Atheism...the new Christianity

reply to post by Snarf


I find the condescension insulting...you poor little simp, you are too weak to handle the difficulties of life so you turn to this fairy tale to make it through life. That is not it at all. I have done and continue to do research and weigh information I see and hear and I come to my conclusions. I don't mind if you disagree, I will simply pray for you. : ) But don't think I am an idiot because I have come to different conclusions than you.
And regarding science and religion, I don't think they are necessarily exclusive of each other. I have come across Walter Veith, a Seventh Day Adventis and scientist...all at the same time! I really like listening to him discuss scientific things and show how not all science disproves Biblical things.

Originally posted by Jauqx
What I can't handle is the diffusion if corrupt and degenertaing ideas such as organized religion does i.e the people who spread it.

If you are mentally ill and believe in those fairy tales, keep it to yourself. If not, I reserve my RIGHT to mock and ridicule!

[edit on 4-11-2009 by Jauqx]

Just as an aside, you don't have to be mentally ill to believe in fairy tales. As a matter of fact, what you choose to accept as truth is completely up to you and everyone else.

You can even write your own narrative and believe in that if you want to.

Personally I'm an Autotheist.

reply to post by Snarf


bravo for faiing to prove atheists have faith.

atheism is not believing in god.

how the hell does that require faith?
im not convinced of it. im not saying there is no god (THAT would require proof)
saying im not convinced a god exists is not a leap of faith.

to rephrase...not believing in something is NOT a belief.

here
"Now, faith is the substance of things to be hoped for, the evidence of things that appear not." Hebrews 11:1
tell me how not believing in god is faith.

[edit on 5-11-2009 by ELECTRICkoolaidZOMBIEtest]

Originally posted by ELECTRICkoolaidZOMBIEtest
saying im not convinced a god exists is not a leap of faith.

You're correct here. By "not being convinced" means indecision and that one is open to changing their mind.

to rephrase...not believing in something is NOT a belief.

Again quite correct.

The problem lies with those who strongly advise that "There is no God". That is a belief they have come to. Belief can be about anything and so can faith. It is not isolated to the idea of 'godliness' alone.

ie: A staunch atheist who advocates the position that there is no God puts his faith in the non-existence. It is faith because an atheist cannot prove it.



sp edit

[edit on 5/11/09 by masqua]

reply to post by Snarf

because atheists always have a way out

Way out of what? :-)

"I dont believe in God!"

What would you have them say instead? They're atheists.

and some how they're allowed to keep on going calling the rest of us idiots and morons.

"They"? All of "they" or just some of "they"?

What do you mean by allowed? Do you mean it in the same way theists are allowed to decide who is moral and who is not? Who is right and wrong, good and bad?

I call them out because some of them are the doing very thing they're out there bashing.

:-)

At least here you use the word “some.” My point exactly – so why the thread?

You’re really calling them out because you don’t like being told you’re stupid.

Who does? But that road goes both ways.

"Spreading their faith"

Not accurate – how about countering the spreading of faith?

You see it as proselytizing? I see it as opposition to proselytizing.

I don't bash them for doing what they want to do, or believing what they believe.

You do – you’re doing it here – now.

Instead of recognizing that all sorts of people are opinionated, arrogant, demanding, controlling and insulting – you’ve separated yourself from the “bad” Christians so that you can do exactly what you’re complaining about. You’ve singled out the atheists for special treatment. And so it goes...

But they (most of the ones i've talked to) think that it's okay to call me a moron for believing in God, but not for me to say "just shut up and ill believe what i want to believe"

To that I say – it’s a shame you don’t know the atheists I know.

Besides, they have their own complaints – something along the lines of “I’m entitled to my own way of thinking.”

Notice I didn’t use the word belief.



[edit on 11/5/2009 by Spiramirabilis]

reply to post by ELECTRICkoolaidZOMBIEtest


*sigh*
i can see you choose to take the "i dont know the definition of a word" path as to make yourself look right...so allow me to do the hard work for you:

Faith - noun

belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.

source



Belief - noun

something believed; an opinion or conviction: a belief that the earth is flat.

Source


You have an opinion (aka belief) that God does not exist.

You cannot prove it.

So by a definition that might as well be written in crayon.

You have faith that God does not exist.

"Now, faith is the substance of things to be hoped for, the evidence of things that appear not." Hebrews 11:1

You're quoting the definition of faith from the BIBLE.

Talk about a cop-out move.

[edit on 5-11-2009 by Snarf]

[edit on 5-11-2009 by Snarf]

What if your religious or spiritual beliefs are further reinforced and justified by continued scientific advancements and science leads you to a deeper spiritual understanding?

I'm not an atheist nor am I a member of any religion, I don't think you can understand the universe with only half of the equation.

reply to post by Snarf

Far be it from me to deny that there are religious zealots every where. Christian, Muslim, Jewish, etc...each religion has their own sector of robot-minded idiots who seek to tell the rest of the world how to live their lives else go to hell.

Agreed, sounds like most if not all of the religiously minded folks I have come across.

But i see this very same thing from snot-nosed Atheists as well.

Snot-nosed? Hmm... Only when I have a cold.

Touting intellectual superiority...wearing their IQ on their sleeve...trying to bully around people who believe in God.

It's not so much bullying them for believing in God, but more of correcting them where they are wrong when arguing against the science of thing's. Especially when they bring science in as proof of their personal deity of choice. It's not our fault if religious folks can't bother to learn their science and use it faultily.

I mean seriously - why is it so crucial to your mental stability that you must go shout it from the mountains and throw it in the faces of anyone who has religion?

By that logic, let's bash all the teachers who give stupid kids bad grades for not learning the material.

Because 10 years ago, someone did it to you?

I'm not sure where you draw that conclusion, can you prove it?

Don't you realize that by the standards of the philosophy you choose to follow, you are defeating your own cause?

So, by telling people where they are wrong in their usage of science is defeating the science itself? I see so many holes with that statement; And yet you wonder why we seem more intelligent.

(yes, i believe in God, just in a slightly different way) and my Beliefs do not force me to require proof of existence in order to believe and be happy. I have faith.

It doesn't force you to require proof because you know there is no proof, hence your requirement for faith.

Your belief structure, however, does. You require proof in order to believe something to be true. But with a complete absence of proof, you believe that God does not exist, and you go shouting it from the mountains. All without a single shred of proof.

Yes, science is about evidence and proof and without such much of what we know today wouldn't be known at all. Without evidence and proof being a requirement we can just run around and believe whatever the heck we want and call it a valid logical belief, thankfully that idea is just absurd. We also can certainly disprove all man made concepts of deity by tracing back through recorded history and find where those concepts originally came from. For instance, your concept of a monotheistic entity comes originally from the biblical God as there is no other 'one God' system of belief like it in the world to have originated from. Seeing as how you admit to changing your personal belief from the original belief we can readily disprove it as you also admit to have no evidence for this new concept of the original concept.

Belief in something without proof is called faith.

Which is faulty, we don't still believe in rain God's after learning about the water cycle.

So i guess Atheists have faith too, after all?

I can't speak for all atheists, but as for myself I don't readily discount the possibility of a God like entity or fifty-nine of them, I only discount the possibility of any entity being the one invented by error prone humans.

And in closing, i don't align myself with any official religion of today. I believe in God, i believe in Christ, but i don't call myself a Christian. I don't attend church, and i think televangelists are the devil in disguise.

By definition, you are a Christian. A Christian is anyone who accepts Jesus as the Messiah.

But i don't know if you'll go to hell for not "believing". I think as long as you're a good person, you're fine. Far be it from an Atheist to allow me to think that way and leave it at that, however.

If we look at the original concept of monotheism, there is no hell.

So Christians and Atheists are a lot alike.

I disagree, they have faith in their deity and Messiah without evidence of either, whereas we can systematically show that neither are real.

Modern Christians (and Jews, and Muslims..etc) will tell you that you're going to hell for being queer.

Yes, it's sad that religious thought has and does bring about the worst in people. Sort of like your snot-nosed comment towards atheists.

And Modern Atheists will tell you that you're a knuckle dragging retard for believe in God.

No atheist is stopping a religious person from learning more about the universe in which they exist.

Neither side of the coin, in this case, has a damn clue what is really going on.

Agreed; Yet science is certainly open to the possibility of a creator, science just doesn't inherently put faith in one as science is about evidence. Without evidence of a creator there is no reason for science to subscribe to the idea of one. Religious folks erroneously think science is inherently against all thing's supernatural.

reply to post by Snarf

wrong. It requires faith. Every atheist i've ever talked to says "i dont believe in God because there's no scientific proof"

Faith implies knowing without requiring evidence; That is the exact opposite of atheism which is knowing by requiring evidence.

And there's no scientific proof to disprove God either.

Against your invented concept of God, there certainly is. It's called recorded history.

Faith is defined (basically) as believing in something without proof

You don't believe in God, that's believing ins omething

you have no proof

you have faith.

Semantics argument in an erroneous attempt to prove your claim. Faulty logic or more correct, piss poor logic.

reply to post by Snarf


Oh diddums.... you're getting upset because not everyone wants to buy into pathetic little fairytales.

....Having no belief in god doesn't require any beliefs at all - no more than choosing not to believe in spaghetti monsters. Why does any religious belief hold any more merit than a spaghetti monster belief?!

You really have issues, but at least you appear to be on the path to realising just why, rather than gleefully living the delusion.

[edit on 5-11-2009 by john124]

reply to post by john124

Oh diddums.... you're getting upset because not everyone wants to buy into pathetic little fairytales.

no, actually im not

im upset because people like you THINK they can be condescending (like you) to me for no reason other than i choose to believe in God.

Im not forcing my faith on you, why do you insist on forcing yours on me?

That, since you probably didnt know, is called hypocrisy.



[edit on 5-11-2009 by Snarf]

double post

[edit on 5-11-2009 by Snarf]

reply to post by Snarf

Im not forcing my faith on you, why do you insist on forcing yours on me?

No one from the scientific community or those who only believe in thing's if there is evidence for them is forcing you folks to do anything. Heck, look at the Amish community, we're sure as hell are not forcing them to do anything, they don't seem to feel forced at least. Now if you'll excuse me while I pull out a dollar bill "In God We Trust"; AH! Now *that* is what I call forcing faith!

reply to post by sirnex


So, a country that is founded on "freedom of religion" is forcing God upon you by saying "in God we trust"???

And someone accused me of semantics.

And yes, every single Atheist I've ever spoken to has talked down to me like i'm some kind of damned idiot.


And unfortunately - ATS is no exception.

Deny Ignorance? Yeah right.

reply to post by Snarf

So, a country that is founded on "freedom of religion" is forcing God upon you by saying "in God we trust"???

Considering that the constitution does not allow such thing's as that, then yes it can be considered forcing one particular faith upon the whole of the nation.

And someone accused me of semantics.

I would advice learning what semantics is as it doesn't inherently apply here.

And yes, every single Atheist I've ever spoken to has talked down to me like i'm some kind of damned idiot.

Considering some of the thing's I have seen you argue... Perhaps you need to look at why they talk to you that way. Ah, reminds me of someone else here on ATS wondering why everyone was calling him a hypocrite when he was being a hypocrite.

Deny Ignorance? Yeah right.

AGREED!

Ignorance is the state in which one lacks knowledge, is unaware of something or chooses to subjectively ignore information

LINK

reply to post by sirnex


Like i said.

Condescending and uppity.

Yet...without reason to be.



You proved my point by trying to prove yours. Have a good day sir.

reply to post by Snarf

Yet...without reason to be.

I disagree, the very nature of your insulting remarks towards atheists in general is ample reason to counter argue what is blatantly obviously wrong conclusions. I haven't seen you attempt to refute anything I have said, so how is this proof of your argument?

The reason atheists call people who believe in god morons is because they don't believe in hell so thats their way of saying you'll go to hell if you don't believe what I believe. And whereas a person of god acts all high and mighty with a holier than thou attitude an atheist will have an attitude towards theists where they are more intelligent being. So its really just the same as all religions you have cool people and you have douchebags. Thats why I have no religion because I can believe what I want to believe and not affiliate myself with the douchebags or be stereotyped.

Originally posted by Snarf
But i see this very same thing from snot-nosed Atheists as well.

I have to agree with you. Some atheists treat their beliefs as a "religion" and I think they give atheism a bad name, trying to get others to believe as they do... I don't understand it. Except maybe they think religion is the great evil and think the world should be rid of religion... I can understand that, but I don't think it's right for ANYONE to force their beliefs on another.

There are Christians who give Christianity a bad name, Muslims who give Islam a bad name and so on... It only makes sense that there are atheists who give atheism a bad name.

Originally posted by Snarf
Belief in something without proof is called faith.

So i guess Atheists have faith too, after all?

No. You are right in saying that belief IN something without proof is faith, but atheists don't believe IN something. Religious people believe IN something (god). Atheists don't.

Far be it from an Atheist to allow me to think that way and leave it at that, however.

Please don't group all atheists in one basket. I will support you to have your beliefs and I'll leave it at that. I'll not try to get you to believe as I do. I'll not judge your beliefs (unless you ask me to)...

You see, there are plenty of atheists who don't care what you believe and don't care to "shout their beliefs from the mountaintops"... But then, you'd never hear from us, would you? Please know that the "snot-nosed" atheists you hear from do not represent all atheists. We're here. We just don't care what you believe. I'm not trying to be rude. I just don't have any investment in what others believe.

By the time one accomplishes adulthood, religion is something that has typically been settled on; and usually through much thought and study.

It's complicated. Religion is very complicated, and can be both very cerebral and very emotional. We take different paths in our beliefs.
The path taken was probably not without thought, study, experience, and some revelation or another. It's a personal process.

So for whatever reason, whatever path, we should try to respect other's decision's in these matters.

I've never had anyone condescend to me because of my beliefs, but I have indeed seen it here on this very thread. I find it very unsavory.

It makes more of a statement about the person who is doing the condescending, making the judgments, moreso than the person who is being rediculed, or the thought or religion that is being disparaged.

It says to me "I have no respect for myself, so why should I respect you?"

But moreso: "I have no respect for my own beliefs, so why should I respect yours?"

That is what I hear when I see someone being openly disrespectful to another person and/or their religious beliefs.

I suspect there are others who feel the same.