Do we actually need to beg for oil ??

NO !

here is the alternative that can free the western world
from paying high oil prices :

www.eskimo.com...

[Edited on 19-5-2004 by John bull 1]

Well, we certainly don't need to beg for oil because their are alternatives to fuel but the reality is the U.S. government is determined to make us believe that oil is the only thing we need to survive. Don't ever believe what the government tells you. I certainly don't.

Actually, Alaska has tons of oil...... literally.. ha ha ha

but, It is not being drilled to much. It is being kept for future sale...

but anyway...two of the cars are driving in the streets here already !!
general motors / opel antwerpen belgium are testdriving them in traffic and showing them to the general public.
i believe,because have seen the product,this is THE way to escape the arab oil ripp off and...also have the enviroment cleaner too

costs can be lower if produced in mass !!
joint ventures of carmanufacturers can also help a lot and saving costs by not doing double or triple research for same results !

[Edited on 19-5-2004 by NOGODSINTHEUNIVERSE]

[Edited on 19-5-2004 by NOGODSINTHEUNIVERSE]

Originally posted by NOGODSINTHEUNIVERSE
but anyway...two of the cars are driving in the streets here already !!
general motors / opel antwerpen belgium are testdriving them in traffic and showing them to the general public.
i believe,because have seen the product,this is THE way to escape the arab oil ripp off and...also have the enviroment cleaner too

costs can be lower is produces in mass !!
joint ventures of carmanufacturers can also help a lot and saving costs by doing double or triple research for same results !

Well, I hope they do produce hydrogen cars in masses soon because if gas prices continue to rise people will have no choice but to find other means of transportation to work. And if they can't who knows what will happen.

that's all we need :


The hydrogen-fueled engine has been identified as a viable power unit for ultra-low emission series-hybrid vehicles. The Wankel engine is particularly well suited to the use of hydrogen fuel, since its design minimizes most of the combustion difficulties. In order to evaluate the possibilities offered by the hydrogen fueled rotary engine, dynamometer tests were conducted with a small (2.2 kW) Wankel engine fueled with hydrogen. Preliminary results show an absence of the combustion difficulties present with hydrogen-fueled homogeneous charge piston engines. The engine was operated unthrottled and power output was controlled by quality governing, i.e. by varying the fuel-air equivalence ratio on the lean side of stoichiometric. The ability to operate with quality governing is made possible by the wide flammability limits of hydrogen-air mixtures. NO[sub x] emissions are on the order of 5 ppm for power outputs up to 70% of the maximum attainable on hydrogen fuel. Thus, by operating with very lean mixtures, which effectively derates the engine, very low NO[sub x] emissions can be achieved. Since the rotary engine has a characteristically high power to weight ratio and a small volume per unit power compared to the piston engine, operating a rotary engine on hydrogen and derating the power output could yield an engine with extremely low emissions which still has weight and volume characteristics comparable to a gasoline-fueled piston engine. Finally, since engine weight and volume affect vehicle design, and consequently in-use vehicle power requirements, those factors, as well as engine efficiency, must be taken into account in evaluating overall hybrid vehicle efficiency.




www.monito.com...

What about the Tar Sands in Alberta hmm? I heard some Prof. speaking on discovery the other day that Alberta was fast becoming Saudi Arabias equal in terms of daily output, and by 2010 it will be double. Don't know why people werent pumping oil there before(technology maybe ) but its seems like a much more convienent source for the US in the short term. HOWEVER, I believe Oil and the Infernal Combustion Engine is going the way of the Dino someday soon...

the problem with the tar sands in canada is it takes more oil in energy to extract the oil from the grit than it will provide in actual oil output. In short its not worth the effort to be valuable for mass transportation needs.

Then how come Alberta is booming right now? Perhaps new techniques are making it cheaper(however much a loath Oil). I'll try to dig up some links to back up my statements, but I'm pretty sure its as significant as alaska(pure speculation on my part). Oh well, I guess its my fault for my ignorance on this technology because I hate it so and only look at the after affects of Oil spills and warming charts of various regions of planet etc etc etc.......

Being a Green Activist I can't help but feel I'm fighting a losing battle, but I gotta continue for the sake of our great-grandchildren....

There is a load of oil of the coast of British Columbia as well, it's just never been tapped.

Does anybody seriously think humans will not suck every last drop of oil out of the earth?? (and deposit it into the atmosphere!!)

if you can switch from "a squeesed lemon" paying higher and higher oilprices that polute like hell
to a "relaxed sweet peach" with gentle prices and exhaustgas of only PURE WATER VAPOUR ...
the choice will not be difficult i think

They will not stop squeezing the lemon until all the oil is gone, and here is no more money to be made from it. Then they will go on to other sources of fuel.

if almost nobody want the arabs'oil...they will get stuck with it !
it is just a matter of logical thinking by either each government and the customers !
the choice is so obvious that the arabs will drown in their own oilreserves.

Originally posted by NOGODSINTHEUNIVERSEit is just a matter of logical thinking by either each government and the customers !

That's just the thing, these people aren't thinking logically! The only thing that motivates them is money.

The only thing that motivates them is money.

One word: SHEEPLE

People/sheeple are lazy. They will not buy a car that runs off of an alternative energy source unless they have to. Oil is conmfortable to them, hydrigen fuel cells are not. So they won't change unless they have to.

Another problem we have yet to address is that oil is used to produce plastic. And unless anyone knows of another way to make plastic the oil running out is going to be a lot more catastrophic than just cars not running. Try making most things in our modern world without oil plastic

it can be done !
anyway...
you still have to fill up the car so instead of the usual tankstations with petrol you tank at a hydrogen tankstation
the only thing that is taken away is the "sword" of heavy oil prices to be paid to the arabis in exchange.

performance of the car will be even better with hydrogen !
see in above posting for the links

Hmm interesting just read the article. Too bad he can't give out more details, probably because someone would steal the ideas from him. Very interesting idea though....

The bad europeans are working on it since some years - there is a lot of support from the government and industry for it.
Car manufacturing like BMW or Mercedes are already developing cars that equal the current ones but with hydrogen.

To do this job in America our neighbours send over Arni he is pushing it forward in Cal.

www.hynet.info...
www.hyweb.de...

NOGODSINTHEUNIVERSE,

Interesting thread. I agree with you that the U.S. doesn't need to "beg for oil". That's why I've never understood those who claim that the war in Iraq is a war for oil. If we really needed the oil that badly, wouldn't it have been more economical to use the money spent on the war to develop technologies to exploit the oil sands in Canada, and to allow drilling in Alaska?? It most definitely would have been better politically for Pres. Bush. Also, if one really believes that Pres. Bush started the war to enrich his friends in the Oil companies, wouldn't they stand to make more profits if the oil was from American or Canadian oil fields, and not Iraqi owned fields?

I could be wrong, but as the previous posts indicate, if the U.S. really needed oil that badly, there were plenty of other options available to them, rather than invading Iraq. IMO: the claim that the war in Iraq is a war for oil, Just doesn't hold water.

-Cypher

still...
everybody should do a little bit to be free of the "oil" energy !

invest now to place solarcells for your personal electric energy at home !

windenergy is good but the "windmills" can be "coming under attack" if they are standing in the open as energyparcs !

the explanation that the war is for oil or just bush & friends is been taken up by propaganda against the USA ofcourse
just ignore it