Black Holes: The other side of Infinity.

Something always bothered me about the explanation of what a black hole is. Take a huge sphere of hot gas, condense it into a singularity and all of a sudden it becomes a funnel?

Wouldn't the gravity well just remain spherical in nature? Why doe s a black hole go from a sphere to a cone? It's just something that has never quite made any sense to me. I can even understand the point of the singularity being formed by the collapse of all the matter of the former star, but I just can't wrap my head around the idea of a sphere becoming a for all intents and purposes a two dimensional object in space.



www.hulu.com...

Well, it doesn't to take an idiot to know that the trapped light, gas, etc...that goes in, goes somewhere..

I'm still waiting on an explanation of what formed the singularity that started the big bang...

"singularity" is one of those terms, that if you say near me, you'd get a slap, lol, its highly annoying...using a term that no one can explain in full.

reply to post by Solofront


I can't cause I just don't quite understand it. I don't understand the physics behind a black hole. The idea that after a supernova and the expulsion of matter out leaves behind a mass that is so tightly packed that light cannot escape seems odd to me. Because the explanation to me doesn't make much sense.

I don't understand the event horizon descriptions thing.

I find it fascinating though.

A point where going towards the black hole is as inevitable as going forward in time. The descriptions are kinda weird because wouldn't matter be already be crushing down way before you get anywhere near the event horizon yet the descriptions are like everything is "normal" before you cross the event horizon.

Just like water gets faster before it goes over a water fall, when matter gets sucked into a black hole it accelerates faster and faster. When it reaches the speed of light that is the event horizon because not even light could go fast enough to escape at that point.

When you travel at the speed of light time moves more slowly for you but to you everything seems normal. After the event horizon you probably are moving faster than the speed of light and that's when things will start to get very weird.



[edit on 17-11-2009 by VitalOverdose]

Black holes ARE spherical. They are not disk shaped "portals" where either side takes you to some weird, different place. The event horizon is spherical, and if you get sucked into it, you get crushed into an infinitely small volume.

Originally posted by whatukno
Something always bothered me about the explanation of what a black hole is. Take a huge sphere of hot gas, condense it into a singularity and all of a sudden it becomes a funnel?

Wouldn't the gravity well just remain spherical in nature? Why doe s a black hole go from a sphere to a cone?

The cone or funnel shape is just a graphic representation. The black hole is always spherical unless it is spinning in which case it may approach a disk in shape. You have a hard time showing three dimensional space being bent so artists represent three dimensions as a two dimensional surface and then bend the two dimensional representation to look conic or funnel shaped. But that is just a simple way to get the idea across to the ilnumerate.

reply to post by Kaytagg


That is what has always confused me about them. Every description depicts them as some funnel shaped thing which never made any sense to me. Space is not linear and from what I understand the event horizon is the point in space where if one were to somehow reach it you would be going far faster than the speed of light.

What I still don't get is why gravity increases to that point after the supernova. The mass is the same (actually less cause the supernova expels a bit of matter) but somehow gravity increases with less mass?

reply to post by whatukno


Its just because the matter is more densely packed in. You get more intense gravity but with a shorter range.

More useless black hole facts:

Because time slows down the closer you get to the center of a black hole in theory you would never reach the center. But as black holes dont live forever eventually the black hole dies and at that point you get crushed. But this may take billions of years to happen. But to you it would all seem to happen in about 10 seconds. lol

You could use this process to time travel. If you were in a very fast space ship and you get in the pull of a black hole ( but DONT cross the event horizon ) when you break free and get back into normal space you will have jumped forwards in time


[edit on 17-11-2009 by VitalOverdose]

reply to post by urwatu8


The cone shape is what you would see if a black hole was next to something like a giant gas cloud. Its the pattern of the gas being dragged into the center of a spherical black hole. Its not the overall shape of the thing.

reply to post by whatukno


It depends on what you mean by "gravity increase". If our sun were to suddenly turn into a black hole, the orbits of the planets around the newly formed black-hole-sun would be the exact same. However, in such a black hole, all the matter which was previously spread out over 1.391 million kilometers now fits in an amount of space smaller than the tip of a needle. The acceleration caused by gravity, as you get closer to the center, becomes infinite. The point where it becomes so fast light can not escape is called the event horizon. Beyond that, nobody knows a thing about them.

fora.tv...
FORA.tv SERIES: The Universe of Neil deGrasse Tyson
Neil DeGrasse Tyson: Death by Black Hole

I'd like to know what the limit of mass on a star until it collpases in on itself to become a black hole. If the math and phyisics are there shouldn't that be possible to predict?

They say that 99% of matter is empty space.
So when a black hole is formed it disasembles all of the elements in the star, removes all the empty space and packs all the protons, neutrons, and electrons extremely close together. Or possibly even crushing them all together into some sort of p.e.n.tron. Making a tiny ultra dense singularity.

The point is if the big bang all started from one of these singularities, how could it be possible for the crushed matter, that is 99% smaller than normal, to explode out escaping the emense gravity created by the black hole? AND why/how does the crushed matter turn back into normal matter?

I can only guess that black holes become unstable from the accumalation of matter or other black holes over time, just has the super giant star becomes unstable after it gains mass from colliding with other stars. The super giant star collpases in on itself creating a black hole. But the super black hole that was at the center of a galaxy, ate other galaxies, is now so massive it explodes, instead of impolding further, creating a universe? But still how/why does the compressed matter turn back into normal matter???

I don't think that there is a point or limit to the size of a black hole or a point where it becomes unstable and explodes. I don't know about Hawking Radiation either. I rather think that that particular type of emmision is caused by matter falling into the event horizon and being seperated into ions that are then ejected as ionized gas from the polar regions. If this is true then they would never evaporate because a Unified Field cannot ever leak according to my developing theoretical explanation.

A singularity can only exist within a Unified Field and therefore is absolutely stable. I also believe that a singularity requires a certain mass to form and should not be possible to form by colliding mere particles in a collider. I could be wrong but my gut tells me not so. The logic behind this idea is that a singularity should require the collapse of a mass of atoms greater than 3 solar masses in order to form period.

There may be ways to cheat and artificially create one but probably not from a few single atoms, even if they were actinide atoms. They should try making an element composed of pure neutrons before attempting to identify the Higgs Boson. I don't believe such particle exists because it must weigh more than 3 solar masses in order to form. How can we ever simulate that. The atomic particle that I refer to the singularity, I call the Unitron of a Unified Field and it is a single atom that weighs at minimum about 3 solar masses and can be stable at any weight because it sits within a Unified Field. That is all I will tell on ATS about my theory but I hope this brings some different scientific thinking to ATS readers.

Until the next episode,
Angel One

Originally posted by whatukno
Something always bothered me about the explanation of what a black hole is. Take a huge sphere of hot gas, condense it into a singularity and all of a sudden it becomes a funnel?

Wouldn't the gravity well just remain spherical in nature? Why doe s a black hole go from a sphere to a cone?...

They are spherical and NOT cone/funnel-shaped. Perhaps it may have been shown as a cone in some illustrations and in some movies, but those depictions would be incorrect. The event horizon is spherical and is all around the dense center.

I think if you were looking at one, it would be something like looking down the mouth of a funnel, but it would look like that from all angles.

[edit on 11/25/2009 by Soylent Green Is People]

Im just gonna summerise this thread for anyone who cant be arsed reading through it.
blackholes = mind#

sounds like the majority of you need to take a simple astronomy class, all this "black hole" magic will make much more sense.

reply to post by Demondrive


I have taken an Astronomy course this semester and what they covered about the subject was pure elementary. I am actually a very serious science major working on a doctarate in geochemical volcanology and physics. So I take your remark as an insult. I have advanced ideas and theorization that is completely new to this world of science.

In a few years I will join the ranks of the elite scientists of the time guarenteed. In so many ways I have already made the scientific discoveries that I will continue to develop in school. So I don't want to hear, go take an astronomy class because I have and I didn't learn much more that I already know and exercise as knowledge.

until the next episode,

Angel One

Originally posted by whatukno
Something always bothered me about the explanation of what a black hole is. Take a huge sphere of hot gas, condense it into a singularity and all of a sudden it becomes a funnel?

Wouldn't the gravity well just remain spherical in nature? Why doe s a black hole go from a sphere to a cone? It's just something that has never quite made any sense to me. I can even understand the point of the singularity being formed by the collapse of all the matter of the former star, but I just can't wrap my head around the idea of a sphere becoming a for all intents and purposes a two dimensional object in space.

www.hulu.com...

HEY... it's narrated by Qui-Gon Jinn!!!

If time stops in there somewhere then any black holes that were there before, during or soon after the big bang would still exist there and here right now. In other words if you could somehow go in there and not get crushed you could exit at the big bang or very near it when ever the first BH was created. I