the pyramid which is the illuminati and the elite bloodline who for centuries have deemed this secret about E.T.'s ...'privileged' information for the them and them only. the sheeple are not to know the real story of the cosmos and this process has gone on since the day's of the Egyptians. anyone can research it and find out this is the truth and the current 'elite' who really run this world and control our goverment are orchestrating the coverup.
you may already know of what i speak of but i thought it was worth mentioning to everyone. i am really interested and glad to hear that people are changing their tactics with the cameras and film like you mentioned. i also agree that if things get to close to where too many people are starting to share real info about this subject then the only alternative for them to stop us would be for them to pull the plug on how we are all connecting with each other. they already know it and i believe they will kill us all if they have to. one of the reasons they want the New World Order is so they can have total control over everyone and in a socialist dictatorship , you won't be getting to far with anything they don't want you to have.
thanks my friend ,
i really enjoyed reading your reply and look forward to hearing from you again
[edit on 19-11-2009 by easynow]
wow azzllin , great post
i have always been suspicious of Mufon for the simple fact they are a central receiving point for the majority of UFO evidence in the USA and there is no way and i really mean no way, is the goverment Not going to watch what information they collect. since we know this is happening, it's Not a huge leap to think they would censor anything truly important.
the real truth of the matter is, this goes all the way to the top of the pyramid which is the illuminati and the elite bloodline who for centuries have deemed this secret about E.T.'s ...'privileged' information for the them and them only. the sheeple are not to know the real story of the cosmos and this process has gone on since the day's of the Egyptians. anyone can research it and find out this is the truth and the current 'elite' who really run this world and control our goverment are orchestrating the coverup.
you may already know of what i speak of but i thought it was worth mentioning to everyone. i am really interested and glad to hear that people are changing their tactics with the cameras and film like you mentioned. i also agree that if things get to close to where too many people are starting to share real info about this subject then the only alternative for them to stop us would be for them to pull the plug on how we are all connecting with each other. they already know it and i believe they will kill us all if they have to. one of the reasons they want the New World Order is so they can have total control over everyone and in a socialist dictatorship , you won't be getting to far with anything they don't want you to have.
thanks my friend ,
i really enjoyed reading your reply and look forward to hearing from you again
[edit on 19-11-2009 by easynow]
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