reply to post by Snarf
I find the condescension insulting...you poor little simp, you are too weak to handle the difficulties of life so you turn to this fairy tale to make
it through life. That is not it at all. I have done and continue to do research and weigh information I see and hear and I come to my conclusions.
I don't mind if you disagree, I will simply pray for you. : ) But don't think I am an idiot because I have come to different conclusions than
you.
And regarding science and religion, I don't think they are necessarily exclusive of each other. I have come across Walter Veith, a Seventh Day
Adventis and scientist...all at the same time! I really like listening to him discuss scientific things and show how not all science disproves
Biblical things.
Atheism...the new Christianity , page 2
privacy
reply posted on 5-11-2009 @ 12:19 AM by HunkaHunka
Originally posted by Jauqx
What I can't handle is the diffusion if corrupt and degenertaing ideas such as organized religion does i.e the people who spread it.
If you are mentally ill and believe in those fairy tales, keep it to yourself. If not, I reserve my RIGHT to mock and ridicule!
[edit on 4-11-2009 by Jauqx]
Just as an aside, you don't have to be mentally ill to believe in fairy tales. As a matter of fact, what you choose to accept as truth is completely up to you and everyone else.
You can even write your own narrative and believe in that if you want to.
Personally I'm an Autotheist.
reply posted on 5-11-2009 @ 02:46 AM by ELECTRICkoolaidZOMBIEtest
reply to post by Snarf
bravo for faiing to prove atheists have faith.
atheism is not believing in god.
how the hell does that require faith?
im not convinced of it. im not saying there is no god (THAT would require proof)
saying im not convinced a god exists is not a leap of faith.
to rephrase...not believing in something is NOT a belief.
here
"Now, faith is the substance of things to be hoped for, the evidence of things that appear not." Hebrews 11:1
tell me how not believing in god is faith.
[edit on 5-11-2009 by ELECTRICkoolaidZOMBIEtest]
bravo for faiing to prove atheists have faith.
atheism is not believing in god.
how the hell does that require faith?
im not convinced of it. im not saying there is no god (THAT would require proof)
saying im not convinced a god exists is not a leap of faith.
to rephrase...not believing in something is NOT a belief.
here
"Now, faith is the substance of things to be hoped for, the evidence of things that appear not." Hebrews 11:1
tell me how not believing in god is faith.
[edit on 5-11-2009 by ELECTRICkoolaidZOMBIEtest]
reply posted on 5-11-2009 @ 08:36 AM by Spiramirabilis
reply to post by Snarf
Way out of what? :-)
What would you have them say instead? They're atheists.
"They"? All of "they" or just some of "they"?
What do you mean by allowed? Do you mean it in the same way theists are allowed to decide who is moral and who is not? Who is right and wrong, good and bad?
:-)
At least here you use the word “some.” My point exactly – so why the thread?
You’re really calling them out because you don’t like being told you’re stupid.
Who does? But that road goes both ways.
Not accurate – how about countering the spreading of faith?
You see it as proselytizing? I see it as opposition to proselytizing.
You do – you’re doing it here – now.
Instead of recognizing that all sorts of people are opinionated, arrogant, demanding, controlling and insulting – you’ve separated yourself from the “bad” Christians so that you can do exactly what you’re complaining about. You’ve singled out the atheists for special treatment. And so it goes...
To that I say – it’s a shame you don’t know the atheists I know.
Besides, they have their own complaints – something along the lines of “I’m entitled to my own way of thinking.”
Notice I didn’t use the word belief.
[edit on 11/5/2009 by Spiramirabilis]
because atheists always have a way out
Way out of what? :-)
"I dont believe in God!"
What would you have them say instead? They're atheists.
and some how they're allowed to keep on going calling the rest of us idiots and morons.
"They"? All of "they" or just some of "they"?
What do you mean by allowed? Do you mean it in the same way theists are allowed to decide who is moral and who is not? Who is right and wrong, good and bad?
I call them out because some of them are the doing very thing they're out there bashing.
:-)
At least here you use the word “some.” My point exactly – so why the thread?
You’re really calling them out because you don’t like being told you’re stupid.
Who does? But that road goes both ways.
"Spreading their faith"
Not accurate – how about countering the spreading of faith?
You see it as proselytizing? I see it as opposition to proselytizing.
I don't bash them for doing what they want to do, or believing what they believe.
You do – you’re doing it here – now.
Instead of recognizing that all sorts of people are opinionated, arrogant, demanding, controlling and insulting – you’ve separated yourself from the “bad” Christians so that you can do exactly what you’re complaining about. You’ve singled out the atheists for special treatment. And so it goes...
But they (most of the ones i've talked to) think that it's okay to call me a moron for believing in God, but not for me to say "just shut up and ill believe what i want to believe"
To that I say – it’s a shame you don’t know the atheists I know.
Besides, they have their own complaints – something along the lines of “I’m entitled to my own way of thinking.”
Notice I didn’t use the word belief.
[edit on 11/5/2009 by Spiramirabilis]
reply posted on 5-11-2009 @ 09:12 AM by Snarf
reply to post by ELECTRICkoolaidZOMBIEtest
*sigh*
i can see you choose to take the "i dont know the definition of a word" path as to make yourself look right...so allow me to do the hard work for you:
Faith - noun
source
Belief - noun
Source
You have an opinion (aka belief) that God does not exist.
You cannot prove it.
So by a definition that might as well be written in crayon.
You have faith that God does not exist.
You're quoting the definition of faith from the BIBLE.
Talk about a cop-out move.
[edit on 5-11-2009 by Snarf]
[edit on 5-11-2009 by Snarf]
*sigh*
i can see you choose to take the "i dont know the definition of a word" path as to make yourself look right...so allow me to do the hard work for you:
Faith - noun
belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.
source
Belief - noun
something believed; an opinion or conviction: a belief that the earth is flat.
Source
You have an opinion (aka belief) that God does not exist.
You cannot prove it.
So by a definition that might as well be written in crayon.
You have faith that God does not exist.
"Now, faith is the substance of things to be hoped for, the evidence of things that appear not." Hebrews 11:1
You're quoting the definition of faith from the BIBLE.
Talk about a cop-out move.
[edit on 5-11-2009 by Snarf]
[edit on 5-11-2009 by Snarf]
reply posted on 5-11-2009 @ 12:28 PM by sirnex
reply to post by Snarf
Agreed, sounds like most if not all of the religiously minded folks I have come across.
Snot-nosed? Hmm... Only when I have a cold.
It's not so much bullying them for believing in God, but more of correcting them where they are wrong when arguing against the science of thing's. Especially when they bring science in as proof of their personal deity of choice. It's not our fault if religious folks can't bother to learn their science and use it faultily.
By that logic, let's bash all the teachers who give stupid kids bad grades for not learning the material.
I'm not sure where you draw that conclusion, can you prove it?
So, by telling people where they are wrong in their usage of science is defeating the science itself? I see so many holes with that statement; And yet you wonder why we seem more intelligent.
It doesn't force you to require proof because you know there is no proof, hence your requirement for faith.
Yes, science is about evidence and proof and without such much of what we know today wouldn't be known at all. Without evidence and proof being a requirement we can just run around and believe whatever the heck we want and call it a valid logical belief, thankfully that idea is just absurd. We also can certainly disprove all man made concepts of deity by tracing back through recorded history and find where those concepts originally came from. For instance, your concept of a monotheistic entity comes originally from the biblical God as there is no other 'one God' system of belief like it in the world to have originated from. Seeing as how you admit to changing your personal belief from the original belief we can readily disprove it as you also admit to have no evidence for this new concept of the original concept.
Which is faulty, we don't still believe in rain God's after learning about the water cycle.
I can't speak for all atheists, but as for myself I don't readily discount the possibility of a God like entity or fifty-nine of them, I only discount the possibility of any entity being the one invented by error prone humans.
By definition, you are a Christian. A Christian is anyone who accepts Jesus as the Messiah.
If we look at the original concept of monotheism, there is no hell.
I disagree, they have faith in their deity and Messiah without evidence of either, whereas we can systematically show that neither are real.
Yes, it's sad that religious thought has and does bring about the worst in people. Sort of like your snot-nosed comment towards atheists.
No atheist is stopping a religious person from learning more about the universe in which they exist.
Agreed; Yet science is certainly open to the possibility of a creator, science just doesn't inherently put faith in one as science is about evidence. Without evidence of a creator there is no reason for science to subscribe to the idea of one. Religious folks erroneously think science is inherently against all thing's supernatural.
Far be it from me to deny that there are religious zealots every where. Christian, Muslim, Jewish, etc...each religion has their own sector of robot-minded idiots who seek to tell the rest of the world how to live their lives else go to hell.
Agreed, sounds like most if not all of the religiously minded folks I have come across.
But i see this very same thing from snot-nosed Atheists as well.
Snot-nosed? Hmm... Only when I have a cold.
Touting intellectual superiority...wearing their IQ on their sleeve...trying to bully around people who believe in God.
It's not so much bullying them for believing in God, but more of correcting them where they are wrong when arguing against the science of thing's. Especially when they bring science in as proof of their personal deity of choice. It's not our fault if religious folks can't bother to learn their science and use it faultily.
I mean seriously - why is it so crucial to your mental stability that you must go shout it from the mountains and throw it in the faces of anyone who has religion?
By that logic, let's bash all the teachers who give stupid kids bad grades for not learning the material.
Because 10 years ago, someone did it to you?
I'm not sure where you draw that conclusion, can you prove it?
Don't you realize that by the standards of the philosophy you choose to follow, you are defeating your own cause?
So, by telling people where they are wrong in their usage of science is defeating the science itself? I see so many holes with that statement; And yet you wonder why we seem more intelligent.
(yes, i believe in God, just in a slightly different way) and my Beliefs do not force me to require proof of existence in order to believe and be happy. I have faith.
It doesn't force you to require proof because you know there is no proof, hence your requirement for faith.
Your belief structure, however, does. You require proof in order to believe something to be true. But with a complete absence of proof, you believe that God does not exist, and you go shouting it from the mountains. All without a single shred of proof.
Yes, science is about evidence and proof and without such much of what we know today wouldn't be known at all. Without evidence and proof being a requirement we can just run around and believe whatever the heck we want and call it a valid logical belief, thankfully that idea is just absurd. We also can certainly disprove all man made concepts of deity by tracing back through recorded history and find where those concepts originally came from. For instance, your concept of a monotheistic entity comes originally from the biblical God as there is no other 'one God' system of belief like it in the world to have originated from. Seeing as how you admit to changing your personal belief from the original belief we can readily disprove it as you also admit to have no evidence for this new concept of the original concept.
Belief in something without proof is called faith.
Which is faulty, we don't still believe in rain God's after learning about the water cycle.
So i guess Atheists have faith too, after all?
I can't speak for all atheists, but as for myself I don't readily discount the possibility of a God like entity or fifty-nine of them, I only discount the possibility of any entity being the one invented by error prone humans.
And in closing, i don't align myself with any official religion of today. I believe in God, i believe in Christ, but i don't call myself a Christian. I don't attend church, and i think televangelists are the devil in disguise.
By definition, you are a Christian. A Christian is anyone who accepts Jesus as the Messiah.
But i don't know if you'll go to hell for not "believing". I think as long as you're a good person, you're fine. Far be it from an Atheist to allow me to think that way and leave it at that, however.
If we look at the original concept of monotheism, there is no hell.
So Christians and Atheists are a lot alike.
I disagree, they have faith in their deity and Messiah without evidence of either, whereas we can systematically show that neither are real.
Modern Christians (and Jews, and Muslims..etc) will tell you that you're going to hell for being queer.
Yes, it's sad that religious thought has and does bring about the worst in people. Sort of like your snot-nosed comment towards atheists.
And Modern Atheists will tell you that you're a knuckle dragging retard for believe in God.
No atheist is stopping a religious person from learning more about the universe in which they exist.
Neither side of the coin, in this case, has a damn clue what is really going on.
Agreed; Yet science is certainly open to the possibility of a creator, science just doesn't inherently put faith in one as science is about evidence. Without evidence of a creator there is no reason for science to subscribe to the idea of one. Religious folks erroneously think science is inherently against all thing's supernatural.
reply posted on 5-11-2009 @ 12:33 PM by sirnex
reply to post by Snarf
Faith implies knowing without requiring evidence; That is the exact opposite of atheism which is knowing by requiring evidence.
Against your invented concept of God, there certainly is. It's called recorded history.
Semantics argument in an erroneous attempt to prove your claim. Faulty logic or more correct, piss poor logic.
wrong. It requires faith. Every atheist i've ever talked to says "i dont believe in God because there's no scientific proof"
Faith implies knowing without requiring evidence; That is the exact opposite of atheism which is knowing by requiring evidence.
And there's no scientific proof to disprove God either.
Against your invented concept of God, there certainly is. It's called recorded history.
Faith is defined (basically) as believing in something without proof
You don't believe in God, that's believing ins omething
you have no proof
you have faith.
Semantics argument in an erroneous attempt to prove your claim. Faulty logic or more correct, piss poor logic.
reply posted on 5-11-2009 @ 12:54 PM by john124
reply to post by Snarf
Oh diddums.... you're getting upset because not everyone wants to buy into pathetic little fairytales.
....Having no belief in god doesn't require any beliefs at all - no more than choosing not to believe in spaghetti monsters. Why does any religious belief hold any more merit than a spaghetti monster belief?!
You really have issues, but at least you appear to be on the path to realising just why, rather than gleefully living the delusion.
[edit on 5-11-2009 by john124]
Oh diddums.... you're getting upset because not everyone wants to buy into pathetic little fairytales.
....Having no belief in god doesn't require any beliefs at all - no more than choosing not to believe in spaghetti monsters. Why does any religious belief hold any more merit than a spaghetti monster belief?!
You really have issues, but at least you appear to be on the path to realising just why, rather than gleefully living the delusion.
[edit on 5-11-2009 by john124]
reply posted on 5-11-2009 @ 03:31 PM by Snarf
reply to post by john124
no, actually im not
im upset because people like you THINK they can be condescending (like you) to me for no reason other than i choose to believe in God.
Im not forcing my faith on you, why do you insist on forcing yours on me?
That, since you probably didnt know, is called hypocrisy.
[edit on 5-11-2009 by Snarf]
Oh diddums.... you're getting upset because not everyone wants to buy into pathetic little fairytales.
no, actually im not
im upset because people like you THINK they can be condescending (like you) to me for no reason other than i choose to believe in God.
Im not forcing my faith on you, why do you insist on forcing yours on me?
That, since you probably didnt know, is called hypocrisy.
[edit on 5-11-2009 by Snarf]
reply posted on 5-11-2009 @ 03:44 PM by sirnex
reply to post by Snarf
No one from the scientific community or those who only believe in thing's if there is evidence for them is forcing you folks to do anything. Heck, look at the Amish community, we're sure as hell are not forcing them to do anything, they don't seem to feel forced at least. Now if you'll excuse me while I pull out a dollar bill "In God We Trust"; AH! Now *that* is what I call forcing faith!
Im not forcing my faith on you, why do you insist on forcing yours on me?
No one from the scientific community or those who only believe in thing's if there is evidence for them is forcing you folks to do anything. Heck, look at the Amish community, we're sure as hell are not forcing them to do anything, they don't seem to feel forced at least. Now if you'll excuse me while I pull out a dollar bill "In God We Trust"; AH! Now *that* is what I call forcing faith!
reply posted on 5-11-2009 @ 03:47 PM by Snarf
reply to post by sirnex
So, a country that is founded on "freedom of religion" is forcing God upon you by saying "in God we trust"???
And someone accused me of semantics.
And yes, every single Atheist I've ever spoken to has talked down to me like i'm some kind of damned idiot.
And unfortunately - ATS is no exception.
Deny Ignorance? Yeah right.
So, a country that is founded on "freedom of religion" is forcing God upon you by saying "in God we trust"???
And someone accused me of semantics.
And yes, every single Atheist I've ever spoken to has talked down to me like i'm some kind of damned idiot.
And unfortunately - ATS is no exception.
Deny Ignorance? Yeah right.
reply posted on 5-11-2009 @ 03:52 PM by sirnex
reply to post by Snarf
Considering that the constitution does not allow such thing's as that, then yes it can be considered forcing one particular faith upon the whole of the nation.
I would advice learning what semantics is as it doesn't inherently apply here.
Considering some of the thing's I have seen you argue... Perhaps you need to look at why they talk to you that way. Ah, reminds me of someone else here on ATS wondering why everyone was calling him a hypocrite when he was being a hypocrite.
AGREED!
So, a country that is founded on "freedom of religion" is forcing God upon you by saying "in God we trust"???
Considering that the constitution does not allow such thing's as that, then yes it can be considered forcing one particular faith upon the whole of the nation.
And someone accused me of semantics.
I would advice learning what semantics is as it doesn't inherently apply here.
And yes, every single Atheist I've ever spoken to has talked down to me like i'm some kind of damned idiot.
Considering some of the thing's I have seen you argue... Perhaps you need to look at why they talk to you that way. Ah, reminds me of someone else here on ATS wondering why everyone was calling him a hypocrite when he was being a hypocrite.
Deny Ignorance? Yeah right.
AGREED!
Ignorance is the state in which one lacks knowledge, is unaware of something or chooses to subjectively ignore informationLINK
reply posted on 5-11-2009 @ 03:53 PM by Snarf
reply to post by sirnex
Like i said.
Condescending and uppity.
Yet...without reason to be.
You proved my point by trying to prove yours. Have a good day sir.
Like i said.
Condescending and uppity.
Yet...without reason to be.
You proved my point by trying to prove yours. Have a good day sir.
reply posted on 5-11-2009 @ 04:03 PM by sirnex
reply to post by Snarf
I disagree, the very nature of your insulting remarks towards atheists in general is ample reason to counter argue what is blatantly obviously wrong conclusions. I haven't seen you attempt to refute anything I have said, so how is this proof of your argument?
Yet...without reason to be.
I disagree, the very nature of your insulting remarks towards atheists in general is ample reason to counter argue what is blatantly obviously wrong conclusions. I haven't seen you attempt to refute anything I have said, so how is this proof of your argument?
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