By the time activists started arriving at the foot of the Capitol around 8:30 a.m., it was clear no Republican leader could stay away.

There is a crisis on the horizon for national Republican leadership. Events are beyond the control of John Boehner, Eric Cantor, Mitch McConnell and Michael Steele. The bees have begun to swarm and it will be very difficult to get them back in the hive.

To be sure, the tea party movement has its fringe elements, as did the revolt against British tyranny, which the establishment of its day disparaged. So too does the Obama administration, some of whom have already resigned. The basic question, however, is what does the movement stand for? What are its principles?

And on that, the contrast with the Obama vision is stark: However much confusion there might be on specific issues, which is to be expected, the broad principles are clear. The tea party movement stands for limited constitutional government. At its rallies, on hand-written sign after sign, that was the message repeatedly seen. These are ordinary Americans -- Republicans, Independents, and even Democrats -- who want simply to be left alone to plan and live their own lives. The don't want "community organizers" to help empower them to get more from government.

But they do need to be organized to bring that about -- to get government off their backs. And the Republican Party should be the natural vehicle toward that end -- the party, after all, that was formed to get government off the backs of several million slaves. But today's Republican Party is a mixed lot: Some understand those principles; but others, as in the NY 23 race, are all but indistinguishable from their counterparts in the party of Obama. The problem in NY 23 was not that a third party entered the race. Rather, the party establishment botched things from the beginning, by picking a nominee who properly belonged in the Democratic Party, as her pathetic last-minute endorsement indicated, and that's why a third party entered the race -- with a novice of a nominee who nearly won despite the odds against him.

The question, therefore, is not whether tea party conservatism is a help or a hazard for Republicans seeking a return to power? To the contrary, it is whether the Republican Party is a help or a hindrance to the tea party movement? It will be a help only if it returns to its roots. The mainstream media, overwhelmingly of the Democratic persuasion, will continue to push Republicans to be "moderate," of course -- meaning "Democrat Lite" -- to which the proper response is: Why would voters go for that when they can get the real thing on the Democratic line?

Originally posted by pavil
reply to post by Southern Guardian

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Surprisingly, I agree with S.G. (can't believe I said that!)

...
It would be foolish to dismiss them as not relevant to the current political process. They have a lot of commonality with much of the public.

Originally posted by jdub297

Originally posted by Hal9000
Sure. Have you ever criticized Cindy Sheehan for protesting against the Iraq war?

I met Cindy at a war protest. She is a publicity-hound hypocrite using her son and her family troubles for her own personal aggrandizement.

Still confused...

you refer to Scozzaffafaza as a RINO...Republican in Name Only.

Thus inferring that "Hoffman" is the "real" Republican?

But Hoffman is not a Republican...he is a Tea Bagger?

And Tea Baggers are not Republicans ...

and the Republicans aren't Real Republicans either...

Tea Baggers are the "real Republicans"...but there not?

Still not getting it.

If Tea baggers are not Republicans, but rather running against the republicans than the RINO tag is senseless. Understand?

Tea baggers can not simutaneously claim to be the "real Republicans" and not Republicans at all at the same time.

Also...If Hoffman's desperation play works out for him I will not post on ATS for a month...If you agree to do the same if his attempt fails?..as it surely will.

Recanvassing shows NY-23 race tightens even as Rep. Bill Owens is sworn into House seat

Conservative Doug Hoffman conceded the race in the 23rd Congressional District last week after receiving two pieces of grim news for his campaign: He was down 5,335 votes with 93 percent of the vote counted on election night, and he had barely won his stronghold in Oswego County.

As it turns out, neither was true.

Now a recanvassing in the 11-county district shows that Owens’ lead has narrowed to 3,026 votes over Hoffman, 66,698 to 63,672, according to the latest unofficial results from the state Board of Elections.

The new vote totals mean the race will be decided by absentee ballots, of which about 10,200 were distributed, said John Conklin, communications director for the state Board of Elections. Under a new law in New York that extended deadlines, military and overseas ballots received by this coming Monday (and postmarked by Nov. 2) will be counted. Standard absentee ballots had to be returned this past Monday.

Jefferson County, home of Fort Drum and the Army's 10th Mountain Division, distributed 2,299 absentee ballots for the special election. As of this week, 1,303 had been returned but not counted, Eaton said. He said the county will begin counting the absentee ballots early next week.

Oh, by the way, the NY-23 race IS NOT OVER, and Owens is about to get tossed out on his ass:

The only political figures for whom there was a visible shred of professed admiration were Ronald Reagan, Sarah Palin, Michele Bachmann, and Joe Lieberman. Sarah Palin was roundly regarded as a Ronald-Reagan-style "rogue."

Allegations of "astroturfing" appeared in a Playboy article by Mark Ames and Yasha Levine in February 2009. The article was removed after libel claims, but no legal action materialized. The authors repeated and elaborated their allegations—that the tea party protests were a "carefully organized and sophisticated PR campaign . . . for the some of the craziest and sleaziest rightwing oligarch clans this country has ever produced," including the Koch family, Dick Armey and FreedomWorks—elsewhere. On October 3, 2009, David H. Koch confirmed the allegations, admitting to launching the Tea Party protest movement at an Americans for Prosperity sponsored summit in Washington D.C.

On April 9, 2009, the blog Think Progress claimed that most of the 2009 protests were conservative lobbyist-created "astroturf" projects and not spontaneous grassroots protests. Instead, Think Progress contended, the protests were nationally coordinated and organized by Americans for Prosperity and FreedomWorks. The story was picked up in a New York Times op-ed column by economist Paul Krugman, writing that "the tea parties don't represent a spontaneous outpouring of public sentiment. They're AstroTurf (fake grass roots) events, manufactured by the usual suspects. In particular, a key role is being played by FreedomWorks, an organization run by Richard Armey."On April 15, Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi agreed, saying "it's not really a grassroots movement. It's astroturf by some of the wealthiest people in America to keep the focus on tax cuts for the rich instead of for the great middle class." On the same day, MSNBC host Rachel Maddow commented, saying that "corporate-funded PR shops and lobbying groups have done a lot of the organizing and promotion for these events. That's controversial because it's astroturfing. It's disguising a formal top-down organized paid for things as if it's some spontaneous grassroots event."

Monday, I went to Birmingham and Atlanta and saw for myself. I asked and asked and asked questions of people of all ages, both black and white, male and female, former Republicans and former Democrats, seemingly of very diverse socioeconomic situations ... .

The Tea Party messages are clear and strident.

Party operatives? Not welcome. Political candidates? Keep your mouths shut and your ears open. Prefer a D or an R after your name? Not here, not on our time, or on our dime.

The clear message: This is the people's movement. Outsiders, opportunists, and party pols are vehemently not invited. Want a voice in this groundswell, bottom-up oriented movement? Fine. All comers welcome to pitch in, get involved, stand up to tyranny, and do your own thing. Just don't try to hijack the people's movement for personal gain. Like our grandparents' generation, these folks can spot disingenuousness a mile away. They don't suffer fools or counterfeit passions.

The uncompromising message in the Tea Party movement to politicians of all stripes is clear: You work for us, and you have betrayed our trust.

The anger wasn't only about the amount of money spent for unpopular causes, but also against the waste and fraud being perpetrated with hard-earned taxpayer money. Several angered taxpayers stressed the need for term limits to keep opportunistic pols from using public office to enrich themselves.

When I asked Tea Partiers about expenses for the events, I was hit with one resounding answer: "We pay for everything ourselves." A point made over and over again by various responders was, "There's no ACORN here. We don't soak the taxpayers for our protests." There seemed to be quite a lot of resentment over any groups of protesters using tax dollars to support their personal causes.

And it is not likely to fizzle the day after elections are held because these folks are entirely self-motivated. None were persuaded by political operatives or stipends. Nor were they given professionally manufactured signs and led by hand to show up at the rally.

at one moment declaring the TPM as a melding of both GOP and Dems discontented with washington and the next moment declaring SARAH PALIN and MICHELLE BACHMAN heroes...While all the while acting oblivious to the inherent conflict of those ideas.

In many ways, Michele Bachmann is the ideal political creature of the Tea Party era. Her path to power doesn't lie in moving up the GOP leadership ladder, but in ignoring it entirely, drawing her power more from cable TV hits than committee assignments.
…
Her statements are sometimes debatable, occasionally incendiary, always quotable. In October, she told conservative bloggers at the Heritage Foundation that she refused to "cower in fear," and worry about media chatter. "They're irrelevant," she said of mainstream journalists. "And I don't play by their rules."
Her target audience, and core constituency, is the outraged conservative voter who feels powerless in the Obama era. And they're listening.
…
"Polarizing people are double-edged swords, and I think that on balance ... she's hurting the Republican Party," says veteran Democratic consultant Jennifer Palmieri.

Many people regard Sarah Palin as a punch line. That's too easy. In fact, she's more of a threat. If the Republican Party had half a mind, they would look at Palin's history of party divisiveness, polarization and destruction and take heed.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
reply to post by jdub297

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This isnt a movement away from the two parties. This is, as Hal had stated, a battle for who gets control over the republican party, and the DC meet up between teaparties and republicans should have added to that fact.

Only people who have no thoughts of their own are unable to see that neither party reflects the ideology of every liberal and conservative.

Only those who have tasted and enjoyed the narrow-minded "us v. them" Kool-Aid doubt true dissent and question the legitimacy of those who refuse to blindly follow some party "line."

Even the Democrats are losing true Progressives:

While much attention has been paid to the feud between the Fox News Channel and the White House, the Obama administration is now facing criticism of a different sort from Ms. Maddow, Keith Olbermann and other progressive hosts on MSNBC, who are using their nightly news-and-views-casts to measure what she calls “the distance between Obama’s rhetoric and his actions.”

While they may agree with much of what Mr. Obama says, they have pressed him to keep his campaign promises about health care, civil liberties and other issues.

“I don’t think our audience is looking for unequivocal ‘rah-rah,’ ” said Ms. Maddow, who calls herself a liberal but not a Democrat.

The spectacle of Democrats sniping at one another is not new, but having a TV home for it is. MSNBC — sometimes critically called the “home team” for supporters of Mr. Obama — has even hit upon the theme with a promotional tagline, “pushing back on the president,” in commercials for “Hardball,” Chris Matthews’s political hour.

www.nytimes.com...

Fakirs, all, according to the logic of so many like yourself.

What will all the sheep do when the shepherd no longer leads the pack? Follow the Judas goat, sip more Kool-Aid.
NEVER think for yourself.
(You've got that part down, though.)

Seriously though we can get both the republicans and the teapartiers dancing together and you'll still proclaim this movement as third party and against both parties. Please.....

So what does that make people like Maddow? Fake? Liars? Pawns?

Independent thinking is not party-bound, and owes neither an allegiance.

There are none so blind ... .

Deny ignorance.

jw

Originally posted by jdub297
Oh, by the way, the NY-23 race IS NOT OVER, and Owens is about to get tossed out on his ass: