Tea Party Movement Scores Its First Political Scalp

reply to post by jdub297


Not too long back with Bachman and her fellow Rinos hosting another tea party rally.... atleast folks came out of the woodwork and admitted where they stood by standing hand in hand with the RINOs and the neocons.

This isnt a movement away from the two parties. This is, as Hal had stated, a battle for who gets control over the republican party, and the DC meet up between teaparties and republicans should have added to that fact.

Congratulations though, if anything the meet up in DC showed us how the fringe rightwing managed to win the battle over where that party goes.

www.politico.com...

Seriously though we can get both the republicans and the teapartiers dancing together and you'll still proclaim this movement as third party and against both parties. Please.....


[edit on 7-11-2009 by Southern Guardian]

reply to post by Southern Guardian

Perhaps the protesters will draw more true conservatives out of the Republican/Moderate/Liberal triptych and into the formerly-silent majority they constitute:

Even Politico's coverage wasn't so much on the protesters as it was on the Congresswomen and men who came over to them:

By the time activists started arriving at the foot of the Capitol around 8:30 a.m., it was clear no Republican leader could stay away.

www.politico.com...

As the MSM are beginning to realize, "Tea Party" Conservatives are becoming seen as mainstream America, as they have for generations before the creation and expansion of the liberal welfare state.

There is a crisis on the horizon for national Republican leadership. Events are beyond the control of John Boehner, Eric Cantor, Mitch McConnell and Michael Steele. The bees have begun to swarm and it will be very difficult to get them back in the hive.

www.politico.com...

Of course, the frightened liberals will cling to their portrayal of Tea Party Conservatives as "fringers," just as you have done from the start.

Too late, you will see where the "fringe" really is.

To be sure, the tea party movement has its fringe elements, as did the revolt against British tyranny, which the establishment of its day disparaged. So too does the Obama administration, some of whom have already resigned. The basic question, however, is what does the movement stand for? What are its principles?

And on that, the contrast with the Obama vision is stark: However much confusion there might be on specific issues, which is to be expected, the broad principles are clear. The tea party movement stands for limited constitutional government. At its rallies, on hand-written sign after sign, that was the message repeatedly seen. These are ordinary Americans -- Republicans, Independents, and even Democrats -- who want simply to be left alone to plan and live their own lives. The don't want "community organizers" to help empower them to get more from government.

But they do need to be organized to bring that about -- to get government off their backs. And the Republican Party should be the natural vehicle toward that end -- the party, after all, that was formed to get government off the backs of several million slaves. But today's Republican Party is a mixed lot: Some understand those principles; but others, as in the NY 23 race, are all but indistinguishable from their counterparts in the party of Obama. The problem in NY 23 was not that a third party entered the race. Rather, the party establishment botched things from the beginning, by picking a nominee who properly belonged in the Democratic Party, as her pathetic last-minute endorsement indicated, and that's why a third party entered the race -- with a novice of a nominee who nearly won despite the odds against him.

The question, therefore, is not whether tea party conservatism is a help or a hazard for Republicans seeking a return to power? To the contrary, it is whether the Republican Party is a help or a hindrance to the tea party movement? It will be a help only if it returns to its roots. The mainstream media, overwhelmingly of the Democratic persuasion, will continue to push Republicans to be "moderate," of course -- meaning "Democrat Lite" -- to which the proper response is: Why would voters go for that when they can get the real thing on the Democratic line?

www.politico.com...

One day, you will see the truth; you probably already do.

But you will never admit it.

deny ignorance

jw

reply to post by Southern Guardian


Surprisingly, I agree with S.G. (can't believe I said that!)

The "Tea Party movement" is definitely more Republican leaning than Democratic. I think where S.G. gets it wrong is that that movement has a distinct non partisan/Libertarian/Conservative bent to it that draws well with independents and Conservative Democrats alike. This makes them important to both major parties. It would be foolish to dismiss them as not relevant to the current political process. They have a lot of commonality with much of the public. They will be a swing group that will need to be factored in to Republican and Democratic election plans.

Originally posted by pavil
reply to post by Southern Guardian

 

Surprisingly, I agree with S.G. (can't believe I said that!)

...
It would be foolish to dismiss them as not relevant to the current political process. They have a lot of commonality with much of the public.

It appears you DISagree with S.G. if you believe it foolish to dismiss Tea Party Conservatives and if you believe they have much in common with "much of the public."

Think before you leap.

jw

reply to post by Janky Red


Yes, the same Neocons that continue in the current administration, and who are STILL thriving...

The point is, they have been exposed as the big GOVERNMENT SPENDERS that they are...and NOW their is a rift...between them and the libertarian/paleoconservatives that call themselves republicans.

reply to post by jdub297

Originally posted by jdub297

Originally posted by Hal9000
Sure. Have you ever criticized Cindy Sheehan for protesting against the Iraq war?

I met Cindy at a war protest. She is a publicity-hound hypocrite using her son and her family troubles for her own personal aggrandizement.

Let me see if I got this straight.

You say you are now against the current government, but still criticize someone who was in exactly the same position as yourself protesting against the previous government and expect everyone to look past the hypocrisy?

You advertise that the movement is not affiliated with any party, yet the article you posted even explains how they ousted one of your own from the REPUBLICAN party, and you still say the Tea Party Movement is not partisan?

Whatever it is that your smoking I expect is not covered by the healthcare bill.

[edit on 11/11/2009 by Hal9000]

Originally posted by Hal9000

Let me see if I got this straight.

You say you are now against the current government, but still criticize someone who was in exactly the same position as yourself protesting against the previous government and expect everyone to look past the hypocrisy?

Cindy Sheehan was not protesting the government. She was protesting one of the government's actions: War in Iraq.

Since her failed bid for election,she's spent most of her time on her blog touting "her book" and begging for money. No one listens to her radio show; do you?

She did not, and does not, complain about unfettered spending, government expansion into States' Rights, government merger with corporations, uncontrolled spending or record deficits, such as Octobers', of $174.6 billion. Right now, her biggest complaint is a lack of contributors to support her and her blogspot. (see: "cindys soap box")

You advertise that the movement is not affiliated with any party, yet the article you posted even explains how they ousted one of your own from the REPUBLICAN party, and you still say the Tea Party Movement is not partisan?

I don't advertise anything. The Tea Party movement is not affiliated with any party. There are many party lackeys who try to follow-on or otherwise sponge off of the growing public discontent, but they follow us.

If some idiot follows you, does that make YOU an idiot? (don't answer, I already know from reading your posts)

An no one "of our own" was ousted from anything. If you are referring to the RINO Scozzaffafaza, she chose to withdraw all by herself. Her subsequent endorsement (and your present one) speak loudly and clearly for themselves.

Oh, by the way, the NY-23 race IS NOT OVER, and Owens is about to get tossed out on his ass:

Recanvassing shows NY-23 race tightens even as Rep. Bill Owens is sworn into House seat

www.syracuse.com...

deny ignorance

jw

[edit on 12-11-2009 by jdub297]

Originally posted by jdub297

An no one "of our own" was ousted from anything. If you are referring to the RINO Scozzaffafaza, she chose to withdraw all by herself. Her subsequent endorsement (and your present one) speak loudly and clearly for themselves.

Oh, by the way, the NY-23 race IS NOT OVER, and Owens is about to get tossed out on his ass:

Still confused...you refer to Scozzaffafaza as a RINO...Republican in Name Only. Thus inferring that "Hoffman" is the "real" Republican? But Hoffman is not a Republican...he is a Tea Bagger? And Tea Baggers are not Republicans ...and the Republicans aren't Real Republicans either...the Tea Baggers are the "real Republicans"...but there not?

Still not getting it. If Tea baggers are not Republicans, but rather running against the republicans than the RINO tag is senseless. Understand?

Tea baggers can not simutaneously claim to be the "real Republicans" and not Republicans at all at the same time.

Also...If Hoffman's desperation play works out for him I will not post on ATS for a month...If you agree to do the same if his attempt fails?..as it surely will.

reply to post by maybereal11

Still confused...

Is that intentional or congenital?

you refer to Scozzaffafaza as a RINO...Republican in Name Only.

Correct. DeDe ran supporting Obama's agenda, Pelosi's health care bill, wanted a "public option/single payer" healthcare plan, and other socially liberal positions. She later endorsed the Democrat candidate. She was a "Republican" in name only.

That's not confusing, is it?

Thus inferring that "Hoffman" is the "real" Republican?

Because DeDe was a RINO (as we now both agree), (doesn't that sound like a Frank Zappa or Talking Heads song: "DeDe was a Rino"?), does not infer or otherwise indicate a belief in anything else, does it? Unless you are delusional and believe things that no one ever said, they just pop up in your head...

There was no Republican candidate in this race, real or imaginary. DeDe withdrew. (Have you imagined any other candidates in any other "parties?")

But Hoffman is not a Republican...he is a Tea Bagger?

Hoffman ran as a conservaitve. I cannot speak to your relationship with him. (Was it good for you, too?)

And Tea Baggers are not Republicans ...

I would imagine that some are. My guess is that there would be a few progressive, liberal and Democrat teabaggers out there, too. Those are personal choices.

and the Republicans aren't Real Republicans either...

Your logical reasoning is Frightening. But, go on....

Tea Baggers are the "real Republicans"...but there not?

I have no idea what that means.

There are many members of the Tea Party movement who are registered Republicans. I know several Democrats, Libertarians, and unaffiliated members as well.

None of the ones I know are "teabaggers."

Is it just your nature to rely on slurs to make a point, or are you trying to get on SG's good side? That doesn't work well, but it certainly makes your outlook and ability perfectly clear.

(I'm pretty sure the mods asked that we try to avoid name-calling. But, some members clearly cannot "argue" without such a crutch.)

Still not getting it.

I bet you get it. A lot.

If Tea baggers are not Republicans, but rather running against the republicans than the RINO tag is senseless. Understand?

No. What is wrong with calling a RINO a "RINO?"

I've seen many primary contests in which Democrats run against Democrats, even Republicans have been known to run against Republicans.
And if you're NOT Republican, why can't you run against a Republican, real or in name only? Democrats do it all the time. So do Independents, Libertarians and several other parties - remember Perot, Nader, Anderson?
(I bet you don't.)

Tea baggers can not simutaneously claim to be the "real Republicans" and not Republicans at all at the same time.

At this time, YOU are the only one making any such claims.

Also...If Hoffman's desperation play works out for him I will not post on ATS for a month...If you agree to do the same if his attempt fails?..as it surely will.

1. What "desperation play" are you talking about?

The vote count has not been completed. It will be over when the absentee ballots are counted. They are not even all in yet. The overseas absentee deadline is NEXT MONDAY. There are 10,000 outstanding absentee ballots.

It's "desperation" in your eyes that ALL the votes should be counted, rather than just "enough?"

2. I cannot agree to anything with someone who obviously cannot read, cannot understand what is written, sees imaginary candidates, and believes that counting 100% votes is a "desperation play."

Since posts such as the foregoing add nothing to ATS, what difference would 1 month make, and how should it matter? What would I gain?

Deny ignorance.

jw

[edit on 12-11-2009 by jdub297]

reply to post by maybereal11
Hey, look what I got you:

the article I linked!

Recanvassing shows NY-23 race tightens even as Rep. Bill Owens is sworn into House seat

Conservative Doug Hoffman conceded the race in the 23rd Congressional District last week after receiving two pieces of grim news for his campaign: He was down 5,335 votes with 93 percent of the vote counted on election night, and he had barely won his stronghold in Oswego County.

As it turns out, neither was true.

Now a recanvassing in the 11-county district shows that Owens’ lead has narrowed to 3,026 votes over Hoffman, 66,698 to 63,672, according to the latest unofficial results from the state Board of Elections.

The new vote totals mean the race will be decided by absentee ballots, of which about 10,200 were distributed, said John Conklin, communications director for the state Board of Elections. Under a new law in New York that extended deadlines, military and overseas ballots received by this coming Monday (and postmarked by Nov. 2) will be counted. Standard absentee ballots had to be returned this past Monday.

Jefferson County, home of Fort Drum and the Army's 10th Mountain Division, distributed 2,299 absentee ballots for the special election. As of this week, 1,303 had been returned but not counted, Eaton said. He said the county will begin counting the absentee ballots early next week.

www.syracuse.com...

Now, all you have to do is find a grown-up to read and explain it to you.

Deny ignorance.

jw

Originally posted by maybereal11
Tea baggers can not simutaneously claim to be the "real Republicans" and not Republicans at all at the same time.

Exactumundo. Star for you my good sir.

This is the logic that JD here can't see. The article is proof that the TPM are purifying their party that being the REPUBLICAN party. I know it is hard for you to connect the dots JD, because Fox news did not spell it out for you. They aren't going to because they are trying to fool you and everyone else. The reason is to try to re-invent the republican party without the Bush connection.

I have no doubt that your intentions are altruistic and by all means continue with protesting the government. I am not trying to keep you from doing that. I am trying to explain to you what people like glenn beck are trying to do and in my opinion taking advantage of people.

I hope you will see the logic and be able to reason for yourself.

reply to post by jdub297


Hey jdub...sorry about the "teabagger" thing, no offense intended. I was unaware it was some kind of slur. I will take your word for it, because frankly I am afraid to google and find out what it means.

As far as my challenge...I just assumed since you said the following with such confidence that you were willing to back it up...No big deal though. I understand that sometimes you just post stuff without believing it.

Oh, by the way, the NY-23 race IS NOT OVER, and Owens is about to get tossed out on his ass:

As far as the whole TPM (I'll try the acronym to be safe) ..

Conservatives, Dems, libertarians and Independants? ...

They are backed by the "club for growth" There heroes?...
www.americanthinker.com...

The only political figures for whom there was a visible shred of professed admiration were Ronald Reagan, Sarah Palin, Michele Bachmann, and Joe Lieberman. Sarah Palin was roundly regarded as a Ronald-Reagan-style "rogue."

I have no doubt that there are folks who beleive they are part of a grass roots movement, but given the extreme right leanings of the TPM I tend to agree with the following...

en.wikipedia.org...

Allegations of "astroturfing" appeared in a Playboy article by Mark Ames and Yasha Levine in February 2009. The article was removed after libel claims, but no legal action materialized. The authors repeated and elaborated their allegations—that the tea party protests were a "carefully organized and sophisticated PR campaign . . . for the some of the craziest and sleaziest rightwing oligarch clans this country has ever produced," including the Koch family, Dick Armey and FreedomWorks—elsewhere. On October 3, 2009, David H. Koch confirmed the allegations, admitting to launching the Tea Party protest movement at an Americans for Prosperity sponsored summit in Washington D.C.

On April 9, 2009, the blog Think Progress claimed that most of the 2009 protests were conservative lobbyist-created "astroturf" projects and not spontaneous grassroots protests. Instead, Think Progress contended, the protests were nationally coordinated and organized by Americans for Prosperity and FreedomWorks. The story was picked up in a New York Times op-ed column by economist Paul Krugman, writing that "the tea parties don't represent a spontaneous outpouring of public sentiment. They're AstroTurf (fake grass roots) events, manufactured by the usual suspects. In particular, a key role is being played by FreedomWorks, an organization run by Richard Armey."On April 15, Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi agreed, saying "it's not really a grassroots movement. It's astroturf by some of the wealthiest people in America to keep the focus on tax cuts for the rich instead of for the great middle class." On the same day, MSNBC host Rachel Maddow commented, saying that "corporate-funded PR shops and lobbying groups have done a lot of the organizing and promotion for these events. That's controversial because it's astroturfing. It's disguising a formal top-down organized paid for things as if it's some spontaneous grassroots event."

[edit on 12-11-2009 by maybereal11]

[edit on 12-11-2009 by maybereal11]

reply to post by maybereal11
(As for your offer, you based it on a false premise. You assume I care whether you post. Says a lot about YOU, though, doesn't it?)

Wow! "Wikipedia" is your idea of authority?

Do you check the cartoons, too? I hear that "Sesame Street" had a blurb on FOX last week, but you already saw that, didn't you?

As for "American Thinker," thanks for the link, and I hope you found them as insightful as I:

Monday, I went to Birmingham and Atlanta and saw for myself. I asked and asked and asked questions of people of all ages, both black and white, male and female, former Republicans and former Democrats, seemingly of very diverse socioeconomic situations ... .

The Tea Party messages are clear and strident.

Party operatives? Not welcome. Political candidates? Keep your mouths shut and your ears open. Prefer a D or an R after your name? Not here, not on our time, or on our dime.

The clear message: This is the people's movement. Outsiders, opportunists, and party pols are vehemently not invited. Want a voice in this groundswell, bottom-up oriented movement? Fine. All comers welcome to pitch in, get involved, stand up to tyranny, and do your own thing. Just don't try to hijack the people's movement for personal gain. Like our grandparents' generation, these folks can spot disingenuousness a mile away. They don't suffer fools or counterfeit passions.

www.americanthinker.com...

Guess we won't be seeing the likes of you, then.

As for their "support" coming from anyone else:

The uncompromising message in the Tea Party movement to politicians of all stripes is clear: You work for us, and you have betrayed our trust.

The anger wasn't only about the amount of money spent for unpopular causes, but also against the waste and fraud being perpetrated with hard-earned taxpayer money. Several angered taxpayers stressed the need for term limits to keep opportunistic pols from using public office to enrich themselves.

When I asked Tea Partiers about expenses for the events, I was hit with one resounding answer: "We pay for everything ourselves." A point made over and over again by various responders was, "There's no ACORN here. We don't soak the taxpayers for our protests." There seemed to be quite a lot of resentment over any groups of protesters using tax dollars to support their personal causes.

Can't say that about moveon, or Organize for America, or ACORN, et al.

Legitimacy? Republican?

And it is not likely to fizzle the day after elections are held because these folks are entirely self-motivated. None were persuaded by political operatives or stipends. Nor were they given professionally manufactured signs and led by hand to show up at the rally.

Scary, right? I hope so.

If this was your thread, I'd give you star and flag for that link.

You go back to your cartoons and wikis.
(no wonder Obama is so confident he can get anything he wants out of you)

Deny ignorance! Sheep.

jw

Originally posted by pavil
Maybe people will stop dismissing the polictical clout of this new movement. It will be a force to be reckoned with. It is very motivated, media and tech savvy and gets it point out quicker than either of the two major parties can or have.

The days of them being laughed at, sneered and derided are over. Now they need the National Figure to focus the movement. That will be hard as it has a very Individual/Libertarian bent to it.

The big problem now will be TPINOs. Tea Partiers In Name Only. Look for both major parties to try and cater/copy them.

This is so true it is not even funny.

This is what one of the founders of Green Peace warned about
in the Great Global Warming Swindle.

He said the Green movement got hijacked by communists.

His evidence was there too.

Both parties will try to insert their agendas, and if they cannot
insert agents they will try to discredit the movement and make
it look bad.

They will use all the old tactics and more.

As one of the Rockefeller's said long ago, competition is a sin.

As the funding arm of CFR we see what he paid for as we are
the recipients of it.

If they cannot hijack the movement they will try the Agent provocateur
method that we sometimes even see right here on ATS, and other
forums as well.

Good Luck to you all !

reply to post by jdub297



I thought you would enjoy the article...Honestly and sincerely, that is why I linked it. It seemed to written in the same voice as yourself...at one moment declaring the TPM as a melding of both GOP and Dems discontented with washington and the next moment declaring SARAH PALIN and MICHELLE BACHMAN heroes...While all the while acting oblivious to the inherent conflict of those ideas.

As for the challenge... it wasn't about whether you cared if I post or not...it was about whether you were willing to back up the things that you post and you have answered that question with a resounding NO.

If your obtuse and vitriolic voice represents the general sentiment of the TPM, then I am sad for them. The country needs alternatives and a voice of spite shouting dishonest rhetoric, a party posing as grass roots while being funded and orchestrated by Club For Growth and other extreme right PACS...well it is precisely what cost the GOP the last election. The TPM movement is fast on it's way to becomming as credible as the Extreme Christian Right in the world of politics.

I genuinely hop that those who truly want the TPM to be something new and revolutionary either take a hold of the party or splinter off....because right now...it's not authentic and has a clear far right agenda.

Originally posted by maybereal11

It seemed ... at one moment declaring the TPM as a melding of both GOP and Dems discontented with washington and the next moment declaring SARAH PALIN and MICHELLE BACHMAN heroes...While all the while acting oblivious to the inherent conflict of those ideas.

Either you are oblivious to the Palin and Bachman's values and motivation, or you are afraid of strong women.

Your sentence otherwise is absolutely meaningless. At best, it is a non sequitur.

As for the challenge... it wasn't about whether you cared if I post or not...

What "challenge?" I recall a conditional "offer" of something with absolutely no value to me:

Also...If Hoffman's desperation play works out for him, [then]I will not post on ATS for a month...[but only]If you agree to do the same if his attempt fails?.

(parentheticals added for logical consistency)

I rejected your offer. I do not care if or what or when you post. It wasn't even an offer! It was conditioned on my participation in some joint adventure with you. NO. Hell No.

And it misrepresents the nature of the transaction. There is no "desperation play" on which to choose sides. There is a vote count that will not be complete for another week or so. Given that at least 4 county vote counts are admittedly fraudulent, how could anyone have blind faith in the outcome?

(You didn't read or understand the story, did you?)

it was about whether you were willing to back up the things that you post and you have answered that question with a resounding NO.

No it wasn't. I just copied it above.

How do you "back up" a news story you didn't write?. I claim no authority or ownership for the article, I just thought it fit here.

I certainly BELIEVE it, when the author cites NY state and campaign spokespeople as sources.

If your obtuse and vitriolic voice represents the general sentiment of the TPM, then I am sad for them.

Nothing in my posts is obtuse or vitriolic. Find a grownup to explain those words to you. (Your mommy or big sis will find my words plain and pacific.)

I do not speak for the TPM, but I can not understand how my "voice" could represent anyone's "sentiment."

You are not sad for anyone; you are a facetious poseur.

The country needs alternatives and a voice of spite shouting dishonest rhetoric, a party posing as grass roots while being funded and orchestrated by Club For Growth and other extreme right PACS...well it is precisely what cost the GOP the last election.

Is that a sentence or a brain fart? What does it mean?

The TPM movement is fast on it's way to becomming as credible as the Extreme Christian Right in the world of politics.

I genuinely hop that those who truly want the TPM to be something new and revolutionary either take a hold of the party or splinter off....because right now...it's not authentic and has a clear far right agenda.

I doubt that anyone in the TPM cares how anyone on ATS perceives their credibility viv-a-vis ANY party, past or present. It is truly sui generis.

You "hop" no such thing, genuinely or disingenuously.

Why would a committed conservative "splinter off" from what many, like you, already consider a "splinter movement?" And why would they walk away from "far right" policies if they are truly "conservative?"

(Funny how some people can use so many words to say so little, isn't it?)

Deny ignorance.

jw

Why do we elect???Why not have a lottery system?Makes too much sense to me.How about throwing out the lobbyist for real change??

In the lottery system you might actually get an honest person.I am sick of these corrupt political hoars.When the country first started we ran the goverment...Now they run us!!!!

reply to post by maybereal11

Maybe you just can't understand tht there ARE alternatives to the two major parties. Othrwise, this makes NO sense whatsover:

at one moment declaring the TPM as a melding of both GOP and Dems discontented with washington and the next moment declaring SARAH PALIN and MICHELLE BACHMAN heroes...While all the while acting oblivious to the inherent conflict of those ideas.

You think using Bachman and Palin are some sort of sign of indecision or schizophrenia?

Look at what liberal sources say (as opposed to voices in your head):

In many ways, Michele Bachmann is the ideal political creature of the Tea Party era. Her path to power doesn't lie in moving up the GOP leadership ladder, but in ignoring it entirely, drawing her power more from cable TV hits than committee assignments.
…
Her statements are sometimes debatable, occasionally incendiary, always quotable. In October, she told conservative bloggers at the Heritage Foundation that she refused to "cower in fear," and worry about media chatter. "They're irrelevant," she said of mainstream journalists. "And I don't play by their rules."
Her target audience, and core constituency, is the outraged conservative voter who feels powerless in the Obama era. And they're listening.
…
"Polarizing people are double-edged swords, and I think that on balance ... she's hurting the Republican Party," says veteran Democratic consultant Jennifer Palmieri.

www.cnn.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow"> www.cnn.com...

Or what about Sarah Pailn?

Many people regard Sarah Palin as a punch line. That's too easy. In fact, she's more of a threat. If the Republican Party had half a mind, they would look at Palin's history of party divisiveness, polarization and destruction and take heed.

www.salon.com...

You either do not read what you post, or do not understand it.

Neither makes your posts much of a contribution.

Deny ignorance!

jw

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
reply to post by jdub297

 

This isnt a movement away from the two parties. This is, as Hal had stated, a battle for who gets control over the republican party, and the DC meet up between teaparties and republicans should have added to that fact.

Only people who have no thoughts of their own are unable to see that neither party reflects the ideology of every liberal and conservative.

Only those who have tasted and enjoyed the narrow-minded "us v. them" Kool-Aid doubt true dissent and question the legitimacy of those who refuse to blindly follow some party "line."

Even the Democrats are losing true Progressives:

While much attention has been paid to the feud between the Fox News Channel and the White House, the Obama administration is now facing criticism of a different sort from Ms. Maddow, Keith Olbermann and other progressive hosts on MSNBC, who are using their nightly news-and-views-casts to measure what she calls “the distance between Obama’s rhetoric and his actions.”

While they may agree with much of what Mr. Obama says, they have pressed him to keep his campaign promises about health care, civil liberties and other issues.

“I don’t think our audience is looking for unequivocal ‘rah-rah,’ ” said Ms. Maddow, who calls herself a liberal but not a Democrat.

The spectacle of Democrats sniping at one another is not new, but having a TV home for it is. MSNBC — sometimes critically called the “home team” for supporters of Mr. Obama — has even hit upon the theme with a promotional tagline, “pushing back on the president,” in commercials for “Hardball,” Chris Matthews’s political hour.

www.nytimes.com...

Fakirs, all, according to the logic of so many like yourself.

What will all the sheep do when the shepherd no longer leads the pack? Follow the Judas goat, sip more Kool-Aid.
NEVER think for yourself.
(You've got that part down, though.)

Seriously though we can get both the republicans and the teapartiers dancing together and you'll still proclaim this movement as third party and against both parties. Please.....

So what does that make people like Maddow? Fake? Liars? Pawns?

Independent thinking is not party-bound, and owes neither an allegiance.

There are none so blind ... .

Deny ignorance.

jw

reply to post by jdub297


I assign the same credibility and veracity to all of your ranting vitriolic responses as I do this gem or yours...

Originally posted by jdub297
Oh, by the way, the NY-23 race IS NOT OVER, and Owens is about to get tossed out on his ass:

How is that bit of foresight working out for you?

In retrospect I think you are representitive of much of the Tea Party Movement...arrogant, spiteful and an inherent disconnect with both the voters and reality. Pawns for the Club for Growth with Fox News running Public Relations.

Your failed arrogant prediction above sums it up nicely for me...